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Thread: Ryan Frederick sentencing today

  1. #1
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    Based on what I know of the case, it seems to me he got shafted with the 10 yr recommended sentence, so lets hope the judge doesn't apply it all...

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    http://hamptonroads.com/2009/05/ryan...ling-detective


    CHESAPEAKE

    Following a jury’s recommendation, a Circuit Court judge today sentenced Ryan Frederick to 10 years in prison for the slaying of a Chesapeake detective during a drug raid.

    Judge Marjorie A.T. Arrington imposed the maximum sentence on the killer of detective Jarrod Shivers. His father, Jim Shivers, said the family wanted the toughest punishment for Frederick.

    Jack Bider, president of the Chesapeake chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police, said before the hearing that officers accepted the verdict delivered by the jury. Although the police may not agree with it, Bider said in a statement, “we can hope that the full sentencing guidelines of that verdict are fulfilled.”

    Frederick shot and killed Jarrod Shivers during a botched drug raid on his home in the city’s Portlock section in January 2008. A jury rejected a capital murder charge and found Frederick guilty of voluntary manslaughter in February.

    The highly charged trial included a special prosecutor, testimony from a jailhouse snitch and tearful family members. At the end, neither side was satisfied by the verdict.

    Jim Shivers said the family had hoped for a conviction of at least second-degree murder, and remain puzzled by the jury’s decision. “It was a disappointment,” he said.

    Defense attorney James Broccoletti said Frederick, who had a clean criminal record, will appeal.

    Shivers enlisted in the Navy after high school, started a family and joined the Chesapeake Police Department in 2000, rising to rank of detective. Shivers, 34, left behind his wife, Nicole, and three children, Brittnie, Ashleigh and Landon.

    Shivers’ name was added to the National Law Enforcement Memorial in Washington last month, his father said. A group of local officers is expected to attend ceremonies for their fallen comrades as part of National Police Week.

    I reckon the judge didn't see it like I saw it, which might be because she knew more than I did about the case.


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    The judge offered the jury more options than required and they chose one on the morelenient side but demanded it be carried out fully. A pretty fair sentence. Lets see how he behaves while incarcerated.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    If someone busts in my front door, they are a criminal and deserve what they get. Criminals sometimes wear badges and call themselves "Police" too......

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    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
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    Wooley wrote:
    I don't know guys. I truly think the CPD did some shady things here, but put yourself in that situation. Wouldn't you wait until your target came through the door and you could positively identify it?
    If multiple home invaders start battering down your door in the dark of night, is it a wise tactical decision to wait until there is no longer a physical barrier between you and them to resist them?

    Granted, I would be yelling for the rest of my family to get their guns and would warn the invaders off, they would hopefully respond that they were police. But I would have no safe way to verify that without getting shot.

    I would then respond that I did not beleive they were police, which would lead to an impasse and in all probability myself dead or at least in jail anyhow.











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    Regular Member crazydude6030's Avatar
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    Skeptic wrote:
    If multiple home invaders start battering down your door in the dark of night, is it a wise tactical decision to wait until there is no longer a physical barrier between you and them to resist them?
    I think i would invoke my duty to retreat

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    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
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    Wooley wrote:
    I guess the difference is hopefully getting an apology for kicking in the wrong door OR being a bunkie with ole Ryan.

    I have to ask though, multiple intruders or not, they have to come through the door to get you. You know they're coming through the door. They don't know where you are...so you choose a tactically sound place to to wait. Whats so wrong with that? You have the upper hand.
    Without a physical barrier between you and them, they can physically overwhelm you when you reload. Or they can toss in something flaming without ever presenting you an identifiable target. Or break additional doors and windows, presenting you with multiple choices.

    Since I am not NEO from The Matrix, I don't carry around a bag full of weapons with an endless supply of ammo and shoot them with both hands with perfect accuracy at multiple targets. Once there is no barrier, their chance of killing you has increased.

