Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: OC in a state ownwed campground

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Durand, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    69

    Post imported post

    This Memorial day weekend I have plans to go camping in a DNR primative campground in northern lower Michigan. This is legal right? what if I go into Federal forest, am I still legal?

    Thanks in advance. Dan

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    34

    Post imported post

    A great question, I'd like to hear an answer too, as I spend a lot of time at Canoe Harbor in Grayling.


    Sig


  3. #3
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830

    Post imported post

    On state land, I believe you are good to go for carrying, and target shooting at safe back stops.

    At State Parks, game rules come into play, and I believe unless you are hunting, or carrying under the authority of a CPL, you must carry unloaded in both the barrel and magazine.

    I could be wrong, but this is my understanding.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    34

    Post imported post

    I think the question also involved a FEDERAL forest.

    Sig



  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Jackson, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    125

    Post imported post

    Last I heard, and verified with a park ranger in the national forest, the rule of allowing legal carry in national forests (federal) was temporarily revoked because they think it will increase poaching
    I think the decision is still tied up in the courts, and I haven't heard anything final.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,544

    Post imported post

    maahes wrote:
    Last I heard, and verified with a park ranger in the national forest, the rule of allowing legal carry in national forests (federal) was temporarily revoked because they think it will increase poaching
    I think the decision is still tied up in the courts, and I haven't heard anything final.
    The senate just passed a bill making this legal, didn't they?

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/25765.html

  7. #7
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830

    Post imported post

    National parks and federal land are 2 different things when it comes to legalities. Unfortunately, I am not as familiar with these laws as I'd like to be.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  8. #8
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    Dansjeep2000 wrote:
    This Memorial day weekend I have plans to go camping in a DNR primative campground in northern lower Michigan. This is legal right? what if I go into Federal forest, am I still legal?

    Thanks in advance. Dan
    If you have a CPL you can conceal or OC in both State camp grounds/land and in National Forrest's. At this time you can not have a loaded firearm in a National park or Lakeshore.

    If you do not have a CPL you can not have a loaded firearm in a state camp ground. You can OC on state lands and on National Forrest's, outside a camp ground, But I would recommend you have a small game license just to be safe. It's not clear if the DNR rules about having a loaded firearm where game is applicable even if you are only carryingfor self defense. So I would get the $13 license as insurance.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    maahes wrote:
    Last I heard, and verified with a park ranger in the national forest, the rule of allowing legal carry in national forests (federal) was temporarily revoked because they think it will increase poaching
    I think the decision is still tied up in the courts, and I haven't heard anything final.
    The senate just passed a bill making this legal, didn't they?

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/25765.html
    It passed the senate, but it's a long way from becoming law, so until then it's no CC or otherwise in a Nation park/lakeshore.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Not on this website, USA
    Posts
    2,482

    Post imported post

    Here is a question I sent to Michigan's DNR some weeks back...

    Customer (T. Vance) - 03/24/2009 12:15 PM
    According to State Law, it it legal to carry a registered holstered pistol in public so long as it is plain view and recognizable as a firearm without a CPL/CCW. When you are carrying either openly or concealed is there a restriction on how many rounds that magazine may hold?

    Is it legal to target practice on state land with a pistol?

    Is it legal to hunt varment on state land with a pistol?






    Response (Terry Cook) - 03/30/2009 02:32 PM
    1. Although not a natural resources issue, we can advise that federal law 18USC Sec 922, which prohibited an individual from having a firearm with a clip holding over 10 rounds, was repealed effective September 1, 2004. There is no legal restriction on number of rounds a clip may hold currently in place.

    2. Yes, it is legal to target shoot with a pistol on those state lands where target shooting is permitted. Target shooting is allowed year around on state forest lands and state game and wildlife areas unless specifically posted closed to entry, target shooting or the discharge of firearms at the site. State Park and State Recreation Lands are closed to target shooting except at designated shooting ranges.

    3. Yes, it is lawful to hunt most small game (except waterfowl and wild turkey) with a pistol on those state lands open to hunting. There are no firearm or caliber restrictions for DAYTIME predator hunting (raccoon, oppossum, fox, and coyote) EXCEPT during the November firearm deer season. NIGHTTIME predator hunting is restricted to only a .22 or smaller caliber RIMFIRE rifle or handgun, or shotgun with loads other than buckshot, slug, ball or cut shell, or bow and arrow.

