• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Open Carry - Artfair

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
imported post

T Vance wrote:
Maybe it's because I grew up in a small town, IDK.

THAT would do it. I've never resided in a small town, but I've always wanted to.

In all the small towns I've ever visited, aside from some in Texas, they are reliably full of mostly kind and friendly people. Ann Arbor has nothing on small town living.
 

Rogue9er

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
145
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

ISMOID wrote:
Rogue9er wrote:
...I'll probably be working at the Pizza Pino booth at the western end of Liberty.
Sounds like a free lunch for the OC'rs in the crowd!! :celebrate
Probably not, my boss is crazy cheap.


But I'm with T Vance on this one, I can't wait to get out of this town. Maybe it's that I'm from a small town too (Hartland).

So is there any possibility that the event organizers can give us the boot?
 

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
imported post

zigziggityzoo wrote:
I'm from a small township called Alamo, outside kalamazoo, between a corn field and a road. I moved to Ann Arbor 5 years ago, and I love it here.
Yeah, but you're easy to get along with. ;)
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

zigziggityzoo wrote:
I'm from a small township called Alamo, outside kalamazoo, between a corn field and a road. I moved to Ann Arbor 5 years ago, and I love it here.
I did some soil vapor sampling in Alamo about 18 years ago. I spent a month there one week. You are right ain't nothing there.
 

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
I'm from a small township called Alamo, outside kalamazoo, between a corn field and a road. I moved to Ann Arbor 5 years ago, and I love it here.
I did some soil vapor sampling in Alamo about 18 years ago.  I spent a month there one week.  You are right ain't nothing there.

There is one thing: The Kalamazoo Speedway.
 

burgundyyears

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
22
Location
, Michigan, USA
imported post

The meetup would have to be at one of the Art Fairs off of UM property, due to the ban on all carry on campus. One of the Art Fairs occupies the mall area, but the rest are on city streets, which should be fine for OC.
 

SpringerXDacp

New member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
3,341
Location
Burton, Michigan
imported post

Here's the Map for the Art Fair. It appears that the shaded area (tan) is U of M property?

Address: 721 E Huron Ste 200 Ann Arbor, MI 48104
Phone: (734) 994-5260


Link: MAP
 

burgundyyears

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
22
Location
, Michigan, USA
imported post

The map seems fair. I'd be sure to stay in the street or sidewalk. State and South University are definitely city streets and I don't think they can reasonably be considered University property.
 

SpringerXDacp

New member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
3,341
Location
Burton, Michigan
imported post

burgundyyears wrote:
The map seems fair. I'd be sure to stay in the street or sidewalk. State and South University are definitely city streets and I don't think they can reasonably be considered University property.

The problem with folks relying on sidewalks for public ingress and egress (carrying) is that in most cases sidewalks in the downtown area of many cities, villages are commonly known as "Marginal Walks." Meaning the walk (concrete), for example,extends from the curb to the front of the buildings along the street.

The only way to know the exact right-of-way is to obtain the Liber and Page numbers (Instrument Numbers used now) of right-of-ways and easements that may be of benefit or burden to the property owner(s) along the subject street. Unlike sidewalks you typically see in subdivisions--most of the time they lie withinthe road right-of-way--there's nothing noticeable on a marginal walk that would indicate where the right-of-way line may be.

Much like telephone poles, there are many who believe the poles are set within the roadright-of-way and/or placed on property lines common to adjacent property owners-this is not always the case.

As far as attending the Art Fair, the worst case scenario would be that they'd ask you to leave or secure the firearm in your vehicle. If you have a CPL and are OC, I don't know how you could be in violation of any firearm laws. Students of U of M, on the other hand, would be a different story.
 

SigSauer

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
34
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

As far as attending the Art Fair, the worst case scenario would be that they'd ask you to leave or secure the firearm in your vehicle.

No, the worst case scenario is an OCer walking through a crowed street (the ArtFair drew over half a million last year (officially)) and some moron shrieks "HE'S GOT A GUN!!" and the omnipresent A2 police, thinking that their nightmare scenario is unfolding, draw a bead on your melon while the thousands around you go ape-crap.

Oh, and the art fair is really at least four (I think more) independent art fairs, each with it's own organizing board of directors, just to complicate things a little more.


Sig

 

burgundyyears

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
22
Location
, Michigan, USA
imported post

SpringerXDacp wrote:
burgundyyears wrote:
The map seems fair. I'd be sure to stay in the street or sidewalk. State and South University are definitely city streets and I don't think they can reasonably be considered University property.

