• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

On primary offenses

H

HardChrome

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
236
Location
Newport News, VA, ,
imported post

I'm baffled that Virginia has made it mandatory that all front seat passengers wear seatbelts in a car. You can get a ticket for not wearing one BUT this is not a primary offense, meaning that if a LEO sees you driving in violation, he/she cannot stop you unless there is some other (primary) reason to stop you.

Compare that with open carrying of a firearm, something that is guaranteed in the state yet it is well known that it is often treated as a primary offense.

So how can something that is totally legal be treated so differently from something that is so illegal?
 
D

Dispatcher

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
311
Location
Virginia, , USA
imported post

The officer can stop you for any violation of the law. If you aren't wearing your seatbelt and he can plainly see that, he can stop you.

Though it's a different story if they stop you while you are legally carrying.
 
peter nap

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
imported post

Who cares about the seatbealt law. I always wore one....until they passed the law and haven't worn one since:banghead:
 
SouthernBoy

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
imported post

peter nap wrote:
Who cares about the seatbealt law. I always wore one....until they passed the law and haven't worn one since:banghead:
Click to expand...

Right. I am totally against seatbelt laws. Same for motorcycle helmet laws and child safety seat laws. Just more governmental intrusion into areas where they don't belong.

I wouldn't move any of my vehicles out of my driveway without first buckling up. I don't need a law to tell me to do this. The thing that rests between my ears is good enough for that. Same with the other items I mentioned above. I own me, not the government. Therefore, I get to say (or should) what I will chose to do with me.
 
P

Paragon

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
48
Location
, ,
imported post

SouthernBoy wrote:
peter nap wrote:
Who cares about the seatbealt law. I always wore one....until they passed the law and haven't worn one since:banghead:
Click to expand...

Right. I am totally against seatbelt laws. Same for motorcycle helmet laws and child safety seat laws. Just more governmental intrusion into areas where they don't belong.

I wouldn't move any of my vehicles out of my driveway without first buckling up. I don't need a law to tell me to do this. The thing that rests between my ears is good enough for that. Same with the other items I mentioned above. I own me, not the government. Therefore, I get to say (or should) what I will chose to do with me.
Click to expand...


I agree with you in regards to helmet and seat belt laws, because it's the wearer's own safety and should be his concern, not the states, but the infant/toddler in the car seat doesn't have much of a choice in the matter. I don't have a problem with the child seat laws because I've seen too many irresponsible parents.
 
H

hsmith

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
1,687
Location
Virginia USA, ,
imported post

peter nap wrote:
Who cares about the seatbealt law. I always wore one....until they passed the law and haven't worn one since:banghead:
Click to expand...
And in my mind, that is totally stupid. If you are carrying for protection, you should be wearing a seat belt for protection. If the state mandated you carry a gun everywhere, would you stop doing that?
 
Tess

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
imported post

Paragon wrote:
I agree with you in regards to helmet and seat belt laws, because it's the wearer's own safety and should be his concern, not the states, but the infant/toddler in the car seat doesn't have much of a choice in the matter. I don't have a problem with the child seat laws because I've seen too many irresponsible parents.
Click to expand...
Yeah, until the states start deciding a child has to be in a seat until he's EIGHT, and in the back seat, and in a particular TYPE of seat .......

no, thanks.

But here's why seatbelt laws are amusing. Let's assume for a moment that failure to wear a seatbelt became a primary offense (it isn't, in Virginia). Can you imagine a police officer stopping you on a rainy day, or on a snowy road, to give you a ticket? He doesn't want to get out of his car. The legislation that was introduced this year in the GA was specifically targeted to teenagers, so police officers could stop them coming out of school grounds without seatbelts on. It was done for profiling purposes only, though the sponsor of the legislation (Del K. Amundson) said it was to protect drunk-driving teenagers.
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
imported post

Tess wrote:
snip.......... The legislation that was introduced this year in the GA was specifically targeted to teenagers, so police officers could stop them coming out of school grounds without seatbelts on. It was done for profiling purposes only, though the sponsor of the legislation (Del K. Amundson) said it was to protect drunk-driving teenagers.
Click to expand...
There are laws against teenagers drinking and drunk driving so we really needed this law - right?

Murder and armed robbery are also illegal - that's why we need permits to carry concealed.

That's illogical Capt. Kirk.

