Jury Duty in Detroit

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So I'm one of the lucky ones drawn this time. It's my second "Federal" call up downtown. I'll find out tonight if I have to post in the morning. The thing that bothers me the most is I won't be armed. Even if it's walking from the parking garage to the County building. I'm not real hip on leaving my weapon in my vehicle in a public garage. Too bad they don't allow you to check your weapon at the door and retrive it after your done with your business.

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In AZ, they've got a secure storage lockerlaw, requiring lockers to be provided for sidearms and knives and things,in government owned buildings where you can't carry. It's not a bad idea to lobby for similar measures in Michigan.

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Frank Murphy hall of Jusitce that sucks , no guns no cell phone, no bottled water either

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Michigander wrote:

In AZ, they've got a secure storage lockerlaw, requiring lockers to be provided for sidearms and knives and things,in government owned buildings where you can't carry. It's not a bad idea to lobby for similar measures in Michigan.

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Sounds like AZ has got it all worked out. Would be nice to see MI adopt something similar.

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Veritas wrote:

Michigander wrote:

In AZ, they've got a secure storage lockerlaw, requiring lockers to be provided for sidearms and knives and things,in government owned buildings where you can't carry. It's not a bad idea to lobby for similar measures in Michigan.

Click to expand...

Sounds like AZ has got it all worked out. Would be nice to see MI adopt something similar.

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Veritas, check out this thread I posted a while back. This is what happens to those who choose to lawfully carry, by statue, in a court house (not court room) in Michigan that's been prohibited by a court order.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/23954.html

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I'm aware. I was saying it would be nice if there were a means to store your weapon at the courthouse, and pick it back up as you leave. Similar to AZ.

lol If you're trying to coax me into carrying into a court room to test the law, I'm not biting.

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Veritas wrote:

I'm aware. I was saying it would be nice if there were a means to store your weapon at the courthouse, and pick it back up as you leave. Similar to AZ.

lol If you're trying to coax me into carrying into a court room to test the law, I'm not biting.

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Courtroom is illegal, but if you carry in the lobby of the Courthouse it is a contempt of court citation.

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Hence why I said it would be nice if you had a place to legally store your weapon at the "courthouse". I'm not suggesting that the Judge reach out his hand and hold onto our weapons while appear before him.

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Well I wasn't picked for a trial. They started out with 10 cases.7 of them pleaded out and I was sent home by 11:30.

They have SEVERAL signs at the entrance of the building listing everything down to a unfolded paper clip that is banned from the building. I'm surprised your allowed to wear any clothes! Two seperate metal detectors at the entrance. It's funny though, there were probably 8 wayne county sheriffs in the lobby as well, all armed. In fact at one point there was an female officer in front of me while in the office that was bent over talking to a employee as I stood right behind her. Her weapon was VERY vulnerable lets just say. It's funny how their SA is so low. All they were doing was joking around everytime I saw them.

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I got seriously ticked at the Oakland County building (Pontiac) recently. Sparing many details, I had business there... so I arrived, went through the security checkpoint (no weapon... just personal effects and my cell phone) and got through no problem. I go to the County Clerks office and drop off some paperwork. About a week later, I learn that the paperwork I HAND DELIVERED was somehow misplaced. So I make the trek back out there to do it all over again.

Anyone who's gone there during the day knows that parking can be a pain. So I had a decent little walk from my vehicle to the main entrance. I approach the security checkpoint, same as before (in fact, it's the same deputy as before), but this time he starts inspecting my cell phone. He's turning it all around, upside down and sideways, so I ask, "Is there a problem with my phone?" He asks, "Are you an attorney?" (I was wearing a suit because I had just left work for a bit to make this stop). I tell him I'm not and that I'm only going downstairs to the clerks office to drop off some paperwork. His response was "This is a camera phone and we don't allow camera's in the building." As he says this, the deputy right next to him is talking on HIS cell phone... and yes, it had a camera lens built into it. I asked him if I were an attorney if I were allowed to bring my phone, and he said yes. Apparently, as a taxpaying citizen you cannot.

