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Thread: OC of Pepper Spray or a Tazer

  1. #1
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    Does Virginia law require you to open carry pepper stray or tazers? In other words, are they considered concealed weapons if they are not open carried? Can they even be concealed at all considering VA only allows permits for concealed handguns?

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    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.
    I was looking in the wrong place. Since VA concealed carry law does not specifically mention Pepper Spray or Tazers then it's safe to assume they are legal correct?


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    Try this site on Taser Law:

    http://www.taser.org/laws.html

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    acrimsontide wrote:
    Try this site on Taser Law:

    http://www.taser.org/laws.html
    So in VA, if a felon possesses a Taser, they become a superfelon?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Your fine unless your a felon.


    At one time the concealed weapons laws said something like designed to propel a projectile of any kind....

    That was changed to It's current version:
    designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material;

    Every year some fool in the GA tries to change it but so far, they haven't been able to. You'd be surprised how many LEO's still think the Taser is illegal to carry.

    I carry mine all the time as well as Bear spray. It gives me options!

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    Your fine unless your a felon.


    At one time the concealed weapons laws said something like designed to propel a projectile of any kind....

    That was changed to It's current version:
    designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material;

    Every year some fool in the GA tries to change it but so far, they haven't been able to. You'd be surprised how many LEO's still think the Taser is illegal to carry.

    I carry mine all the time as well as Bear spray. It gives me options!
    What about this? If I ever got a taser it would be this one.
    http://www.taser.com/PRODUCTS/CONSUMERS/Pages/C2.aspx

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    Your fine unless your a felon.


    At one time the concealed weapons laws said something like designed to propel a projectile of any kind....

    That was changed to It's current version:
    designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material;

    Every year some fool in the GA tries to change it but so far, they haven't been able to. You'd be surprised how many LEO's still think the Taser is illegal to carry.

    I carry mine all the time as well as Bear spray. It gives me options!
    What about this? If I ever got a taser it would be this one.
    http://www.taser.com/PRODUCTS/CONSUMERS/Pages/C2.aspx
    It's like a Farm Boss chainsaw. A homeowners saw. In the newer Tasers, they cut the wattage. According to them, to make them more effective. Bull @#$%! They did it to redice their liability because of a few deaths.

    The Taser isn't magic. Even with mine, you have to get a good hit in muscle with the probes the right distance apart (Firing from 7 feet is about perfect).

    Cut the wattage and no matter what you do to the T waves (which is debatable) you cut the effectiveness.

    That's why many Departments have gone to the stinger.

    As to bear spray Vs Regular pepper......you just never know



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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    What about the carrying of an expandable baton like an ASP? Can a civilian carry one legally as an intermediate weapon? What about handcuffs? can a civilian detain someone until LEO's get there to take care of someone or do you have to hold them at gunpoint and hope they don't get squirrely?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:

    Bull @#$%! They did it to redice their liability because of a few deaths.
    What citations or factscan you provide that shows tasers werespecifically attributed to causing deaths? I have taken a instructors level course for the X-26 (non-civilian model)and can tell you that there is a lot of mis-information being thrown around about deaths, similar to what was being thrown around about OC in the 1990's. You first have to understand what the taser specifically does in order to understand what it doesn't do.


    The Taser isn't magic. Even with mine, you have to get a good hit in muscle with the probes the right distance apart (Firing from 7 feet is about perfect).
    While it is true that you would be better off with effective probe hits from that distance, you can still achieve NMI at amuch closer rangethan that. Additionally, you can still hit them with a drive stun, which is very effective as far as I am concerned. I guess it depends on what model you are referring to.
    Cut the wattage and no matter what you do to the T waves (which is debatable) you cut the effectiveness.
    What model taser are you speaking about?
    That's why many Departments have gone to the stinger.
    While many departmentsthat I am aware of have brought the stingerinto the fray, I am not aware of any that have gone solely to them.




    As to bear spray Vs Regular pepper......you just never know



    I can't find the video right now but I have seen a clip of a black bear in Alaska getting tased by a LEO and it was very effective. Ran off like a bolt of lightning after it was over. Obviously, there are OCsprays that also have their place and can be veryeffective.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Flintlock wrote:
    peter nap wrote:

    Bull @#$%! They did it to redice their liability because of a few deaths.
    What citations or factscan you provide that shows tasers werespecifically attributed to causing deaths? I have taken a instructors level course for the X-26 (non-civilian model)and can tell you that there is a lot of mis-information being thrown around about deaths, similar to what was being thrown around about OC in the 1990's. You first have to understand what the taser specifically does in order to understand what it doesn't do.

