oc/cc and prescription meds question

Ruckus · May 7, 2009

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Does anyone have any knowledge, insight, or references on the legalities of gun ownership, cc, and oc and how it applies when one is being PRESCRIBED various drugs?
I dunno, I saw some snippet on Lou Dobbs or some cable news show a couple weeks ago and they said Obama was considering nationalizing private medical information and prescription drug history to deny citizens the right to buy/own a gun. One example I remember was that they said if you EVER were prescribed a prescription drug like oxycontin, you might not be able to buy/own a gun. I don’t know how accurate the report was, or even if I understood it correctly, but it has made me mull over some hypothetical situations concerning prescriptions and gun ownership, cc, and oc.

Let’s hypothetically assume a person who suffers with lots of physical pain and has a recurring prescription for some pain management drug. He may not take it regularly, but has it for when necessary. He has enough common sense to not transport, cc, or oc a firearm while under the influence, but would the mere fact that he has a prescription put him on a slippery slope as far as cc and oc is concerned? Is there an official prescription list or drug class that nullifies your right to cc or oc?

SpringerXDacp · May 8, 2009

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Ethan_Frome wrote:

Does anyone have any knowledge, insight, or references on the legalities of gun ownership, cc, and oc and how it applies when one is being PRESCRIBED various drugs?
I dunno, I saw some snippet on Lou Dobbs or some cable news show a couple weeks ago and they said Obama was considering nationalizing private medical information and prescription drug history to deny citizens the right to buy/own a gun. One example I remember was that they said if you EVER were prescribed a prescription drug like oxycontin, you might not be able to buy/own a gun. I don’t know how accurate the report was, or even if I understood it correctly, but it has made me mull over some hypothetical situations concerning prescriptions and gun ownership, cc, and oc.

Let’s hypothetically assume a person who suffers with lots of physical pain and has a recurring prescription for some pain management drug. He may not take it regularly, but has it for when necessary. He has enough common sense to not transport, cc, or oc a firearm while under the influence, but would the mere fact that he has a prescription put him on a slippery slope as far as cc and oc is concerned? Is there an official prescription list or drug class that nullifies your right to cc or oc?

Ethan, this is MCRGO's opinon (yes, they are lawyers) on taking on meds and carrying:

[align=left]I read in this month’s MCRGO ask the Lawyer (the drunk driver case), that you cannot carry while under the influence of a controlled substance. I take prescription pain pills every day for a bad disk in my back. My only restriction from my doctor is lifting. I can drive, work, etc., while on these pills, but the way I read this, I am not legal.

A:
The law (MCL 28.425k) does not say that a person cannot have a concealed pistol after taking a controlled substance. The law says that a person cannot have a concealed pistol while “under the influence” of a controlled substance. If the pain medication affects you to the extent that it affects your ability to walk, talk and reason, you should not be carrying a weapon. If all it does is reduce your pain, you are not “under the influence”. AA.[/align]
And,

[align=left]I live in Kent County and am applying for a concealed pistol license. Kent County requires a ‘mental health’ form signed by a doctor certifying that the applicant has no mental illness. My doctor refuses to sign the form for anyone. I take medication for anxiety and am concerned that there will be misinterpretation or misunderstanding if/when this subject comes up. Is it likely I will have to appear in front of the board? If so, what are my chances of the board understanding that I take the medication for social anxiety, and have no mental illness?

A:
MCRGO filed suit against the Kent County Concealed Weapons Licensing Board, the Kent County Clerk, and the Kent County Sheriff in 2003 to challenge the use of this and other of their forms not authorized in the law. In December of 2005, the Chief Judge of Kent County found in favor of MCRGO and ordered the County to stop using their Mental Status Verification form and Name Change and Previous Address form. The Judge found they violated the language and intent of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act and declared the forms void and unenforceable.

You may have to go before the board. The legal definition of 'mental illness' in the concealed carry law is "a substantial disorder of thought or mood that significantly impairs judgment, behavior, capacity to recognize reality, or ability to cope with the ordinary demands of life, and includes, but is not limited to, clinical depression." If your anxiety disorder meets that definition, you are not eligible for a concealed carry permit. If it does not meet that definition, you are eligible. Whether or not you take medication is irrelevant. You are not required to disclose your medication unless it bears on an existing mental illness.

Q:
When my father died last year I was depressed and my doctor put me on medication, I soon decided that I did not want to be medicated and stopped taking the drug. With the help of my family, I worked through my grief and I am not currently depressed. Do I have to disclose this episode of depression to the board when I apply for a concealed carry permit?

A:
Sometimes I get an easy question. This is an easy one. The question on the CPL application asks if you “currently” have a mental illness. If you do not currently have a mental illness, answer the question NO. You do not have to volunteer that you were depressed in the past.[/align]

Ruckus · May 9, 2009

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Springer, thank you so much for the info. It was very helpful and good to know.

stephgrinage23 · May 9, 2009

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I think under HIPPA they can't use your med records for background check purposes...i think in the mental illness concern one would have to have been institutionalized, hospitalized,etc.