I didn't want to argue, but I felt compelled to ask when this rule came about. "For as far as I can tell", he says. "Really?", I say, "Because you're the one who let this phone in last week when I was here... and I got some GREAT pictures of the drinking fountain. Thank you for that." That's all I said... I turned and made the trek back to my vehicle just so I could drop my phone off. When I came back through again, the same deputy was still on his camera phone. I thought best to just bite my tongue and continue with my business.

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An interesting story written some time ago:

[size=[b]October 19, 1988: Officer Clarence Ratliff, Grand Rapids Police Department [/b]
][/size]

JIM FINKELSTEIN Free Press Staff Writer

October 20, 1988Detroit Free Press

(MI) As Kent County's first female judge, Carol Irons was proud of being a role model for young women.

"I think schoolgirls ought to have professional women as role models," she said in a 1985 interview. "No matter how equal we may be, we are not identical to men. Women often perceive things differently and that difference is very much needed in this field."

Irons, 40, a Highland Park native who was unopposed for re- election this fall as a 61st District Court judge, was shot to death Wednesday at the Kent County Hall of Justice. Her estranged husband, a city police officer, was arrested.

Irons attended Wayne State University Law School and was hired as an assistant Kent County prosecutor after graduating in 1977. Before entering school, she had been married and divorced in the Detroit area.

Michigan Court of Appeals Judge David Sawyer, then Kent County prosecutor, said he had interviewed Irons in the law school's basement.
"She had quite set ideas -- she was a firm believer in upholding the constitutional right of individuals," he said.

Irons handled appeals for the Prosecutor's Office, Sawyer said. She became the office's first woman chief of a division when she was appointed to head the appellate division.

Irons accomplished another first in November 1982, when she defeated Henry Smitter, a prominent lawyer, for a district judgeship. The vote was 25,254-23,921.

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pmcqueen37 wrote:

Frank Murphy hall of Jusitce that sucks , no guns no cell phone, no bottled water either

Click to expand...

Yeah we were just there the other day...sucks... i think i feel more "naked" w/o my blackberry though... haha....and my mother, father, and myself all had to leave our guns in the car in the casino parking structure!

Wayne county is all in all completely retarded...sorry if anyone is offended by my use of that word, but i couldn't think of a more suitable one.

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Jblack44 wrote:

Well I wasn't picked for a trial. They started out with 10 cases.7 of them pleaded out and I was sent home by 11:30.

They have SEVERAL signs at the entrance of the building listing everything down to a unfolded paper clip that is banned from the building. I'm surprised your allowed to wear any clothes! Two seperate metal detectors at the entrance. It's funny though, there were probably 8 wayne county sheriffs in the lobby as well, all armed. In fact at one point there was an female officer in front of me while in the office that was bent over talking to a employee as I stood right behind her. Her weapon was VERY vulnerable lets just say. It's funny how their SA is so low. All they were doing was joking around everytime I saw them.

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omg... some LEO's crack me up... i'm a female, not that strong, quite petite, and I'm quite sure if i wanted to i could overpower some of these out of shape/overweight/older cops and get their weapons from them if i wanted to....i'd never try, but that's what comes to mind whenever i see some of these guys....i'd like to see some of them have to "give chase" to anyone. lol

when we went to FRHoJ the other day it was to meet with a PA to move forward with her case and press charges for a sexual assault that happened to my little sister in Dearborn...

of cousre as we're all going through the detectors one of the officer's says to my dad..."your daughter looks really upset, tell her to cheer up" my dad said, "well she has a reason to be upset, she's hear to press charges for a sexual assault" and the officer said "you know, there are ways of going around the law to handle that kind of thing"

lol THOSE are the LEO's i like.... um..officer, could you repeat that, and speak a little closer to the microphone please...

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stephgrinage23 wrote:

pmcqueen37 wrote:

Frank Murphy hall of Jusitce that sucks , no guns no cell phone, no bottled water either

Click to expand...

Yeah we were just there the other day...sucks... i think i feel more "naked" w/o my blackberry though... haha....and my mother, father, and myself all had to leave our guns in the car in the casino parking structure!