    I don't have any and don't think the Taser caused them. But Taser reduced the wattage anyway which I assume is butt covering. They are famous for that.
    I understand very well what it does and doesn't do!



    The Taser isn't magic. Even with mine, you have to get a good hit in muscle with the probes the right distance apart (Firing from 7 feet is about perfect).
    While it is true that you would be better off with effective probe hits from that distance, you can still achieve NMI at amuch closer rangethan that. Additionally, you can still hit them with a drive stun, which is very effective as far as I am concerned. I guess it depends on what model you are referring to.

    True but if you hit fat with a short spread, it is a crap shoot. The reason a jamb tase works is because it is jammed into areas with high muscle or bone!
    I have the M26 and use XP cartridges.
    Cut the wattage and no matter what you do to the T waves (which is debatable) you cut the effectiveness.
    What model taser are you speaking about?
    I'm talking about the X26
    That's why many Departments have gone to the stinger.
    While many departmentsthat I am aware of have brought the stingerinto the fray, I am not aware of any that have gone solely to them.

    Better check on the Kanadians!




    As to bear spray Vs Regular pepper......you just never know



    I can't find the video right now but I have seen a clip of a black bear in Alaska getting tased by a LEO and it was very effective. Ran off like a bolt of lightning after it was over. Obviously, there are OCsprays that also have their place and can be veryeffective.

    I've seen it and also talked to a Park Ranger that had seen a bear tased. Said it worked fine. I think I'll reserve MY taser for city folks and keep the BFR for bears.

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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    What about the carrying of an expandable baton like an ASP? Can a civilian carry one legally as an intermediate weapon? What about handcuffs? can a civilian detain someone until LEO's get there to take care of someone or do you have to hold them at gunpoint and hope they don't get squirrely?
    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

    As far as aconcealed weaponit could be questionable as to whether or not it could be considered "like kind".
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    What about the carrying of an expandable baton like an ASP? Can a civilian carry one legally as an intermediate weapon? What about handcuffs? can a civilian detain someone until LEO's get there to take care of someone or do you have to hold them at gunpoint and hope they don't get squirrely?
    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

    As far as aconcealed weaponit could be questionable as to whether or not it could be considered "like kind".
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    mobeewan wrote:
    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation,
    As far as aconcealed weaponit could be questionable as to whether or not it could be considered "like kind".
    I guess the above is the key phrase. Open Carry is a must!!
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    So I can OPEN CARRY an ASP? How about just wearing my old "bat belt" (LE belt with holster, ASP, cuffs, flashlight and pepper spray)? Is it illegal for a citizen to posess or carry any of these items? The ASP isn't a "spring stick", it is just an expandable baton, that is opened by inertia. No springs involved.

    I debate asking a local deputy about it, but I don't want to carry and of the above mentioned intermediate weapons illegally.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    MSC 45ACP wrote:

    I debate asking a local deputy about it, but I don't want to carry and of the above mentioned intermediate weapons illegally.
    never give a cop a chance to say no... it's not a spring stick if there are no springs. Carry it all.

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    sectorsight wrote:
    MSC 45ACP wrote:

    I debate asking a local deputy about it, but I don't want to carry and of the above mentioned intermediate weapons illegally.
    never give a cop a chance to say no... it's not a spring stick if there are no springs. Carry it all.
    http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96392


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    nova wrote:
    sectorsight wrote:
    MSC 45ACP wrote:

    I debate asking a local deputy about it, but I don't want to carry and of the above mentioned intermediate weapons illegally.
    never give a cop a chance to say no... it's not a spring stick if there are no springs. Carry it all.
    http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96392
    I'm shocked!
    An honest answer. 99 Fenix can't be with the Sheriffs Department.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    There is almost an answer... Thanks for the link. Being a former LEO, I have been well-trained in the use of the ASP and the 4 D-cell flashlight (anyone remember "three from the ring"?) before the ASP was in the field. What I would like to know is: Can I legally carry an ASP, pepper spray and handcuffs? A Simple YES or NO would suffice. Bonus points for furnishing references as Virginia law seems rather murky on these points...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  19. #19
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    Regarding the "murkiness" of Virginia law, some of that "murk" comes from the legal principle that anything not prohibited is permitted. Just as open carry is legal in Virginia since it's not mentioned in the Virginia Code, if these other items aren't addressed, then carrying them ergo must be legal.

    And that is notwithstanding some overzealous protector of the peace believing that only he and his ilk are permitted to carry and use the tools of his trade.

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