    Meanwhile, once the door is down, say you stop the first wave of assailants. But then the door is wide open for other attackers to come in at will. You have to maintain your focus on that door and can't check to see if they are trying to enter through another way, like a window or another door, without leaving your flank totally unprotected.

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    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
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    Wooley wrote:
    Your tactical awareness if perfect for Haifa Street. While I prepare for a lot, I think what you describe is an anomaly here short of Waco. And if that happens, you've got bigger problems.

    Skeptic, I don't disagree that badguys are much more armed, aware, and maybe even trained these days. Possible, not probable.

    If you will, lets say Ryan ducked back and yelled that he had a gun and called police. He might be gearing up to win a lawsuit right now.

    And I don't want to negate what you bring up...if it weren't the PD he could very well be dead himself.

    I still would have waited.
    I probably would have yelled that I had a gun too. Hopefully they would have stopped, hopefully the police would have been identifying themselves and a call to 911 would clear it up.

    But I know, and my attackers would know, that it could easily take 15 or 20 minutes for the police to respond to my house. I know this because that is how long it took to respond when someone was trying to batter my door down one night at 2 AM.

    Which is when I got a gun. So I know a little about how Mr. Fredrick felt.

    Unfortunately we have had some home invasion type breaks in out here, and in one of them the attackers identified themselves as police.

    Meanwhile, the true problem in this case is that they were breaking down someone's door because they thought he had a whole 6 pot plants. Is pot that much a scourge upon the world that we need to immediately act on the word of shaky informants as an excuse to kick in the doors suspected pot growers?

    I don't get along with most potheads, I don't like the smell, I don't like their behavior, I don't like the lack of focus and drive I see in many of the users of the drug. I don't think people should do it.

    But the war against it claimed a few more casualties in this case - a family missing a beloved member, another man's life destroyed.


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    I don't know what happened in this case nor do I know what went on in the mind of Mr. Fredrick or the police. However I do know that there were only losers in this case, no winners. A terrible waste of a life and the total screw-up of another person's life.

    Unlike Neo in the matrix when we pull the trigger we can't take the bullet back and can't undo the harm. Be careful of what and when you shoot.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Wooley wrote:
    So, would you identify your target firstor just fire blindly into the night? I'm not saying I wouldn't escalate to firing a weapon, just that I would at the very least see my target.
    He who hesitates... is dead.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Wooley wrote:
    Wylde, my arguement is that I, you, and probably most anyone in here could have waited long enough to identify their target AND announce the intension to revoke earth passes upon entry. He had 25 seconds to say he had a gun.

    I'm not arguing against protecting oneself. I'm saying he left out two important things I believe most of us would have done. 1) Warned that we were armed and 2) made sure of what we were shooting at.

    Why are all of you intelligent gun owners advocating shooting something that you can't identify?
    Because it's all so terribly subjective.

    Not to knock your side of the argument, but unless we are put in that situation (God help us) we will never know exactly what we are capable of or what Mr. Frederick was experiencing/feeling at the time.

    Everything any one of us here has to contribute is colored by our own prejudices and predilections.

    I don't know if I would "warn" someone that is trying to break down my door that I have a weapon. What indication would I have to believe that the assailant wouldn't take that as an invitation to fire through the door at me?

    There are too many variables, but in my house I would have to say that I would have acted similarly to Mr. Frederick, except I don't have any pot plants in my garage (or whatever).

    What would you yell if they identified themselves as police (which is suspect, at best, even now)? Do you yell "Cease and desist, I have a weapon aimed at the door!" I can't imagine how that my discourage them from charging, demolishing and destroying my home and property in further attempt to get to me. And what if they're lying and are only impersonating police? What if they say "Open up, police" and then they aren't? Do you think that someone intent on killing you and your family, capable of committing homicide to rob and rape is going to be deterred from their nefarious deeds by the threat of being also charged with impersonating an officer?

