kyle.huff
Regular Member
imported post
Okay, so here is my very unpleasant experience..
At approximately 17:45 on Friday, May 8th 2009, while shopping [location omitted - it is a store] in Longview Washington, I was standing in line waiting to purchase some deli meat and sandwich bread when I noticed two uniformed police officers emerge from a door situated near the end of the check-out aisle.
One officer began to proceed against the flow of the check-out line I was in, and the other officer seemed to go another direction. As the officer approached my position I stepped a little to the left to allow him to pass, at which point he was intently looking at my belt-line while bent over slightly - seemingly trying to see under my motorcylce jacket. At this point I stopped all movement as he was obviously interested with something regarding myself.
The officer said to me "Are you carrying a firearm?" I said "Yes sir.". The officer then asked "Are you a police officer?", I said "No sir, I have a concealed carry permit.", at which point the officer asked me where the firearm is, I told him it is on my belt on the right rear. The officer then told me to set my stuff on the counter, and then the officer removed my firearm from its holster without warning - then a second officer approached me from behind asked me to place my hands behind my back. I complied. The officer held my fingers together as he patted me down. Then the officer who first approached me asked where my wallet is. I told him it is in my left rear pants pocket. One of the officers then removed my wallet. The officer patting me down asked if I had any other weapons, I replied "No, but I do have a small screwdriver in my shirt pocket.".
As I was being patted down the officer who removed my firearm informed me that we will go outside to sort this out, and to leave my purchases here. He then changed his mind and said we will discuss this matter in the store security office - he then repeated that decision to the officer patting me down.
I was then escorted to the store security office hallway with my hands still being held behind my back. At this time a man wearing plain clothes and what looked like a bullet proof vest entered the security office hallway directly after us. I was then instructed to spread my legs, and a more thorough frisking took place by the officer who was holding my hands behind my back. The officer seemed to be spending a long time in the area of my motorcycle riding jacket - at which point I mentioned to the officer that the jacket is equipped with plastic plates for protection from a crash. He acknowledged in a manner that indicated to me he was aware.
After being frisked thoroughly I was escorted into a room about 3 feet to my right and was instructed to sit in the chair with my hands on my lap while they check my permit and "call in" my firearm. I complied. I was then asked for the location of my concealed carry permit. I informed the officer that it is my wallet which they removed from me.
At this point they asked me the caliber of my firearm, I informed them it is a .40 caliber. I was then asked if a round was chambered, and I informed the officers that yes, a round is chambered, the hammer is at rest, and the safety is off - and it is a double-action firearm. At this point I can hear one of the officers reciting the serial number of my firearm into a telephone or radio in a room behind the chair I was sitting in. I sat for about 5 minutes while they "called in" my firearm.
The officer who first approached me and removed my firearm then returned my firearm, my wallet and my CHL. He said my firearm is not stolen, and my CHL checks out. I believe it was at this point they the officer informed me they received a call about a man with a gun.
He then informed me that I need to conceal my weapon - I asked, is there law regarding this? He said yes, "a statute". He said they had an identical case a week ago.
The officer then asked if I have a tail-bag on my motorcycle. I said yes. He said "I know a tail-bag isn't secure" and he indicated I should place the firearm in the tail-bag. He added that he rides motorcycles, and he knows it is difficult to keep the firearm hidden. Then both officers agreed a shoulder holster may be a good solution.
I was then told I could go - at which point I asked the officer if he could write down the "statute" that I allegedly violated regarding the need to conceal my firearm at all times. He wrote down "RCW 9.41.270" and told me that the city attorney interprets that to include openly carrying a firearm...
I thanked the officers and wished them a good evening. I then proceeded to the checkout to pay for the items.
I did not place my firearm in the tail-bag of my motorcycle, because I only draw my weapon in public when in the defense against presently unlawful use of force against my self or against another.
Here is a link to the cited RCW (even though most of you know it): http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.270
That was the chain of events to the best of my recollection. Now, at the time the officer approached me and the entire time throughout the store, my firearm was completely concealed beneath my jacket. While on my motorcycle however it possible my firearm was exposed due to my short riding jacket and the forward leaning riding position of my particular motorcycle (read: a crotch rocket). So my guess is that the "man with a gun" call was prior to entering the store. In any event, I was not charged or given a citation, and I was never placed under arrest. But I very much dislike being treat like a criminal, having my firearm removed from me, searched, escorted through a store by armed officers with my hands behind my back and being told I am can only bare arms in secret..
Now, I know from reading the forums here many of you would have told the officer to remove his hands from your gun.. However, for me this was a very quick chain of events, and to my disadvantage; nearly all of my previous interactions with law enforcement were during the time I was a Firefighter/EMT and I am very much used to a different dynamic. In my little world of prior experience; either I am the Incident Commander on the scene, or law enforcement is. In this situation I - in an instinctual manner - deferred Incident Command to law enforcement. And by the time I came to my senses it was already over.
Completely besides the point - the firearm I was carrying is a Berreta 90-Two .40S&W Type F.
Also besides the point - I wish I knew who the person was from last week... I'd like to know his/her story..
[EDIT] Sorry about the title of this topic; I do not mean to infer open carry is illegal, my line of thinking was to the fact that the officers never witnessed me open carrying my firearm. So I was only allegedly open carrying, and to add "alleged" or "allegedly" I know adds a negative connotation to it, i wish I could change to topic title...
[EDIT] Corrected a spelling error.
[EDIT] fixed sentence that made no sense..