The problem with folks relying on sidewalks for public ingress and egress (carrying) is that in most cases sidewalks in the downtown area of many cities, villages are commonly known as "Marginal Walks." Meaning the walk (concrete), for example,extends from the curb to the front of the buildings along the street.

The only way to know the exact right-of-way is to obtain the Liber and Page numbers (Instrument Numbers used now) of right-of-ways and easements that may be of benefit or burden to the property owner(s) along the subject street. Unlike sidewalks you typically see in subdivisions--most of the time they lie withinthe road right-of-way--there's nothing noticeable on a marginal walk that would indicate where the right-of-way line may be.

Much like telephone poles, there are many who believe the poles are set within the roadright-of-way and/or placed on property lines common to adjacent property owners-this is not always the case.

As far as attending the Art Fair, the worst case scenario would be that they'd ask you to leave or secure the firearm in your vehicle. If you have a CPL and are OC, I don't know how you could be in violation of any firearm laws. Students of U of M, on the other hand, would be a different story.
No, all carry is specifically banned on UM property by the Board of Regents. Google University of Michigan Ordinance X. It's a misdemeanor crime. From UofM statistics, they appear to arrest about 5 people a year in violation of it. That's why you want to make sure you're on city right of way or city property. :)

The University of Michigan Ordinances apply to everyone.

University of Michigan Ordinances: http://www.regents.umich.edu/ordinance.pdf

Article X: Weapons

Section 1. Scope of Article X Article X applies to all property owned, leased or otherwise controlled by the Regents of the University of MIchigan and applies regardless of whether the Individual has a concealed weapons permit or is otherwise authorized by law to possess, discharge, or use any device referenced below.

Section 2. Possession of Firearms, Dangerous Weapons and Knives Except as otherwise provided in Section 4, no person shall, while on any property owned, leased, or otherwise controlled by the Regents of the University of Michigan: (1) possess any firearm or any other dangerous weapon as defined in or interpreted under Michigan law or (2) wear on his or her person or carry in his or her clothing any knife, sword or machete having a blade longer than four (4) inches, or, in the case of a knife with a mechanism to lock the blade in place when open, longer than three (3) inches.

[...]

Section 5. Violation Penalty
A person who violates this Article X is guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon
conviction, punishable by imprisonment for not less than ten (10) days and no
more than sixty (60) days, or by a fine of not more than fifty dollars ($50.00) or
both.
 

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
imported post

burgundy, licensed open carry is preemptively legal anywhere in the state, other than a court house, or federal property. U of M simply doesn't have the right to tell a CPL holder that he or she can't OC on campus property.
 

burgundyyears

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
22
Location
, Michigan, USA
imported post

Michigander wrote:
burgundy, licensed open carry is preemptively legal anywhere in the state, other than a court house, or federal property. U of M simply doesn't have the right to tell a CPL holder that he or she can't OC on campus property.
As is my understanding, firearms preemption does not apply to UofM and they are authorized to make whatever rules regarding firearms (wrong as they may be) that they want.
 

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

burgundyyears wrote:
Michigander wrote:
burgundy, licensed open carry is preemptively legal anywhere in the state, other than a court house, or federal property. U of M simply doesn't have the right to tell a CPL holder that he or she can't OC on campus property.
As is my understanding, firearms preemption does not apply to UofM and they are authorized to make whatever rules regarding firearms (wrong as they may be) that they want.

MCL 123.1102 Applies Specifically to "Local units of government," which is defined in the statute as: "(a) “Local unit of government” means a city, village, township, or county."

A university/school does not count as any of the four. :banghead: Unfortunately, their ordinances are legal in the eyes of the State.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

burgundyyears wrote:
y.


No, all carry is specifically banned on UM property by the Board of Regents. Google University of Michigan Ordinance X. It's a misdemeanor crime. From UofM statistics, they appear to arrest about 5 people a year in violation of it. That's why you want to make sure you're on city right of way or city property. :)

The University of Michigan Ordinances apply to everyone.


I bet those fivewere students or staff.

I heard this from a reliable source but as always these are my opinions and you have to make the decision yourself.

U of M is not going to arrest or cite a non-student CPL holder for OC or CC. The attorneys for the university are not going after CPL holders because they don't want to have a court case find that they do have to follow preemption. So they don't make an issue of it.

They would rather there be this gray area and intimidate people than have a case go against them. And believe me there are attorneys that are prepared to defend a person and present a case against them and they have a good chance to win..
 
Top