Let's say for instance with the oxycontin thing... this is a drug usually prescribed for pain like while recovering from surgery, for a limited period of time...or for someone who has a debilitating injury and must take around the clock (again usually for a limited period of time and then they will be prescribed something else for pain control)

(i'm a certified pharmacy tech, so drug questions are right up my ally)

Xanax- okay, hypothetical situation... you are prescribed this medication usually for anxiety/panic attacks.... a person may use this for a short period of time, maybe not even every day, only when really necessary...some people are prescribed this for instance when dealing with things like death of a close relative, divorce, etc.

Anti-depressants...again like Xanax..can be used for a limited amount of time in a person's life..for instance, i was on an anti-depressant when i was a teenager because i was very depressed and emotional and going through a traumatic event (i was very sick in high school, and at one point was told by a doctor that i may not live past the age of 18)

Also anti-depressants are used sometimes for people who are recovering alcoholics. Women who have been raped may be prescribed an anti-depressant for a time...also women who are suffering from post partum depression, or perhaps any person going through certain life circumstances (again divorce, death of a loved one, miscarriage, loss of employment, foreclosure, etc)

see what i'm saying?

this should be a case by case type thing if BO wants to include med records, and he would have to amend HIPPA....unless of course we have nationalized health cae, then the govt would of course have access to med records and would have access to all of that and be able to use that against someone applying to own a weapon (assuming by that point hand guns are still legal to own/carry)

Nutczak · May 9, 2009

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I think denying firearm ownership because of legal prescription drug use would not be possible, I had an employer say they could not hire me due to the prescriptions I take for my wrecked back, neck, sternum, shoulders Etc, Etc, Etc. I suggested they talk to an attorney first. I got an apology and got hired by that company. Is a diabetic disallowed becuase they need insulin daily?

And I did have an overzealous police officer threaten forced blood tests against my will and license loss over my legally prescribed prescriptions. I warned him that he is stepping into very dangerous territory and to consult with a superior before making any stupid moves.
I was not driving when this encounter happened, he was arguing with a friend of mine about forcing blood tests for DUI suspicionwith drugs besides alcohol(not probable cause, but suspicion) and my "Friend" brought me into the conversation and told him while pointing at me"he takes enough to tranq. an elephant daily, if it does not affect his driving skills, how is it illegal?"

And the FFA has no problems with me flying single engine airplanes with passengers while taking my medications.
BUT! my medication does not cause euphoric side-effects or do I lose any of mental or physical acuity when taken as prescribed. My currentdosage would probably kill someone that has not been using opiate medications daily for the last 12-13 years.

No it is not Oxycontin, butit is a similar time-release opiate. Oxycontin was tried, but I was unable to function due to the side effects, and it did nothing to take the edge off the pain.

I can not function as a normal adult without my medications to take the edge off the pain! the real ironic part!! the injuries were caused on 2 different occasions, One by a drunk driver, and the other by an elderly driver with epilepsy that caused the accidents I was involved in. Why were they allowed to drive?

SigSauer · May 9, 2009

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I am facing the same questions regarding applying and receiving a CPL due to medical situations thanks to a driver that plowed me while I was sitting at a stop light. Your HIPPA rights do not apply here. Here's what I understand - There is an FBI background check that includes medical records. They will be looking for evidence of drug abuse and mental illness. It's not a question of which medications or treatments you have been prescribed, but more importantly, the diagnoses made. Check the requirements, they seemed pretty clear to me.

Nutczak · May 10, 2009

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SigSauer wrote:

Here's what I understand - There is an FBI background check that includes medical records. They will be looking for evidence of drug abuse and mental illness. It's not a question of which medications or treatments you have been prescribed, but more importantly, the diagnoses made. Check the requirements, they seemed pretty clear to me.

Drug abuse, and taking medicinecation legally prescribed by your physician to treat you fora medical condition are two totally different things.

Just becuase somelegally prescribed drugs are commonly abused by addicts does not mean that you or I are acting in an illegal manner.

Lets look at it this way,just becauseyou use spray paint to paint something, is that illegal or a right limiting factor because some kid huffed paint to get high?:shock:

Do you have a link to this information about the background checks? I have been buying firearms from dealers and havng NICS checks done everytime with no issues whatsoever. So I am obviously legal to own and posess.

My inuries that led to my legal prescribed useof narcotic pain relieving medication;
Hit head on at freeway speeds in a Jeep CJ-7, I wentend over end with a few side flips and pirouettes about 7 times, Destroyed my lower back. surgery required.
Hit head on at an inersection, injured my neck, then a few weeks later hit from the rear while at a dead stop whilebehind a Semi hauling a large cat dozer,I was able to get mostly out of the way and missed getting caught in the middle. it further destroyed my back and injured my neck, Surgey needed for both, and both repairs failed within months
Drunken neighbor pissed off at the world (got fired for being drunk at work, go figure), swinging a 22-ounce framing hammer at me for no reason that I have yet to figure out,
I took hits in the sternum, collarbone and ribs before getting him disarmed and subdued before the po-po finally showed (in a Non-carry state, otherwise it would have had a very different outcome) And thengetting charged for defending myself against him! (later dismissed in court, but 20% of my cash bail was kept, nice huh?)

pdidinpain · Oct 18, 2009

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stephgrinage23 wrote:

I think under HIPPA they can't use your med records for background check purposes...i think in the mental illness concern one would have to have been institutionalized, hospitalized,etc.