Okay, so here is my very unpleasant experience..
At approximately 17:45 on Friday, May 8th 2009, while shopping [location omitted - it is a store] in Longview Washington, I was standing in line waiting to purchase some deli meat and sandwich bread when I noticed two uniformed police officers emerge from a door situated near the end of the check-out aisle.
One officer began to proceed against the flow of the check-out line I was in, and the other officer seemed to go another direction. As the officer approached my position I stepped a little to the left to allow him to pass, at which point he was intently looking at my belt-line while bent over slightly - seemingly trying to see under my motorcylce jacket. At this point I stopped all movement as he was obviously interested with something regarding myself.
The officer said to me "Are you carrying a firearm?" I said "Yes sir.". The officer then asked "Are you a police officer?", I said "No sir, I have a concealed carry permit.", at which point the officer asked me where the firearm is, I told him it is on my belt on the right rear. The officer then told me to set my stuff on the counter, and then the officer removed my firearm from its holster without warning - then a second officer approached me from behind asked me to place my hands behind my back. I complied. The officer held my fingers together as he patted me down. Then the officer who first approached me asked where my wallet is. I told him it is in my left rear pants pocket. One of the officers then removed my wallet. The officer patting me down asked if I had any other weapons, I replied "No, but I do have a small screwdriver in my shirt pocket.".
As I was being patted down the officer who removed my firearm informed me that we will go outside to sort this out, and to leave my purchases here. He then changed his mind and said we will discuss this matter in the store security office - he then repeated that decision to the officer patting me down.
I was then escorted to the store security office hallway with my hands still being held behind my back. At this time a man wearing plain clothes and what looked like a bullet proof vest entered the security office hallway directly after us. I was then instructed to spread my legs, and a more thorough frisking took place by the officer who was holding my hands behind my back. The officer seemed to be spending a long time in the area of my motorcycle riding jacket - at which point I mentioned to the officer that the jacket is equipped with plastic plates for protection from a crash. He acknowledged in a manner that indicated to me he was aware.
After being frisked thoroughly I was escorted into a room about 3 feet to my right and was instructed to sit in the chair with my hands on my lap while they check my permit and "call in" my firearm. I complied. I was then asked for the location of my concealed carry permit. I informed the officer that it is my wallet which they removed from me.
At this point they asked me the caliber of my firearm, I informed them it is a .40 caliber. I was then asked if a round was chambered, and I informed the officers that yes, a round is chambered, the hammer is at rest, and the safety is off - and it is a double-action firearm. At this point I can hear one of the officers reciting the serial number of my firearm into a telephone or radio in a room behind the chair I was sitting in. I sat for about 5 minutes while they "called in" my firearm.
The officer who first approached me and removed my firearm then returned my firearm, my wallet and my CHL. He said my firearm is not stolen, and my CHL checks out. I believe it was at this point they the officer informed me they received a call about a man with a gun.
He then informed me that I need to conceal my weapon - I asked, is there law regarding this? He said yes, "a statute". He said they had an identical case a week ago.
The officer then asked if I have a tail-bag on my motorcycle. I said yes. He said "I know a tail-bag isn't secure" and he indicated I should place the firearm in the tail-bag. He added that he rides motorcycles, and he knows it is difficult to keep the firearm hidden. Then both officers agreed a shoulder holster may be a good solution.
I was then told I could go - at which point I asked the officer if he could write down the "statute" that I allegedly violated regarding the need to conceal my firearm at all times. He wrote down "RCW 9.41.270" and told me that the city attorney interprets that to include openly carrying a firearm...
I thanked the officers and wished them a good evening. I then proceeded to the checkout to pay for the items.
I did not place my firearm in the tail-bag of my motorcycle, because I only draw my weapon in public when in the defense against presently unlawful use of force against my self or against another.
Here is a link to the cited RCW (even though most of you know it): http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.270
That was the chain of events to the best of my recollection. Now, at the time the officer approached me and the entire time throughout the store, my firearm was completely concealed beneath my jacket. While on my motorcycle however it possible my firearm was exposed due to my short riding jacket and the forward leaning riding position of my particular motorcycle (read: a crotch rocket). So my guess is that the "man with a gun" call was prior to entering the store. In any event, I was not charged or given a citation, and I was never placed under arrest. But I very much dislike being treat like a criminal, having my firearm removed from me, searched, escorted through a store by armed officers with my hands behind my back and being told I am can only bare arms in secret..
Now, I know from reading the forums here many of you would have told the officer to remove his hands from your gun.. However, for me this was a very quick chain of events, and to my disadvantage; nearly all of my previous interactions with law enforcement were during the time I was a Firefighter/EMT and I am very much used to a different dynamic. In my little world of prior experience; either I am the Incident Commander on the scene, or law enforcement is. In this situation I - in an instinctual manner - deferred Incident Command to law enforcement. And by the time I came to my senses it was already over.
Completely besides the point - the firearm I was carrying is a Berreta 90-Two .40S&W Type F.
Also besides the point - I wish I knew who the person was from last week... I'd like to know his/her story..
[EDIT] Sorry about the title of this topic; I do not mean to infer open carry is illegal, my line of thinking was to the fact that the officers never witnessed me open carrying my firearm. So I was only allegedly open carrying, and to add "alleged" or "allegedly" I know adds a negative connotation to it, i wish I could change to topic title...
[EDIT] Corrected a spelling error.
[EDIT] fixed sentence that made no sense..