    Victims are in a lose-lose situation. If you present yourself to the door or a location to peacefully confer with the officers (near a door or window) what's to say that the sniper on the roof across the street doesn't put a bullet through you and your infant child (anyone remember Ruby Ridge?)

    I suppose in the instance that it is the police you would likely be better off to just let them destroy your home and property than put up a fight. I mean, that's what the government is looking for, a good little compliant, obedient proletariat.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    There has been atleast 3 crimes involving people inpersonating police officers in the last 3 weeks in the Hampton roads area. The first one from 2 weeks ago was a HOME INVASION, with a "no knock" style entry,a FAMILY was robbed and their car stolen, and just 2 days ago two different incidents of people being pulled over,by guys with "cop" cars complete with lights.

    No knock is stupid, the CPD should be sued by the detetives family for allowing such unsound tactics, and for what, a few pot plants, not machine guns or RPG's or even to much fertelizer, justa few freakin pot plants, WTF!

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    Also here in Chesapeake their has been two separate occasions in a couple weeks of someone impersonating police. CPD doesn't think they are linked. That means two different people. No one has been caught yet.

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    News said here some city's are reviewing how they get rid of old police stuff. Some city's destroy while others auction them off. Police lights included!

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Ryan Frederick got 7 years. That really means 5 years & 10 months. With timecredited for time servedhe will be out in 4 years and 4 months.

    Pretty steep sentence for defending yourself from a home assault.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    Ryan Frederick got 7 years. That really means 5 years & 10 months. With timecredited for time servedhe will be out in 4 years and 4 months.
    Eh? The news report on the first page of this thread says he was sentenced to 10 years, which really means 7 years served.


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    Wooley wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Pretty steep sentence for defending yourself from a home assault.
    Actually I think a jury of his peers believed that he did not defend his home against anything...at least their verdict would indicate such.
    It's not surprising, when the prosecution's first (and most important) "witness" was the deceased's widow, who was not there and did not witness anything.

    The defense objected before the trial to including her as a witness, but felt attacking her on the stand would do more damage than good.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    KBCraig wrote:
    Wooley wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Pretty steep sentence for defending yourself from a home assault.
    Actually I think a jury of his peers believed that he did not defend his home against anything...at least their verdict would indicate such.
    It's not surprising, when the prosecution's first (and most important) "witness" was the deceased's widow, who was not there and did not witness anything.

    The defense objected before the trial to including her as a witness, but felt attacking her on the stand would do more damage than good.
    Sounds like grounds for appeal to me...... It would have been fine for her to testify during the sentencing hearing but what did she have to offer during the trial except to prejudice the jury? Did she offer evidence of guilt somehow????

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    KBCraig wrote:
    Wooley wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Pretty steep sentence for defending yourself from a home assault.
    Actually I think a jury of his peers believed that he did not defend his home against anything...at least their verdict would indicate such.
    It's not surprising, when the prosecution's first (and most important) "witness" was the deceased's widow, who was not there and did not witness anything.

    The defense objected before the trial to including her as a witness, but felt attacking her on the stand would do more damage than good.
    Sounds like grounds for appeal to me...... It would have been fine for her to testify during the sentencing hearing but what did she have to offer during the trial except to prejudice the jury? Did she offer evidence of guilt somehow????
    Nope, they started the trial with a victim impact statement, which should have only been heard at sentencing.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    How is that not grounds for appeal, or even a mistrial?

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    marshaul wrote:
    How is that not grounds for appeal, or even a mistrial?
    I believe it should be grounds for appeal. It obviously won't be a mistrial, since that would have to be the ruling of the same judge who allowed the testimony in the first place.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Wooley wrote:
    Just let him peacefully serve out his sentence.
    You've demonstrated since day one you think Frederick deserves what he got. So, you can see why I'll take this with a grain of salt. I may have no ability to affect the outcome, but I will speak out against injustice.

  23. #23
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    You've go to watch them, be quick or be dead. Snake eyes in heaven, the thief in your head.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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