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Thread: A PDF of an newsletter on OC in Michigan and a power point on Terry Stops

  1. #1
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    These were produced by the Michigan Municipal League and is the Law Enforcement Action Forum Newsletter for April 2009. I like the title

    Open Carry: A potential nightmare?

    Read through both the PDF and the Power point slides. In the PDF some of the lines are taken from our brochure we handout. A few things I disagree with in it but overall it's good. Lot's of legal quotes and legal citations.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Here is the power point slide show on terry stops.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    We need to have a little talk with Audrey Forbush and
    Gene King.

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    One thing I don't agree that's under the Don't Get In Trouble section (last page) is:




    Contact the property owner/agent forpolicy on firearms on premises and their wishes.


    This wouldgive the LEO(s) an opportunity to coerce an owner/agent to have you removed from the premises where in the beginning the owner/agent had no problem whatsoever with your armed presence.




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    From page 2:

    "College buildings and dorm rooms are included in MCL 28.425o as prohibited places under the Michigan CPL Act..."

    That is twice incorrect.

    First, only college classrooms are prohibited places, not college buildings in general (such as administration buildings and the like).

    Secondly, dormitories in their entirety, including the common areas, are prohibited places, not just the individual dorm rooms themselves.

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    i think this is excellent, but i agree with the above comments!

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    I'm working on sending a letter with corrections and comments. I will add this one as I missed it. Thanks.

    The newsletter and slide show is not perfect, but it's better than we had a year ago, which was nothing.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    One thing I don't agree that's under the Don't Get In Trouble section (last page) is:



    Contact the property owner/agent forpolicy on firearms on premises and their wishes.


    This wouldgive the LEO(s) an opportunity to coerce an owner/agent to have you removed from the premises where in the beginning the owner/agent had no problem whatsoever with your armed presence.


    I address this in my comments.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Also, in the power point presentation LEAF was not entirely correct by mentioning that it's illegal to possess a pistol in the places listed in 750.234d unless you have permission from the owner/agent. When in fact, it's legal if you possess a CPL, and per 28.425o, you are OC.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    There are soooooo many "things" in both of those pieces, to change/correct them allwill take some time.....

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    How did you come across/ get your hands on this literature?

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    T Vance wrote:
    How did you come across/ get your hands on this literature?
    Iwon't say.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    I'm working on sending a letter with corrections and comments. I will add this one as I missed it. Thanks.

    The newsletter and slide show is not perfect, but it's better than we had a year ago, which was nothing.
    Here's another one to add.

    People covered by LEOSA and CPL have to follow the law and conditions of the license. They also have to surrender their gun to a law enforcement officer upon demand.

    I've yet to read anything in law that requires me to surrender my weapon to a LEO. I even started a thread about it in the Legal Beagle section at MGO, and so far no one has been able to cite any law saying this.

    I'm fully aware that they may seize it if they have RS, but I'd like to see a cite in law that complies me to surrender it.



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    ghostrider wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    I'm working on sending a letter with corrections and comments. I will add this one as I missed it. Thanks.

    The newsletter and slide show is not perfect, but it's better than we had a year ago, which was nothing.
    Here's another one to add.

    People covered by LEOSA and CPL have to follow the law and conditions of the license. They also have to surrender their gun to a law enforcement officer upon demand.

    I've yet to read anything in law that requires me to surrender my weapon to a LEO. I even started a thread about it in the Legal Beagle section at MGO, and so far no one has been able to cite any law saying this.

    I'm fully aware that they may seize it if they have RS, but I'd like to see a cite in law that complies me to surrender it.

    I had that covered as well. But keep them coming I plan on sending something tomorrow.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    This is stunning.

    Slide 12 .O {font-size:149%;}
    U.S. Supreme Court Houston v. Hill, ]482 U.S. 451, 462, 107 S.Ct. 2502, 2510, 96 L.Ed.2d 398 (1986)
    • [T]he First Amendment protects a significant amount of verbal criticism and challenge directed at police officers....
    • The freedom of individuals verbally to oppose or challenge police action without thereby risking arrest is one of the principal characteristics by which we distinguish a free nation from a police state.


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    More from the power point:

    Slide 18 .O {font-size:149%;} MCL 750.234d states that you cannot possess any firearm in a depository, financial institution, a church or other[size=house of religious worship, court, theatre, sports arena, day care center, hospital or an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, unless that possession is with the permission of the owner or his/her agent of the entity.
    No mention of the exceptions.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Whats the rush?

    I would think completeness would be paramount.

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    The PDF fails to mention that everyone who has a registered pistol is by law licensed to carry it, thereby bypassing the 1000 foot rule. It also fails to mention how CPL holders who are open carrying can go wherever they please in the restricted zones. Disappointing, but definitely a step in the right direction.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    ghostrider wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    I'm working on sending a letter with corrections and comments. I will add this one as I missed it. Thanks.

    The newsletter and slide show is not perfect, but it's better than we had a year ago, which was nothing.
    Here's another one to add.

    People covered by LEOSA and CPL have to follow the law and conditions of the license. They also have to surrender their gun to a law enforcement officer upon demand.

    I've yet to read anything in law that requires me to surrender my weapon to a LEO. I even started a thread about it in the Legal Beagle section at MGO, and so far no one has been able to cite any law saying this.

    I'm fully aware that they may seize it if they have RS, but I'd like to see a cite in law that complies me to surrender it.

    I'dlike to add something here instead of posting a new thread,This reminds me of two comments I have heard this week. I have been told that you have to have your CPL card on you at all time even if you are not carrying.This person told me their CPL instructor said if they get pulled over and asked to produce a CPL card that whether they have a gun in the trunk unloaded cased according to the law, or no gun at all you will be in trouble. They also told him they have to surrender their card when asked even if they are not carrying.

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    conservative85 wrote:
    They also told him they have to surrender their card when asked even if they are not carrying.
    Yep, you could get in trouble for that. Big fines and stuff. A cop might even take your gun away. Then the gun board will tell the cop he'd better apologize, and hope he doesn't get sued.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Uh good one!

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    Michigander wrote:
    conservative85 wrote:
    They also told him they have to surrender their card when asked even if they are not carrying.
    Yep, you could get in trouble for that. Big fines and stuff. A cop might even take your gun away. Then the gun board will tell the cop he'd better apologize, and hope he doesn't get sued.
    Kind of hard to take a gun that isn't there, isn't it?

    (sarcasm off) Michigander is right. Read the statute. The requirements only apply if one is carrying concealed. You are not required to have a DL and CPL if your not driving or CC'ing. Therefore no requirement to disclose or surrender.


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    I would NOT put it past a cop to confiscate an unloaded gun from someones trunk because of failure to disclose CPL status, even though he'd have already known about the CPL from his computer. That is what I was getting at.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Michigander wrote:
    I would NOT put it past a cop to confiscate an unloaded gun from someones trunk because of failure to disclose CPL status, even though he'd have already known about the CPL from his computer. That is what I was getting at.
    How would he get in your trunk...legally that is? No one would volunteer to open their trunk would they? Sorry Tvance I couldn't resist.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    How would he get in your trunk...legally that is? No one would volunteer to open their trunk would they? Sorry Tvance I couldn't resist.
    ARSEHOLE!

    j/k...I learned from that mistake, and by letting people see the videos from my incident it will help teach others what not to do. It will also show others how many police are out to "jam you up".

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