Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Jury Duty in Detroit

  1. #1
    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    291

    Post imported post

    So I'm one of the lucky ones drawn this time. It's my second "Federal" call up downtown. I'll find out tonight if I have to post in the morning. The thing that bothers me the most is I won't be armed. Even if it's walking from the parking garage to the County building. I'm not real hip on leaving my weapon in my vehicle in a public garage. Too bad they don't allow you to check your weapon at the door and retrive it after your done with your business.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

  2. #2
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830

    Post imported post

    In AZ, they've got a secure storage lockerlaw, requiring lockers to be provided for sidearms and knives and things,in government owned buildings where you can't carry. It's not a bad idea to lobby for similar measures in Michigan.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  3. #3
    Regular Member pmcqueen37's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Dearborn Heights, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    246

    Post imported post

    Frank Murphy hall of Jusitce that sucks , no guns no cell phone, no bottled water either
    live every day like its your last cause one day you will be right

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Oakland County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    662

    Post imported post

    Michigander wrote:
    In AZ, they've got a secure storage lockerlaw, requiring lockers to be provided for sidearms and knives and things,in government owned buildings where you can't carry. It's not a bad idea to lobby for similar measures in Michigan.
    Sounds like AZ has got it all worked out. Would be nice to see MI adopt something similar.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    Veritas wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    In AZ, they've got a secure storage lockerlaw, requiring lockers to be provided for sidearms and knives and things,in government owned buildings where you can't carry. It's not a bad idea to lobby for similar measures in Michigan.
    Sounds like AZ has got it all worked out. Would be nice to see MI adopt something similar.
    Veritas, check out this thread I posted a while back. This is what happens to those who choose to lawfully carry, by statue, in a court house (not court room) in Michigan that's been prohibited by a court order.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/23954.html

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Oakland County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    662

    Post imported post

    I'm aware. I was saying it would be nice if there were a means to store your weapon at the courthouse, and pick it back up as you leave. Similar to AZ.

    lol If you're trying to coax me into carrying into a court room to test the law, I'm not biting. :-P

  7. #7
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445

    Post imported post

    Veritas wrote:
    I'm aware. I was saying it would be nice if there were a means to store your weapon at the courthouse, and pick it back up as you leave. Similar to AZ.

    lol If you're trying to coax me into carrying into a court room to test the law, I'm not biting. :-P

    Courtroom is illegal, but if you carry in the lobby of the Courthouse it is a contempt of court citation.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Oakland County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    662

    Post imported post

    Hence why I said it would be nice if you had a place to legally store your weapon at the "courthouse". I'm not suggesting that the Judge reach out his hand and hold onto our weapons while appear before him.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Jblack44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    291

    Post imported post

    Well I wasn't picked for a trial. They started out with 10 cases.7 of them pleaded out and I was sent home by 11:30.

    They have SEVERAL signs at the entrance of the building listing everything down to a unfolded paper clip that is banned from the building. I'm surprised your allowed to wear any clothes! Two seperate metal detectors at the entrance. It's funny though, there were probably 8 wayne county sheriffs in the lobby as well, all armed. In fact at one point there was an female officer in front of me while in the office that was bent over talking to a employee as I stood right behind her. Her weapon was VERY vulnerable lets just say. It's funny how their SA is so low. All they were doing was joking around everytime I saw them.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Oakland County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    662

    Post imported post

    I got seriously ticked at the Oakland County building (Pontiac) recently. Sparing many details, I had business there... so I arrived, went through the security checkpoint (no weapon... just personal effects and my cell phone) and got through no problem. I go to the County Clerks office and drop off some paperwork. About a week later, I learn that the paperwork I HAND DELIVERED was somehow misplaced. So I make the trek back out there to do it all over again.

    Anyone who's gone there during the day knows that parking can be a pain. So I had a decent little walk from my vehicle to the main entrance. I approach the security checkpoint, same as before (in fact, it's the same deputy as before), but this time he starts inspecting my cell phone. He's turning it all around, upside down and sideways, so I ask, "Is there a problem with my phone?" He asks, "Are you an attorney?" (I was wearing a suit because I had just left work for a bit to make this stop). I tell him I'm not and that I'm only going downstairs to the clerks office to drop off some paperwork. His response was "This is a camera phone and we don't allow camera's in the building." As he says this, the deputy right next to him is talking on HIS cell phone... and yes, it had a camera lens built into it. I asked him if I were an attorney if I were allowed to bring my phone, and he said yes. Apparently, as a taxpaying citizen you cannot.

    I didn't want to argue, but I felt compelled to ask when this rule came about. "For as far as I can tell", he says. "Really?", I say, "Because you're the one who let this phone in last week when I was here... and I got some GREAT pictures of the drinking fountain. Thank you for that." That's all I said... I turned and made the trek back to my vehicle just so I could drop my phone off. When I came back through again, the same deputy was still on his camera phone. I thought best to just bite my tongue and continue with my business.