    Finally, in both open carry and concealed situations, you should be aware that MCL 750.234d states that you cannot possess any firearm in a depository financial institution, a church or other house of religious worship, court, theatre, sports arena, day care center, hospital or an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, unless that possession is with the permission of the owner or his/her agent of the entity.

    Michigan DNR
    Law Enforcement Division





  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Niles & Lawton, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    295

    Post imported post

    About 95% of my OCing is done on state land. I've always had a game license, but it's not required.

    Altough during deer season, you can't have more then 9 rounds in total in southern MI (zone 3). Unless you have a CPL and Aren't hunting with the pistol.

    When I go camping in zone 2, I take my pistol and OC while hiking, As well as having a pump action unloaded in a locked vehicle, and keep it loaded in the tent at night. But that's because I don't suspect a .40 S&W will do much against a 400lb hungry Black Bear.I prefer to camp with the primitive camping permit(if thats what its called) out in the middle of BFE.

    I've talked with the rangers, and the trustees when we go to Rv camp gounds, The only question I've gotten was "Did'ya Get nething?" I've never Carried on federal land, or camped In zone 3 though.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    michigan, ,
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    Sorry to butt in... i just lurk a lot with tons of questions....

    going up to pictured rocks (national lakeshore/park) this summer, no CPL, was wondering at the very least the legality of having an unloaded firearm in a backpack while hiking? and will stored properly in the car be alright as well?



  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Not on this website, USA
    Posts
    2,482

    Post imported post

    I wouldn't feel safe in most of those wooded areas up north without some sort of firearm. Especially in the U.P.!!!

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Niles & Lawton, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    295

    Post imported post

    Federal land, It's best to check with the rangers on duty. The new statute passed to allow carrying on federal land or national parks (there is a difference). State land and state camp grounds are public property, so Carry on.

    Best to just call and check if your unsure, and or unable to find literature on it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    BreakingTheMold wrote:
    Federal land, It's best to check with the rangers on duty. The new statute passed to allow carrying on federal land or national parks (there is a difference). State land and state camp grounds are public property, so Carry on.

    Best to just call and check if your unsure, and or unable to find literature on it.
    See: MCL 324.43510 & MCL 324.504

    BreakingTheMold, at this time, you can only carry in National Forests. The Bill to allow carry in National Parks has not beened signed into law-it will be awhile for that.

    324.43510 Carrying or transporting firearm, slingshot, bow and arrow, crossbow or trap; license required; exception; applicability to taking of wild animal.

    Sec. 43510.

    (1) Subject to subsection (2) and except as provided in section 43513, a person shall not carry or transport a firearm, slingshot, bow and arrow, crossbow, or a trap while in any area frequented by wild animals unless that person has in his or her possession a license as required under this part.

    (2) This act or a rule promulgated or order issued by the department or the commission under this act shall not be construed to prohibit a person from transporting a pistol or carrying a loaded pistol, whether concealed or not, if either of the following applies:

    (a) The person has in his or her possession a license to carry a concealed pistol under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435.

    (b) The person is authorized under the circumstances to carry a concealed pistol without obtaining a license to carry a concealed pistol under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, as provided for under any of the following:

    (i) Section 12a of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.432a.

    (ii) Section 227, 227a, 231, or 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.227, 750.227a, 750.231, and 750.231a.

    (3) Subsection (2) does not authorize an individual to take or attempt to take a wild animal except as provided by law.

    History: Add. 1995, Act 57, Imd. Eff. May 24, 1995 ;-- Am. 1996, Act 585, Eff. Mar. 1, 1997 ;-- Am. 2004, Act 129, Imd. Eff. June 3, 2004 ;-- Am. 2006, Act 433, Imd. Eff. Oct. 5, 2006
    Popular Name: Act 451
    Popular Name: NREPA

    Also,

    324.504 Department of natural resources; rules for protection of lands and property; certain rules prohibited; orders; violation as civil infraction; fine.
    Sec. 504.

    (1) The department shall promulgate rules for the protection of the lands and property under its control against wrongful use or occupancy as will ensure the carrying out of the intent of this part to protect the lands and property from depredations and to preserve the lands and property from molestation, spoilation, destruction, or any other improper use or occupancy.

