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Thread: BAC when OCing vs. CCing

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    I was told the other day by Michigan State Trooper Lt. Jim Shaw that if you are CCing you may only have a Blood Alcohol Content of .02, but if you are OCing you can have a BAC of .08

    Has anyone else heard/read of this?

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    I was told the other day by Michigan State Trooper Lt. Jim Shaw that if you are CCing you may only have a Blood Alcohol Content of .02, but if you are OCing you can have a BAC of .08

    Has anyone else heard/read of this?
    That is true for someone that doesn't have a CPL.Under 750.234 (I think it's in that statute), it states you can not have more than .08 and be in possession of a firearm.

    It is unclear whether you can have more if you OC with a CPL. Some argue you can some say you can't.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Wait for it ...wait for it....

    And the catch all is "under the influence" which I guess could be .0001%

    So... Drink responsibly!

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    If you're drinking, don't carry. Laws aside, it's a simple moral rule.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I rarely drink, I was just curious. We all know that guns and alcohol don't mix very well.

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    Who wants to be the test dummy?

    As for me, I properly secure and stow my weapon when drinking. Even if it's just a can of beer. To tell the truth, I even get a little nervous when it comes to rinsing with mouthwash and carrying because of the implied consent laws. If an officer were to demand that i submit to a PBT, mouthwash could register as alcohol. Not only does it register, but if you have rinsed recent to the test, you will register at levels that should suggest fatal.

    Of course, I would be arrested and then submit to the court-admissible test at the copshop... hopefully that machine would be calibrated to ignore mouthwash. But you never know... nor would I want to go through the hassle of finding out.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    If you're drinking, don't carry. Laws aside, it's a simple moral rule.
    Wrong!

    I home brew and sometimes go to my home brew store and they may have a special beer there that I may like to sample.

    There is nothing morally wrong with me having a small sample lets say 1 or 2oz

    Not everything to do with drinking is black and white.

    I have enough self control to not drink so much that it will influence my judgment, the one's that write our laws maybe not so much.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Veritas wrote:
    Who wants to be the test dummy?

    As for me, I properly secure and stow my weapon when drinking. Even if it's just a can of beer. To tell the truth, I even get a little nervous when it comes to rinsing with mouthwash and carrying because of the implied consent laws. If an officer were to demand that i submit to a PBT, mouthwash could register as alcohol. Not only does it register, but if you have rinsed recent to the test, you will register at levels that should suggest fatal.

    Of course, I would be arrested and then submit to the court-admissible test at the copshop... hopefully that machine would be calibrated to ignore mouthwash. But you never know... nor would I want to go through the hassle of finding out.
    use non-alcohol mouthwash silly

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Yeah, 1 or 2 ounces of something weak I can see. But beyond that, I believe it is very cut and dry, in that it's just not a good idea.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Veritas wrote:
    Who wants to be the test dummy?

    As for me, I properly secure and stow my weapon when drinking. Even if it's just a can of beer. To tell the truth, I even get a little nervous when it comes to rinsing with mouthwash and carrying because of the implied consent laws. If an officer were to demand that i submit to a PBT, mouthwash could register as alcohol. Not only does it register, but if you have rinsed recent to the test, you will register at levels that should suggest fatal.

    Of course, I would be arrested and then submit to the court-admissible test at the copshop... hopefully that machine would be calibrated to ignore mouthwash. But you never know... nor would I want to go through the hassle of finding out.
    Remember implied consent does not mean you have to comply...Whether in a car or carrying. Though the results may be expensive but I'd rather get a refusale to submit, than an alcy related driving charge, or carry charge.

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    dougwg wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    If you're drinking, don't carry. Laws aside, it's a simple moral rule.
    Wrong!

    I home brew and sometimes go to my home brew store and they may have a special beer there that I may like to sample.

    There is nothing morally wrong with me having a small sample lets say 1 or 2oz

    Not everything to do with drinking is black and white.

    I have enough self control to not drink so much that it will influence my judgment, the one's that write our laws maybe not so much.
    +1000

    Thanks for the sanity. Some people treat beer the way the Brady Bunch treat guns. I'll have none of it.

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    Michigander wrote:
    If you're drinking, don't carry. Laws aside, it's a simple moral rule.
    I would say it is good advise but I don't know if it is immoral to drink & carry, the majority of the west drank and carried. Everything in moderation. With a little resposibility, and knowing your body weight, I see nothing wrong with a drink or two. Now You will never see me drink and leave my property with out diarming. like doug says Under the Influence can mean so many things these days

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    Veritas wrote:
    Who wants to be the test dummy?