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337

    Post imported post

    An interesting story written some time ago:

    [size=October 19, 1988: Officer Clarence Ratliff, Grand Rapids Police Department
    ][/size]

    JIM FINKELSTEIN Free Press Staff Writer

    October 20, 1988Detroit Free Press

    (MI) As Kent County's first female judge, Carol Irons was proud of being a role model for young women.

    "I think schoolgirls ought to have professional women as role models," she said in a 1985 interview. "No matter how equal we may be, we are not identical to men. Women often perceive things differently and that difference is very much needed in this field."

    Irons, 40, a Highland Park native who was unopposed for re- election this fall as a 61st District Court judge, was shot to death Wednesday at the Kent County Hall of Justice. Her estranged husband, a city police officer, was arrested.

    Irons attended Wayne State University Law School and was hired as an assistant Kent County prosecutor after graduating in 1977. Before entering school, she had been married and divorced in the Detroit area.

    Michigan Court of Appeals Judge David Sawyer, then Kent County prosecutor, said he had interviewed Irons in the law school's basement.
    "She had quite set ideas -- she was a firm believer in upholding the constitutional right of individuals," he said.

    Irons handled appeals for the Prosecutor's Office, Sawyer said. She became the office's first woman chief of a division when she was appointed to head the appellate division.

    Irons accomplished another first in November 1982, when she defeated Henry Smitter, a prominent lawyer, for a district judgeship. The vote was 25,254-23,921.

    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    89

    Post imported post

    pmcqueen37 wrote:
    Frank Murphy hall of Jusitce that sucks , no guns no cell phone, no bottled water either
    Yeah we were just there the other day...sucks... i think i feel more "naked" w/o my blackberry though... haha....and my mother, father, and myself all had to leave our guns in the car in the casino parking structure!

    Wayne county is all in all completely retarded...sorry if anyone is offended by my use of that word, but i couldn't think of a more suitable one.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    89

    Post imported post

    Jblack44 wrote:
    Well I wasn't picked for a trial. They started out with 10 cases.7 of them pleaded out and I was sent home by 11:30.

    They have SEVERAL signs at the entrance of the building listing everything down to a unfolded paper clip that is banned from the building. I'm surprised your allowed to wear any clothes! Two seperate metal detectors at the entrance. It's funny though, there were probably 8 wayne county sheriffs in the lobby as well, all armed. In fact at one point there was an female officer in front of me while in the office that was bent over talking to a employee as I stood right behind her. Her weapon was VERY vulnerable lets just say. It's funny how their SA is so low. All they were doing was joking around everytime I saw them.
    omg... some LEO's crack me up... i'm a female, not that strong, quite petite, and I'm quite sure if i wanted to i could overpower some of these out of shape/overweight/older cops and get their weapons from them if i wanted to....i'd never try, but that's what comes to mind whenever i see some of these guys....i'd like to see some of them have to "give chase" to anyone. lol

    when we went to FRHoJ the other day it was to meet with a PA to move forward with her case and press charges for a sexual assault that happened to my little sister in Dearborn...

    of cousre as we're all going through the detectors one of the officer's says to my dad..."your daughter looks really upset, tell her to cheer up" my dad said, "well she has a reason to be upset, she's hear to press charges for a sexual assault" and the officer said "you know, there are ways of going around the law to handle that kind of thing"

    lol THOSE are the LEO's i like.... um..officer, could you repeat that, and speak a little closer to the microphone please...

  14. #14
    Regular Member dfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Garden City/Barryton, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    100

    Post imported post

    stephgrinage23 wrote:
    pmcqueen37 wrote:
    Frank Murphy hall of Jusitce that sucks , no guns no cell phone, no bottled water either
    Yeah we were just there the other day...sucks... i think i feel more "naked" w/o my blackberry though... haha....and my mother, father, and myself all had to leave our guns in the car in the casino parking structure!

    Wayne county is all in all completely retarded...sorry if anyone is offended by my use of that word, but i couldn't think of a more suitable one.

    I believe the "casino parking structure" is also off limits.



    Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:

    1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian.


    2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

    3. Sports arena or stadium.

    4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

    5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

    6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more


    7. A hospital

    8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

    9. ACasino

    "Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above in 1 through 8.


    Parking lot for 1 - 8 is okay but not for 9.



    Correct me if I am wrong, I go to the casino all the time and hate having to leave it at home.

    Dave
    http://www.survivalfox.com/
    "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom". - John F. Kennedy, former U.S. President

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,544

    Post imported post

    dfox wrote:
    stephgrinage23 wrote:
    pmcqueen37 wrote:
    Frank Murphy hall of Jusitce that sucks , no guns no cell phone, no bottled water either
    Yeah we were just there the other day...sucks... i think i feel more "naked" w/o my blackberry though... haha....and my mother, father, and myself all had to leave our guns in the car in the casino parking structure!

