Common Sense rules in Carrying

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I, too have had occasion to take narcotic pain killers. I didn't carry. Why? Several reasons.

Pain killers can alter perception and judgment, possibly leading you to react or take action that you might not have otherwise have taken. Not a good situation. I've known people to take narcotic pain meds and undergo staggering changes in personality and perception, even become suicidal. Not good for someone like this to be carrying a gun. And I'm not sure you'll know how bad off you are, while you're in the middle of it.

If you ever shoot anybody, you're going to be tested for the presence of drugs, including narcotic pain killers. Most, if not all, states consider this "intoxication" and you're in deep doo-doo in both the criminal and civil court actions that are sure to follow.

I ceased the pain medication as soon as I was able and waited 24 hours after the last dose before I carried, and didn't do that until my spouse was confident I was "normal"

I'd go so far as to say people starting a course of pain medication should lock their guns up in such a manner as they CAN'T get access to them until they know how they react to this medication. Give them to a trusted friend or have a spouse change the combination on the safe until the reaction to the pain med is known. Don't take these medications lightly. I had an otherwise normal close relative go suicidal nearly a full day after an oral dose of a pain med was administered in the hospital. If she had access to her gun (coincidentally, it was in my safe, although not because we were concerned about the pain med) she could have done some real damage. As it was, the suicide attempt was unsuccessful. Couple of days later, everything back to normal. Doc said the reaction was extremely rare, but not unheard of, and no cause for concern as long as she avoided that pain med.

Be very careful until you understand how you will react to a narcotic pain medication. They aren't "controlled substances" for nothing.

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Only YOU know how the narcotic pain medications effect your body. No one else can possibly know your pain level or your level of "narcotic intixication". I was forced to retire from the service withmultiple spinal injuries.

I've had back surgery. I've also been on different pain medications since my original injury. I currently have 3 cysts (inoperable) in my lower spine that effect my lower body. Parts of my left leg are numb all the time. Sometimes, my leg goes completely numb. I also have an inoperable tumor inside a vertebra between my shoulder blades that pushes against the spinal cord sometimes. Sometimes, my left had goes numb. Guess what? I'm left-handed! I use a walking stick sometimes and it may slow me down .05 of a second to draw my USP 45 from my OC holster on my left hip.

In law enforcement, we wereactually trained to carry something in one hand all the time in the event you have a "short range" situation. if someone has the "drop" on you, you toss them something. 99 times out of 100, they will try to deflect it or catch it; ginving you enough time to draw and shoot your own sidearm. Try it sometime with a friend. How many of you PRACTICE drawing and shooting (with a CLEARED WEAPON of course. ) The aluminum "box" clipboardwith boarding forms and papers was very useful for this purpose.

I take narcotic pain medications on a schedule. I take just enough to "take the edge off" as Pagan mentioned earlier. I've been on the same dosage for more than a year. Some days are better than others; Sometimes I don't even go out because of the pain levels. After a day with Cub Scouts on a campout yesterday, I awoke to a very sore body.

I do not feelmy medicationsimpair my judgement at all. I go to the range regularly and attribute my slighty slowed reflexes to age, not to the effects of narcotics. My eyesight has gotten worse since my competitive shooting days. It is no longer 20/10. it has "degraded" to mere mortal status to about 20/20. I've found when I'm tired, in order to read small print, my arm isn't long enough to hold the item far enough away to read. I don't shoot every day anymore because I can't afford it. It was nice when Uncle Sam financed my shooting career.

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R a Z o R wrote:

Drugs raise the question of making rational judgements with completely functioning discernment abilities . Hallucinating and impared reactions can manifest with narcotics .

Do not carry .

No ...... peroid .

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Come on, those spotted purple monkey-lizards won't shoot themselves now will they???

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The only hallucination I ever had was the STARS I saw when I first injured my back. I've never had any hallucinations while on prescriptions.

I think YOU have sampled too many Magic Mushrooms. Oxycontin and vicodin do NOT cause hallucinationswhen taken as prescribed.

You are showing your ignorance and your ( )*( )

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MSC 45ACP wrote:

The only hallucination I ever had was the STARS I saw when I first injured my back. I've never had any hallucinations while on prescriptions.

I think YOU have sampled too many Magic Mushrooms. Oxycontin and vicodin do NOT cause hallucinationswhen taken as prescribed.

You are showing your ignorance and your ( )*( )

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You say that now... but wait until the purple spotted monkey-lizards begin telling you to do things.... then you'll think twice and wish you had a gun to shoot them with....

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

MSC 45ACP wrote:

The only hallucination I ever had was the STARS I saw when I first injured my back. I've never had any hallucinations while on prescriptions.

I think YOU have sampled too many Magic Mushrooms. Oxycontin and vicodin do NOT cause hallucinationswhen taken as prescribed.

You are showing your ignorance and your ( )*( )

Click to expand...

You say that now... but wait until the purple spotted monkey-lizards begin telling you to do things.... then you'll think twice and wish you had a gun to shoot them with....

Click to expand...

Who said I was unarmed?

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MSC 45ACP wrote:

Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

MSC 45ACP wrote:

The only hallucination I ever had was the STARS I saw when I first injured my back. I've never had any hallucinations while on prescriptions.

I think YOU have sampled too many Magic Mushrooms. Oxycontin and vicodin do NOT cause hallucinationswhen taken as prescribed.

You are showing your ignorance and your ( )*( )

Click to expand...

You say that now... but wait until the purple spotted monkey-lizards begin telling you to do things.... then you'll think twice and wish you had a gun to shoot them with....