    As for me, I properly secure and stow my weapon when drinking. Even if it's just a can of beer. To tell the truth, I even get a little nervous when it comes to rinsing with mouthwash and carrying because of the implied consent laws. If an officer were to demand that i submit to a PBT, mouthwash could register as alcohol. Not only does it register, but if you have rinsed recent to the test, you will register at levels that should suggest fatal.

    Of course, I would be arrested and then submit to the court-admissible test at the copshop... hopefully that machine would be calibrated to ignore mouthwash. But you never know... nor would I want to go through the hassle of finding out.
    just a couple of point for you on this subject. i was an MP in the military, and come from a family of police officers.

    1) the police officer is supposed to ask you if you have had anything to eat or drink in the last 15 mins. if you reply yes he is supposed to wait for 15 minutes to give the test (this includes chewing gum)

    2) to teach student drivers about drunk driving, my father-in-law has asked my dad to come in and give PBT's to students. He brings in a PBT and a bottle of listerene, and then has a student gargle for 30 seconds, and then blow. It registers extremely high like a .40 or something. He then has the student wait 15 minutes while he talks about responsible driving, and then has him blow again. after 15 minutes it registers zero. Mouth wash will not stay in you system long enough to cause you to fail a breathalyzer

    just some stuff for you to keep in mind.

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    I like PA's lack of any law whatsoever on alcohol and carrying. You could get a drunk in public and not have any weapons related charges. I really think it should up to the individual whether they could drink and carry. If someone drinks and he ends up doing something foolish while carrying, he should be held responsible for the foolish act, not because of the factors that led to it.

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    mmdkyoung123 wrote:
    He brings in a PBT and a bottle of listerene, and then has a student gargle for 30 seconds, and then blow. It registers extremely high like a .40 or something. He then has the student wait 15 minutes while he talks about responsible driving, and then has him blow again. after 15 minutes it registers zero. Mouth wash will not stay in you system long enough to cause you to fail a breathalyzer
    I have been pulled over before less than 3 minutes after leaving my house.

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    Rogue9er wrote:
    I like PA's lack of any law whatsoever on alcohol and carrying. You could get a drunk in public and not have any weapons related charges. I really think it should up to the individual whether they could drink and carry. If someone drinks and he ends up doing something foolish while carrying, he should be held responsible for the foolish act, not because of the factors that led to it.
    Extending your logic, are you saying one should be able to drive drunk, as long as they get home without causing any accidents or running over anyone?
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member mmdkyoung123's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    mmdkyoung123 wrote:
    He brings in a PBT and a bottle of listerene, and then has a student gargle for 30 seconds, and then blow. It registers extremely high like a .40 or something. He then has the student wait 15 minutes while he talks about responsible driving, and then has him blow again. after 15 minutes it registers zero. Mouth wash will not stay in you system long enough to cause you to fail a breathalyzer
    I have been pulled over before less than 3 minutes after leaving my house.
    ok, but again, they are required to wait for 15minutes if you tell them that you have eaten, drank, gragyled, or brushed your teeth in the last 15 minutes.if they don't, you will be cleared when you are taked and booked, and then enjoy your lawsuit. i haven't met a police officer yet who want to be sued for not wating a measly 15 minutes.

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    Sometimes, I do feel that what you propose would be correct. However, the situations are not congruent. Alcohol impairs motor skills and timing, which are imperative at all times when driving. However, if you are carrying, 99.9% of the time all you need to do is keep it in the holster. If you do have to draw, and perform within the bounds of law, I don't see the problem.

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    Rogue9er wrote:
    I like PA's lack of any law whatsoever on alcohol and carrying. You could get a drunk in public and not have any weapons related charges. I really think it should up to the individual whether they could drink and carry. If someone drinks and he ends up doing something foolish while carrying, he should be held responsible for the foolish act, not because of the factors that led to it.
    Someone drunk, in public, with a gun is a menace. If I saw someone in that state I would dial 911 immediately and report the person and be a good witness. If the person was really wasted and seemed to be a danger to me or others, I would consider taking possession of the person's gun, ifpossible, until the po-po arrived.