    Wayne county is all in all completely retarded...sorry if anyone is offended by my use of that word, but i couldn't think of a more suitable one.

    I believe the "casino parking structure" is also off limits.*

    *

    Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:

    *1.* Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian.


    2.* Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

    3. Sports arena or stadium.

    4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

    5.* Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

    6.* An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more


    7. A hospital
    *
    8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

    9. A*Casino

    "Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above in 1 through 8.


    Parking lot for 1 - 8 is okay but not for 9.

    *

    Correct me if I am wrong, I go to the casino all the time and hate having to leave it at home.

    I don't see Casino at all in MCL 28.425o...

    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425o

    Do you?

    EDIT: Which makes me wonder why it's on my CPL.

  16. #16
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337

    Post imported post

    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    dfox wrote:
    stephgrinage23 wrote:
    pmcqueen37 wrote:
    Frank Murphy hall of Jusitce that sucks , no guns no cell phone, no bottled water either
    Yeah we were just there the other day...sucks... i think i feel more "naked" w/o my blackberry though... haha....and my mother, father, and myself all had to leave our guns in the car in the casino parking structure!

    Wayne county is all in all completely retarded...sorry if anyone is offended by my use of that word, but i couldn't think of a more suitable one.

    I believe the "casino parking structure" is also off limits.



    Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:

    1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian.


    2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

    3. Sports arena or stadium.

    4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises

    5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons

    6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more


    7. A hospital

    8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

    9. ACasino

    "Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above in 1 through 8.


    Parking lot for 1 - 8 is okay but not for 9.



    Correct me if I am wrong, I go to the casino all the time and hate having to leave it at home.

    I don't see Casino at all in MCL 28.425o...

    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425o

    Do you?

    EDIT: Which makes me wonder why it's on my CPL.
    Basically, it is unwise to rely on the MSP website for information concerning CPL laws. It may be helpful at times but ALWAYS search for the source.

    Although the State Police could have just said premises does not include parking areas, they make it appear that a cpl holder violates the law by having the pistol on the property. In order to find out, look in Michigan Administrative Code, Rule 432.1212. ; the parking lot is NOT prohibited.

    SOHR Administrative Code
    http://www.state.mi.us/orr/emi/admin...gHigh=48702123

    R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.

    Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a
    casino
    , except for the following entities:
    (a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as
    defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as
    amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
    (c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured
    areas.
    (2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino
    shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming
    section of their presence.
    (3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in
    a casino.

    The rule only deals with carry in a casino, "in" seems to imply that it means inside of the casino. If the intent was to prohibit firearms from the parking lot, the legislature would have used the word "premises". Please note that a covered parking ramp which is attached to the casino proper may be construed as a violation, but IMHO it is a stretch.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  17. #17
    Regular Member dfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Garden City/Barryton, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    100

    Post imported post

    zig, got that from this link http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7...0947--,00.htmlabout pistol free zones.
    Dave
    http://www.survivalfox.com/
    "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom". - John F. Kennedy, former U.S. President

  18. #18
    Regular Member dfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Garden City/Barryton, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    100

    Post imported post

    Thanks, DrTodd and Zig.
    Dave
    http://www.survivalfox.com/
    "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom". - John F. Kennedy, former U.S. President

  19. #19
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    942

    Post imported post

    My CPL instructor hammered this point home, had something to do with federal juris-my-diction something or the other. Said usually parking lots are not included, but with Casinos it was. Since I had never heard/read it here, I pretty much ignored it as another misunderstanding by CPL instructors.

  20. #20
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337

    Post imported post

    Call me a cynic, but I don't trust what anyone (myself included) "says" or 'believes" until I either can verify the source (and even then....)
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  21. #21
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    942

    Post imported post

    Exactly. I just ignored it because I'd never seen it on any of the laws here.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Not on this website, USA
    Posts
    2,482

    Post imported post

    stephgrinage23 wrote:
    Wayne county is all in all completely retarded...sorry if anyone is offended by my use of that word, but i couldn't think of a more suitable one.

    Cognitively Impaired is the proper term in the state of Michigan.


  23. #23
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337

    Post imported post

    T Vance wrote:
    stephgrinage23 wrote:
    Wayne county is all in all completely retarded...sorry if anyone is offended by my use of that word, but i couldn't think of a more suitable one.

    Cognitively Impaired is the proper term in the state of Michigan.
    As of May, 2004, you are correct.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Northern lower & Keweenaw area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    667

    Post imported post

    As for cosino parking, how on earth do they stop you from keeping your gun in your car at the cosino on the west side of the state where they have gun shows? I called anasked how I could attend the show, was told that guns were only prohibited on the cosino floor.springerdave.

  25. #25
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337

    Post imported post

    I put the law up in an earlier part of this thread; parking lots of the casino appear legal.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •