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Thread: Ok, so what would happen here...

  1. #1
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    Obama visited perhaps the best place in NoVA to get a burger, Rays Hells Burgers in Arlington on the 5th. I go here at least once a week and love it.

    Now, question being, what goes down with President + Open Carrying?

    Would you be "asked" to leave? Would you be "forced" to leave? What code would give the SS the privilege to remove you from the establishment?

    I mean, easiest thing would be for them to go to the owner "That guy needs to leave" and the whole thing would be over.

    I am just pissed because now every guy and his mother knows about this place! Line was insane today!

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    They would just say you were a threat to national security and would force you to leave. That would rule over any law.

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    hunter45 wrote:
    They would just say you were a threat to national security and would force you the leave. That would rule over any law.
    In all honesty, it would not be a "fight" I would care to engage in. I'd leave once asked to.

    But lets say you were just sitting there, strong side in, SS comes in does a quick scan, then the POTUS rolls in. WTF are you going to do?

    Then again, if you were concealing (RHB does not have a ABC License) no one would be the wiser.

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    hsmith wrote:
    hunter45 wrote:
    They would just say you were a threat to national security and would force you the leave. That would rule over any law.
    In all honesty, it would not be a "fight" I would care to engage in. I'd leave once asked to.

    But lets say you were just sitting there, strong side in, SS comes in does a quick scan, then the POTUS rolls in. WTF are you going to do?
    That's a good question. I think that the secret service was probably in there well before Obama got there to make a sweep of the place. But I suppose it's possible that the situation that you described can occur. I don't know what they would do, but I don't think I'd want to be in that situation.

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    Here's what I think would happen:

    The SS would take you to the ground, disarmed, tazed and toss you in a Federal cell for awhile. They do not ask questions. They do not care about your rights, you do NOT get to be armed anywhere near the President in such a situation. They WILL find some way to charge you for something.

    It would not matter of the President just showed up. You would not get to explain, nor would you be "asked to leave." You will just be gone.

    ~CharlesC

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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    Here's a situation where the owner of the restaurant should exercise his right to refuse service to anyone he wants..... if ya know what I mean.

    Now that would make the news.



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    CharlesC wrote:
    Here's what I think would happen:

    The SS would take you to the ground, disarmed, tazed and toss you in a Federal cell for awhile. They do not ask questions. They do not care about your rights, you do NOT get to be armed anywhere near the President in such a situation. They WILL find some way to charge you for something.

    It would not matter of the President just showed up. You would not get to explain, nor would you be "asked to leave." You will just be gone.

    ~CharlesC
    I doubt that they would do that if they found someone to be OCing before the president got there.

    I could seethe disarming parthappening if they found someone OCing after the president was there.

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    Just wait until one of the secret service guys print, and then yell HE'S GOT A GUN!!! and wait until everyone starts running around then make your discrete exit with your burger.

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    hsmith wrote:
    hunter45 wrote:
    They would just say you were a threat to national security and would force you the leave. That would rule over any law.
    In all honesty, it would not be a "fight" I would care to engage in. I'd leave once asked to.

    But lets say you were just sitting there, strong side in, SS comes in does a quick scan, then the POTUS rolls in. WTF are you going to do?

    Then again, if you were concealing (RHB does not have a ABC License) no one would be the wiser.
    I doubt that you have to worry about the SS doing a "quick" scan before the POTUS rolls in. If that did happen, you were carrying when the POTUS rolled in and the SS did not know about itheads would also roll including yours.

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    Well, some guy had enough time to throw two shoes at Bush, so I think you may have time to discreetly make an exit without drawing too much attention to yourself.

    If I were in that situation, I'd either stay until they left if I had nowhere to be, or either get the attention of the nearest agent and quietly explain the situation, and ask how I should proceed / exit.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Regarding the president being out and about in a public place....I wonder if we will ever have a president who carries a handgun? Either CC or OC, itwould be so cool.

    I wonder if we have ever had a pres who carried while in office?



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    HankT wrote:
    Regarding the president being out and about in a public place....I wonder if we will ever have a president who carries a handgun? Either CC or OC, itwould be so cool.

    I wonder if we have ever had a pres who carried while in office?

    I can tell you one thing- It wont be Obama

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    HankT wrote:
    Regarding the president being out and about in a public place....I wonder if we will ever have a president who carries a handgun? Either CC or OC, itwould be so cool.

    I wonder if we have ever had a pres who carried while in office?