    Waiting until something gets broke or injured is not a feasible option. At least it's not a good one. Better to prevent it from happening. If I saw someone, drunk and armed and he/she injures or kills someone and I could have done something about it, I wouldn't like that very much.



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    Rogue9er wrote:
    Sometimes, I do feel that what you propose would be correct. However, the situations are not congruent. Alcohol impairs motor skills and timing, which are imperative at all times when driving. However, if you are carrying, 99.9% of the time all you need to do is keep it in the holster. If you do have to draw, and perform within the bounds of law, I don't see the problem.
    Exactly right.

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    I was arrested for DUI many years ago. They didn't wait 15 minutes to give me a breath alizer, or even ask me if I had recently drank, or ate anything.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    Rogue9er wrote:
    I like PA's lack of any law whatsoever on alcohol and carrying. You could get a drunk in public and not have any weapons related charges. I really think it should up to the individual whether they could drink and carry. If someone drinks and he ends up doing something foolish while carrying, he should be held responsible for the foolish act, not because of the factors that led to it.
    Someone drunk, in public, with a gun is a menace. If I saw someone in that state I would dial 911 immediately and report the person and be a good witness. If the person was really wasted and seemed to be a danger to me or others, I would consider taking possession of the person's gun, if*possible, *until the po-po arrived.

    Waiting until something gets broke or injured is not a feasible option. At least it's not a good one. Better to prevent it from happening.* If I saw someone, drunk and armed and he/she injures or kills someone and I could have done something about it, I wouldn't like that very much.
    First of all, define "drunk".

    Secondly, is there currently (right now, today) a known problem with numbers of people drinking to complete loss of control while open carrying firearms, where such a prohibition would prevent harm? I mean, after all, since it's legal, people are bound to do it, right?

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    HankT wrote:
    Rogue9er wrote:
    I like PA's lack of any law whatsoever on alcohol and carrying. You could get a drunk in public and not have any weapons related charges. I really think it should up to the individual whether they could drink and carry. If someone drinks and he ends up doing something foolish while carrying, he should be held responsible for the foolish act, not because of the factors that led to it.
    Someone drunk, in public, with a gun is a menace. If I saw someone in that state I would dial 911 immediately and report the person and be a good witness. If the person was really wasted and seemed to be a danger to me or others, I would consider taking possession of the person's gun, ifpossible, until the po-po arrived.

    Waiting until something gets broke or injured is not a feasible option. At least it's not a good one. Better to prevent it from happening. If I saw someone, drunk and armed and he/she injures or kills someone and I could have done something about it, I wouldn't like that very much.

    So you'll convict someone of precrime. Great.

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    Rogue9er wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Rogue9er wrote:
    I like PA's lack of any law whatsoever on alcohol and carrying. You could get a drunk in public and not have any weapons related charges. I really think it should up to the individual whether they could drink and carry. If someone drinks and he ends up doing something foolish while carrying, he should be held responsible for the foolish act, not because of the factors that led to it.
    Someone drunk, in public, with a gun is a menace. If I saw someone in that state I would dial 911 immediately and report the person and be a good witness. If the person was really wasted and seemed to be a danger to me or others, I would consider taking possession of the person's gun, ifpossible, until the po-po arrived.

    Waiting until something gets broke or injured is not a feasible option. At least it's not a good one. Better to prevent it from happening. If I saw someone, drunk and armed and he/she injures or kills someone and I could have done something about it, I wouldn't like that very much.

    So you'll convict someone of precrime. Great.
    Perhaps you did not read my post. I would call the police.

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    Since it is illegal in MI to carry while intoxicated, I would not term it "pre-crime". It really is immaterial whether PA outlaws carrying while under the influence or not, it is illegal here.

    Also, yes, it is a problem here in Michigan. Perhaps PA is different, but in MI during the Novemeber firearm deer season, incidents of carrying a firearm under the influence are not rare; rarer than it used to be perhaps, but definately not rare.

    If a person is intoxicated to the degree that it is obvious to the casual observer, the carrying of a firearm is dangerous. I think an argument can be made that at .08 BAC, most people are not intoxicated to such a degree that driving a car or carrying a firearm is dangerous. That is an arguable point. However, I think that if someone is stumbling over their own feet, falling down on the ground, and unable to focus, carrying a firearm is extremely dangerous.

    There are a large number of laws that are so constructed. Speeding, running a red light, and pulling fire alarms in a building are all illegal acts in and of themselves, independent of anyone actually suffering injury.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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