Wayne county is all in all completely retarded...sorry if anyone is offended by my use of that word, but i couldn't think of a more suitable one.

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I believe the "casino parking structure" is also off limits.

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:[/font]

1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian.[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]3. Sports arena or stadium.[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]
[/font]6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]7. A hospital

8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

9. ACasino

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]"Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above in 1 through 8.
[/font]

Parking lot for 1 - 8 is okay but not for 9.



Correct me if I am wrong, I go to the casino all the time and hate having to leave it at home.

[/font]

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dfox wrote:

stephgrinage23 wrote:

pmcqueen37 wrote:

Frank Murphy hall of Jusitce that sucks , no guns no cell phone, no bottled water either

Click to expand...

Yeah we were just there the other day...sucks... i think i feel more "naked" w/o my blackberry though... haha....and my mother, father, and myself all had to leave our guns in the car in the casino parking structure!

Wayne county is all in all completely retarded...sorry if anyone is offended by my use of that word, but i couldn't think of a more suitable one.

Click to expand...

I believe the "casino parking structure" is also off limits. 

[font="Arial, Helvetica"] 

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:[/font]

 1.  Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian.[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]2.  Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]3. Sports arena or stadium.[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]5.  Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]
[/font]6.  An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]7. A hospital
 
8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

9. A Casino

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]"Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above in 1 through 8.
[/font]

Parking lot for 1 - 8 is okay but not for 9.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, I go to the casino all the time and hate having to leave it at home.

[/font]

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I don't see Casino at all in MCL 28.425o...

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425o

Do you?

EDIT: Which makes me wonder why it's on my CPL.

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zigziggityzoo wrote:

dfox wrote:

stephgrinage23 wrote:

pmcqueen37 wrote:

Frank Murphy hall of Jusitce that sucks , no guns no cell phone, no bottled water either

Click to expand...

Yeah we were just there the other day...sucks... i think i feel more "naked" w/o my blackberry though... haha....and my mother, father, and myself all had to leave our guns in the car in the casino parking structure!

Wayne county is all in all completely retarded...sorry if anyone is offended by my use of that word, but i couldn't think of a more suitable one.

Click to expand...

I believe the "casino parking structure" is also off limits.

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:[/font]

1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian.[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]3. Sports arena or stadium.[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]
[/font]6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]7. A hospital

8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university

9. ACasino

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]"Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above in 1 through 8.
[/font]

Parking lot for 1 - 8 is okay but not for 9.



Correct me if I am wrong, I go to the casino all the time and hate having to leave it at home.

[/font]

Click to expand...

I don't see Casino at all in MCL 28.425o...

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-425o

Do you?

EDIT: Which makes me wonder why it's on my CPL.

Click to expand...

Basically, it is unwise to rely on the MSP website for information concerning CPL laws. It may be helpful at times but ALWAYS search for the source.

Although the State Police could have just said premises does not include parking areas, they make it appear that a cpl holder violates the law by having the pistol on the property. In order to find out, look in Michigan Administrative Code, Rule 432.1212. ; the parking lot is NOT prohibited.

SOHR Administrative Code
http://www.state.mi.us/orr/emi/admincode.asp?AdminCode=Single&Admin_Num=43201201&Dpt=&RngHigh=48702123

R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.

Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a
casino, except for the following entities:
(a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as
defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as
amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
(c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured
areas.
(2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino
shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming
section of their presence.
(3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in
a casino.

The rule only deals with carry in a casino, "in" seems to imply that it means inside of the casino. If the intent was to prohibit firearms from the parking lot, the legislature would have used the word "premises". Please note that a covered parking ramp which is attached to the casino proper may be construed as a violation, but IMHO it is a stretch.
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zig, got that from this link http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10947--,00.htmlabout pistol free zones.

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Thanks, DrTodd and Zig.

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My CPL instructor hammered this point home, had something to do with federal juris-my-diction something or the other. Said usually parking lots are not included, but with Casinos it was. Since I had never heard/read it here, I pretty much ignored it as another misunderstanding by CPL instructors.

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Call me a cynic, but I don't trust what anyone (myself included) "says" or 'believes" until I either can verify the source (and even then....)