    No doubt we have HAD presidents that carried, but they have absolutely 0 need to do so once they have SS protection.

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    CharlesC wrote:
    Here's what I think would happen:

    The SS would take you to the ground, disarmed, tazed and toss you in a Federal cell for awhile. They do not ask questions. They do not care about your rights, you do NOT get to be armed anywhere near the President in such a situation. They WILL find some way to charge you for something.

    It would not matter of the President just showed up. You would not get to explain, nor would you be "asked to leave." You will just be gone.

    ~CharlesC
    I wonder sometimes about how much longer till the Gov't approved black bags come out.

    ------------
    Gov't Croney: "I'm sorry I have no record of a 'Mr. Spectre' ever existing the the People's Republic of America."

    Mother: "But he is my son! I have a copy of his birth certificate."

    Gov't Croney: "Oh that 'Mr. Spectre'! Oh yes he was found to be an enemy of the state and was sent to a 'Education Center'. He has since changed his name to Obama Jr. He is much more 'personable' now."
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    It's a very real possibility.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    St. Elizabeth's has some very nice padded cells where they can hold"Federal Prisoners" indefinitely without trial or charges. Very Scary chit, there
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
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    They would probablytoss you in jail

    Imagineyou were going on a hunting trip in a few days "guns it case" and going about your own business checking into a hotel.

    Just look at Joseph Calanchini of Wyoming, They lockedhim up and ask questions later, and fully abused the law just to show Mr. Calanchini "who has the power".

    This guy wasn't even OCing, he was just doing what any normal person would do that was leaving for an international hunting trip.
    http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10292295

    He had torent guns on his hunting trip in South Africa.

    Prosecutors said ...they won't bring criminal charges against a man who carried guns in a case into a Denver hotel during the Democratic National Convention...
    ...He says he's relieved the case is closed but hasn't gotten back his guns or other personal items seized from his truck...
    http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Sep...Arrest,00.html

    Even after they dropped charges they still continued to abuseMr. Calanchiniby holding his guns.

    Theytreat the Constitution in such a way that allowsyour rightsto beinfringed upon "on the fly".

    Article II Section 13. of the Colorado Constitutionstates: The right of no person to keep and bear arms ...shall be called in question...

    Back to the point of this thread, in my opinion they would do a preliminarysweep of the area and "lock you up" till "they" decided it was time to let you out.


    "The constitution by itself is like - writing in the sand, unless youdefend it day and night, the wind, rain and men will trample it till you can no longer recognize what it says." - AB



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    hsmith wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Regarding the president being out and about in a public place....I wonder if we will ever have a president who carries a handgun? Either CC or OC, itwould be so cool.

    I wonder if we have ever had a pres who carried while in office?

    No doubt we have HAD presidents that carried, but they have absolutely 0 need to do so once they have SS protection.
    I'd guess that Teddy Roosevelt was one who still took some responsibility for his own protection. But was probably the last.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    OK, the best circumstance I can imagine would have been what happened when JFK was in the White House and wanted to get dinner at Durgin Park (Boston dining landmark). SS asked for the place to close up so POTUS & clan could eat there.

    Management called every radio station & newspaper in town and publically told SS & JFK they could either stand in line for a seat like everybody else of go pound sand.

    I understand JFK had whatever the cook at the family compound had fixed that night.

    Unfortunately, Obama & Biden cost the taxpayers several hundred thousand dollars for the motorcade, local cops time, and that SS did a sweep of the place before the Suburbans rolled up. It was polite, professional, but there was a check of everyone inside and passing by on the sidewalk. About the only thing that did not happen was the passing out of digital caneras so the faithful could take pictures.

    Do not believe that POTUS and VPOTUS walk among the commoners at will. Quite frankly, given that we are still at Security Level Yellow, I was amazed that POTUS and VPOTUS were permitted to be at the same location at the same time. (Imagine Pelosi's thoughts as that took place :shock.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    It seems to me that, assuming everything worked as it SHOULD, the state government would have every right to get nasty with the feds for harassing its residents for doing nothing wrong in accordinance with state or federal law. It would seem that the federal govt SHOULD have to give some sort of notice as to the president's whereabouts. It would seem that if the President could just roll up anywhere and force disarmerment that they could do so anywhere. (gun shows, gun shops, NRA sanctioned events, etc). Surely this COULD and maybe WOULD take place...but SHOULDN'T. If it were to happen and you had a RESPONSIBLE state government I would assume (I know, I know) that the state government would tell the feds to either follow a fair protocol or back off.