Click to expand...

Who said I was unarmed?

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So you admit to the existence of the purple spotted monkey-lizards! HA!:lol:

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On the one hand, I know someone who is on prescription morphine and OCs all the time. I knew him before he started on the morphine and have been to the range with him several times since he started taking the medication. I can detect no difference in his physical or cognitive functions. I'd trust him with my life.

On the other hand, he is not you. As others have said, only you know how the medication affects you, so only you can make that call. If you have ANY doubts about it then your decision not to carry is a responsible one that we all must respect.

I know I do.

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Well, I am going to speak with my doctor tomorrow, and see what he thinks, as I don't believe they are affecting my ablity to reason, but if they were I probably wouldn't notice woud I? My wife doesn't believe that they are affecting me, so I am going to speak with my doctor, and the pharmacist, and get two opinions. I've noticed that the pharmacists tend to know a lot more about the medicines then the doctors that are prescribing them.

As I have stated before I really thank all of you for your input, and really do miss carrying, but want to make sure that I am 100% ok to do so before I put it on.

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Picture yourself answering this question in court, "Now at the time of the shooting, were you on any sort of medication?"

that would seal it for me.

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bomber wrote:

Picture yourself answering this question in court, "Now at the time of the shooting, were you on any sort of medication?"

that would seal it for me.

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Better to be in court than at your funural.

I am not saying it is a good idea, it is up to you to make that decision for yourself, but there are worse things than being in court.

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The simple answer is personal responsibility, if you don't feel in full control of your mind and body then you should be leaving your gun at home. The same answer goes for driving.

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I agree that it depends on how it effects you. Not going to denigrate anyone for making what to/for them is the most responsible decision.

I was on some narcotic pain killers following some surgery and than again following an injury. I only took enough to take the edge off. It didn't effect my judgment as I was perfectly able to do the most mentally technical aspects of my job. But wow it made me tired from time to time and the tired would come on suddenly. I would go from being fine to being hardly able to keep my eyes open in a matter of minutes. Good reason not to drive. However, I wasn't worried about carrying as it wasn't like a narcoleptic thing where I just suddenly fell over asleep.

Another consideration is state law. In MO, lawful use of a firearm for self-defense is an absolute defense to a criminal charge of possession/control of a deadly weapon while intoxicated be it on alcohol, properly obtained and ingested medication or other chemicals. Then with the castle doctrine, the BG is barred from a civil suit if the use of a lethal weapon is deemed justified.

So here, given the law and how the medication effects me, I am not concerned about carrying while on a therapeutic dose. That would not necessarily be true in other states or with another medication. And all that being said, I did not carry for a few days until I determined how the medication would effect me.

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You may not know while you're on them how badly you're being affected by these drugs. Don't take them lightly. Let a trusted friend or spouse provide input, even a veto, on carrying if they don't think you're "normal". Again, you might be far off "normal" and have no idea how far off you are.

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Different drugs affect different people in different ways. Just because a narcotic analgesic may make one person drowsy, euphoric, and cause them to lose fine motor skills, and perspective. does not mean it affects everyone the same way.

How do I know this? because I ingest enough morphine on a daily basis that would most likelykill people. it took 18 months for my physician to adjust the dosage to get the therapeutic affect without dilating side effects. I still drive, I snowmobile, I hunt and carry a firearm and I still fly single engine airplanes with the blessing of the FAA.

There are several different types of opiates, derivatives, and synthetic opiate-like drugs. they are not all the same, and again different people react differently when they are introduced to their metabolism.

I for instance, use morphine and Ihavezero effects that alter my perspective or motor skills, but theequivalent dosage of a similar synthetic opiate(Oxycodone) will knock me on my ass for hours and render me useless and unable to function.

I feel you should knowon your own if the drugs prescribed to you are affecting you in unwanted ways.

Some people have unwanted side-effects by ingesting MSG or NutraSweet that alters their perception and motor skills. It all depends on how the drug affects you and you alone need to determine that.

Do you feel euphoric? does it affect your perception and motor skills? If so, I would suggest avoiding a situation where a critical decision needs to be made. But by no means should you lose the right to defend yourself because of a legally prescribed , legally used medication has been ordered by your doctor to help with pain.

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a couple of percs or vicodin would not stop me from carrying. sure you get a little head and body high but that would defiantly not stop me from making a rational decision especially when it comes to self defense. BUT what would stop me from carrying is the fact that if i were ever in a position of having to use my firearm im sure the court would look down on me as a "drugged up dopey with a gun" or how ever the lawyer would twist it.

bottom line, its really up to you to either risk your physical life or your life in court. i would make my decision off the area i live in, how likely an attack is in the area im going, and of course how many pills i took that day and how i was feeling

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Also, a person in pain with a legitimate need of narcotics is going to be less affected than someone taking them for kicks. You should feel pretty much normal, not "high,"if you really need them and are taking appropriate doses and not also drinking or mixing them with other meds, etc.

That said, people are almost always more affected by alcohol/drugs than they realize, but you're the best judge of how you feel while taking the stuff. When in doubt, don't use the chainsaw...

-ljp

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I appreciate all the advice, and even the well-wishes in PM's. I have had surgery, and am no longer on any med's at all.

I chose not to carry while on the narcotics, and starrted carrying again when I no longer needed them, and having it on my side again feels good. In fact I just got back from a vacation with the family, and I carried in all the states where it was allowed,:celebrate but will post about that in the General forum when I have some time to breathe