Let's say for instance with the oxycontin thing... this is a drug usually prescribed for pain like while recovering from surgery,WRONG, IF YOU READ ABOUT OXYCONTIN IT SPECIFICLY SAYS NOT TO USE AFTER SURGURY!! THIS DRUG IS FOR CRONIC PAIN AND FOR OPIATE TOLERENT PATIENTS WITH A ONGOING PAIN PROBLEM!!! LIKE A BAD BACK!
for a limited period of time.. AGAIN ONGOING NOT SHORT PERIOD OF TIME!
.or for someone who has a debilitating injury and must take around the clock (again usually for a limited period of time and then they will be prescribed something else for pain control) LIKE DEGENTIVE DISC, OR A BACK PROBLEM SUCH AS 5 BLOWN DISCS AND WOULD PROBABLY NEED MEDS EVEN AFTER A OPERATION, SO NO SENSE IN THE OPERATION IF THE MEDS WORK!

(i'm a certified pharmacy tech, so drug questions are right up my ally)

Xanax- okay, hypothetical situation... you are prescribed this medication usually for anxiety/panic attacks.... a person may use this for a short period of time, maybe not even every day, only when really necessary...some people are prescribed this for instance when dealing with things like death of a close relative, divorce, etc.

Anti-depressants...again like Xanax..can be used for a limited amount of time in a person's life..for instance, i was on an anti-depressant when i was a teenager because i was very depressed and emotional and going through a traumatic event (i was very sick in high school, and at one point was told by a doctor that i may not live past the age of 18)

Also anti-depressants are used sometimes for people who are recovering alcoholics. Women who have been raped may be prescribed an anti-depressant for a time...also women who are suffering from post partum depression, or perhaps any person going through certain life circumstances (again divorce, death of a loved one, miscarriage, loss of employment, foreclosure, etc)

see what i'm saying?

this should be a case by case type thing if BO wants to include med records, and he would have to amend HIPPA....unless of course we have nationalized health cae, then the govt would of course have access WHAT, WOULD? YOU WORK IN A PHARMACY WERE? MUST NOT BE IN MI! THE GOVERMENT HAS ACCESS TO ANY NARCOTIC PERSCRIPTIONS THAT YOU HAVE RECIEVED IN THE PAST OR CURRENTLY TAKE, WE HAVE A LIST THAT THE DRS AND PHARMACIST USE CALLED M.A.P.P NOW DONT QUOTE ME ON WHAT MAPP MEANS BUT IT IS SOMETHING LIKE MICHIGAN, SOMETHING, PHARMACITICAL PERSCRIPTIONS, SOMETHING TO THAT AFFECT.

to med records and would have access to all of that and be able to use that against someone applying to own a weapon (assuming by that point hand guns are still legal to own/carry)

SORRY ABOUT MY SPELLING IN A RUSH

PDinDetroit · Oct 19, 2009

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I have taken a prescription, written by a doctor, for years that addresses issues that I have had due to ADD, which are minor at best given the Gov't definitions. It is an anti-anxiety/anti-depression med that helps certain types of ADD and I seriously thought would stop the issuance of my CPL. It did not affect that process, although I was ready to go to the Gun Board to discuss it if caused a rejection.

pdidinpain · Oct 19, 2009

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Good for you, i am glad it didnt affect you, and i just wanted to correct the pharmisist, because the advise given about the meds from her was way off. I am glad you were ready and didnt have anyproblems! So what ya cc'ing?

PDinDetroit · Oct 19, 2009

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S&W M&P 9 or 45, depends on the day, OC in Fobus Paddle Holster, CC in Galco IWB, both fit both just fine, although I find the 9 easier to carry due to weight. I just need to find a heavier/better supported holster for the 45.

I OC my Ruger GP 100 .357 Magnum when out afield anywhere I may need protection from four-legged creatures other than dogs.

Michigander · Oct 19, 2009

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pdidinpain · Oct 20, 2009

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PDinDetroit wrote:

S&W M&P 9 or 45, depends on the day, OC in Fobus Paddle Holster, CC in Galco IWB, both fit both just fine, although I find the 9 easier to carry due to weight. I just need to find a heavier/better supported holster for the 45.

I OC my Ruger GP 100 .357 Magnum when out afield anywhere I may need protection from four-legged creatures other than dogs.

Damn, nice set up, i am fairly new to the site and do to some recent problems with druggies, b&es ect has hightened our desire for protection!! I have a sw40ve and the Mrs has a taurus pt111 9mm pro! we love them!

oc/cc and prescription meds question

Ruckus

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SpringerXDacp

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Ruckus

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stephgrinage23

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Nutczak

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SigSauer

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Nutczak

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pdidinpain

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PDinDetroit

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pdidinpain

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