Yata hey
 
W

Wooley

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
673
Location
Hoodbridge, Virginia, USA
imported post

hsmith wrote:
peter nap wrote:
Who cares about the seatbealt law. I always wore one....until they passed the law and haven't worn one since:banghead:
Click to expand...
And in my mind, that is totally stupid. If you are carrying for protection, you should be wearing a seat belt for protection. If the state mandated you carry a gun everywhere, would you stop doing that?
Click to expand...
+1
 
D

DarkHorse

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
66
Location
Fredericksburg, VA, ,
imported post

Dispatcher wrote:
The officer can stop you for any violation of the law. If you aren't wearing your seatbelt and he can plainly see that, he can stop you.

Though it's a different story if they stop you while you are legally carrying.
Click to expand...

Its been awhile since I was in the academy....but in '01 it was not considereda primary offense. So, at that time, no.....you could not be pulled for just a seat belt violation alone. It would be a secondary offense. (ex- pulled for speeding and then also cited for seatbelt). But.....an imaginative officer could find another reason to pull you over that was a primary offense.( ie something hanging from your rear view mirror).

However, I just imagined that it had changed in the state by now. Most other states have it as a primary offense.

I agree with all that said it should be a primary offense. I have seen too many reasons why unbelted passengers in a vehicle is a bad thing.
 
R

ravonaf

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
128
Location
, ,
imported post

I have seen too many reasons why unbelted passengers in a vehicle is a bad thing.
Click to expand...
The amount of perfectly legal things that you can do that are bad for you are uncountable. Why should this one be any different?
 
Tess

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
imported post

DarkHorse wrote:
I agree with all that said it should be a primary offense. I have seen too many reasons why unbelted passengers in a vehicle is a bad thing.
Click to expand...
Probably everyone agrees there are many, many reasons why it's a bad thing.

What many of us disagree with is the government's "right" to regulate all bad things.
 
D

DarkHorse

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
66
Location
Fredericksburg, VA, ,
imported post

ravonaf wrote:
I have seen too many reasons why unbelted passengers in a vehicle is a bad thing.
Click to expand...
The amount of perfectly legal things that you can do that are bad for you are uncountable. Why should this one be any different?
Click to expand...

Well, in a worldwhere everything that is black and white.....then it wouldn't be.

However, wearing a seatbelt is related to driving a car that produces statistics like this.....

"Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes."

So, I would be interested in knowing another one of these activities that has that big of an impact.
 
TexasNative

TexasNative

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
856
Location
Austin, TX
imported post

As strongly as I feel about this subject, we're really starting to lose any connection with open carry here.

~ Boyd
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
imported post

DarkHorse wrote:
ravonaf wrote:
I have seen too many reasons why unbelted passengers in a vehicle is a bad thing.
Click to expand...
The amount of perfectly legal things that you can do that are bad for you are uncountable. Why should this one be any different?
Click to expand...

Well, in a worldwhere everything that is black and white.....then it wouldn't be.

However, wearing a seatbelt is related to driving a car that produces statistics like this.....

"Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes."

So, I would be interested in knowing another one of these activities that has that big of an impact.
Click to expand...
Living.

Eating.

Smoking..

Drinking.

Fill in the blanks.....................

Yata hey
 
D

DarkHorse

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
66
Location
Fredericksburg, VA, ,
imported post

Grapeshot wrote:
DarkHorse wrote:
ravonaf wrote:
I have seen too many reasons why unbelted passengers in a vehicle is a bad thing.
Click to expand...
The amount of perfectly legal things that you can do that are bad for you are uncountable. Why should this one be any different?
Click to expand...

Well, in a worldwhere everything that is black and white.....then it wouldn't be.

However, wearing a seatbelt is related to driving a car that produces statistics like this.....

"Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes."

So, I would be interested in knowing another one of these activities that has that big of an impact.
Click to expand...
Living.

Eating.

Smoking..

Drinking.

Fill in the blanks.....................

Yata hey
Click to expand...

I guess I never considered "living" an activity in the same contextas driving a car. But, I guess when we start making arguments like this.....clearly there is no middle ground to discuss here.

BTW- What is the history with your signature"Yata Hey"?
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
imported post

TexasNative wrote:
As strongly as I feel about this subject, we're really starting to lose any connection with open carry here.

~ Boyd
Click to expand...
IMO - the connection is that governmental regulations on activities like the RKBA or whether or not I eat trans fats or sugar, wear a seat belt or get 8 hours of sleep should not be anybody's business but mine.

Agree that the connection/relevance should be maintained.

Yata hey
 
TexasNative

TexasNative

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
856
Location
Austin, TX
imported post

I'm just saying that debating whether or not the state should require us to wear seatbelts has strayed from our purpose here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top