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    skidmark wrote:
    OK, the best circumstance I can imagine would have been what happened when JFK was in the White House and wanted to get dinner at Durgin Park (Boston dining landmark). SS asked for the place to close up so POTUS & clan could eat there.

    Management called every radio station & newspaper in town and publically told SS & JFK they could either stand in line for a seat like everybody else of go pound sand.

    I understand JFK had whatever the cook at the family compound had fixed that night.

    Unfortunately, Obama & Biden cost the taxpayers several hundred thousand dollars for the motorcade, local cops time, and that SS did a sweep of the place before the Suburbans rolled up. It was polite, professional, but there was a check of everyone inside and passing by on the sidewalk. About the only thing that did not happen was the passing out of digital caneras so the faithful could take pictures.

    Do not believe that POTUS and VPOTUS walk among the commoners at will. Quite frankly, given that we are still at Security Level Yellow, I was amazed that POTUS and VPOTUS were permitted to be at the same location at the same time. (Imagine Pelosi's thoughts as that took place :shock: ).

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    I was in a restaurant on Wilson Boulevard that day - as the surrounding streets got shut down and the motorcade passed by. When I found out why, I wondered too what would have happened.

    News reports made it sound like this was a spur-of-the-moment trip. I'm reasonably certain he wasn't channeling Michael Douglass (The American President), and that the SS had pretty thoroughly checked the place. It's rather clear that the news media was there, which every person in the place knew someone was coming in. And in this town, not every "celebrity" gets a news crew.

    So what would have happened if someone in there had been armed? I see possible scenarios -- you guess which is most likely:
    - SS sees someone open carrying; they wait until he leaves and POTUS/VPOTUS come in.
    - SS sees someone open carrying; they "persuade" him to leave and POTUS/VPOTUS come in -- open carrier never gets his gun back.
    - SS sees someone open carrying; they choose another restaurant

    And since I had been thinking about this, I'm thinking if this were to happen, except for the first scenario, we'd all know about it in short order.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    hsmith wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Regarding the president being out and about in a public place....I wonder if we will ever have a president who carries a handgun? Either CC or OC, itwould be so cool.

    I wonder if we have ever had a pres who carried while in office?

    No doubt we have HAD presidents that carried, but they have absolutely 0 need to do so once they have SS protection.
    A few weeks ago, I was at a fund raising dinner for my delegate, Mark Cole. I was open carrying at the time and another gentleman struck up a conversation with me. This guy is retired Secret Service and told me a story (sea story?) about accompanying Ronald Reagan on a trip to the U.K.He saidthe Secret Service was only allowed to bring ONE handgun into the U.K. with which to protect the President. So he goes up stairs to Reagan's quarters (he was staying at the Ambassador's residence) to assume his duties. Shortly after which, Reagan opens the door and says, "I think this might come in handy for you" and hands the agent a revolver. Guy said that Reagan carried after he had been shot during Hinkley's assasination attempt on him.

    Don't know how true this might be, but in my mind, I like to imagine President Reagan being like us in his attitude towards being responsible for our own defense.

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    What would I do? Continue eating. His arse can wait in line like everyone else.

    Now, what would happen? I'd prefer not to think about it.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    News reports made it sound like this was a spur-of-the-moment trip. I'm reasonably certain he wasn't channeling Michael Douglass (The American President), and that the SS had pretty thoroughly checked the place. It's rather clear that the news media was there, which every person in the place knew someone was coming in. And in this town, not every "celebrity" gets a news crew.
    And we know that news reports are accurate. Anyone remember when Jimmy Carter got out and walked along the parade route in during his inaguration and the fit that the SS had? Do not think for a moment that when Obama and wife got out and walked during his parade that it was a spur of the moment deal. His schedule is planned down to the minute and SS is well ahead of any thing he is going to do.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    It was pretty dumb to have POTUS and VPOTUS together, though. I wonder if Nancy is the one that suggested it?


    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    What would happen? If you're not caught, nothing! The SS can screw up like any other organization. During the presidential campaign, Sarah Palin gave a speech here in Carson City. For some reason, the SS didn't realize that Carson is a Republican stronghold and only brought in one metal detector for what turned out to be a huge crowd in a town with lots of CC permits. Just before the speech was to start, they just gave up, took down the detector and let everybody in. The SS spokesperson latersaid 'I doubt she's in much danger here'.

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