    (2) This section does not allow the department to promulgate a rule that applies to commercial fishing except as otherwise provided by law.

    (3) The department shall not promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits an individual who is licensed or exempt from licensure under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, from carrying a pistol in compliance with that act, whether concealed or otherwise, on property under the control of the department.

    (4) The department shall issue orders necessary to implement rules promulgated under this section. These orders shall be effective upon posting.

    (5) A person who violates a rule promulgated under this section or an order issued under this section is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be ordered to pay a civil fine of not more than $500.00.

    History: 1994, Act 451, Eff. Mar. 30, 1995 ;-- Am. 1996, Act 171, Imd. Eff. Apr. 18, 1996 ;-- Am. 2004, Act 130, Imd. Eff. June 3, 2004
    Popular Name: Act 451
    Popular Name: NREPA
    Admin Rule: R 299.291a et seq. and R 299.921 et seq. of the Michigan Administrative Code.

  16. #16
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337

    Post imported post

    T Vance wrote:
    Here is a question I sent to Michigan's DNR some weeks back...

    Customer (T. Vance) - 03/24/2009 12:15 PM
    According to State Law, it it legal to carry a registered holstered pistol in public so long as it is plain view and recognizable as a firearm without a CPL/CCW. When you are carrying either openly or concealed is there a restriction on how many rounds that magazine may hold?

    Is it legal to target practice on state land with a pistol?

    Is it legal to hunt varment on state land with a pistol?






    Response (Terry Cook) - 03/30/2009 02:32 PM
    1. Although not a natural resources issue, we can advise that federal law 18USC Sec 922, which prohibited an individual from having a firearm with a clip holding over 10 rounds, was repealed effective September 1, 2004. There is no legal restriction on number of rounds a clip may hold currently in place.

    2. Yes, it is legal to target shoot with a pistol on those state lands where target shooting is permitted. Target shooting is allowed year around on state forest lands and state game and wildlife areas unless specifically posted closed to entry, target shooting or the discharge of firearms at the site. State Park and State Recreation Lands are closed to target shooting except at designated shooting ranges.

    3. Yes, it is lawful to hunt most small game (except waterfowl and wild turkey) with a pistol on those state lands open to hunting. There are no firearm or caliber restrictions for DAYTIME predator hunting (raccoon, oppossum, fox, and coyote) EXCEPT during the November firearm deer season. NIGHTTIME predator hunting is restricted to only a .22 or smaller caliber RIMFIRE rifle or handgun, or shotgun with loads other than buckshot, slug, ball or cut shell, or bow and arrow.

    Finally, in both open carry and concealed situations, you should be aware that MCL 750.234d states that you cannot possess any firearm in a depository financial institution, a church or other house of religious worship, court, theatre, sports arena, day care center, hospital or an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, unless that possession is with the permission of the owner or his/her agent of the entity.

    Michigan DNR
    Law Enforcement Division



    WARNING: THE HIGHLIGHTED INFORMATION ABOVE IS INCORRECT

    As we all should know by now, the information highlighted above is correct for OC w/out a CPL, but CPL holders are exempt from MCL 750.234d. CPL holders DO need to follow the restrictions imposed by MCL 28.425o
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    IIRC, that's the exact wording the LEAF legal advisor used in the power point presentation. This is one of many concerns/questions Brian has added to the list to be addressed.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157

    Post imported post

    DrTodd wrote:
    CPL holders DO need to follow the restrictions imposed by MCL 28.425o
    But only if they are concealing.

    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

    Sec. 5o.

    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    Bronson wrote:
    DrTodd wrote:
    CPL holders DO need to follow the restrictions imposed by MCL 28.425o
    But only if they are concealing.

    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

    Sec. 5o.

    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    Bronson
    Correct. That's really what DrTodd said.

    IOW, if you're a CPL holder and you"follow the restrictions imposed by"Section 5o, then you know CC is prohibited in those places mentioned.

  20. #20
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    BreakingTheMold wrote:
    Federal land, It's best to check with the rangers on duty. The new statute passed to allow carrying on federal land or national parks (there is a difference). State land and state camp grounds are public property, so Carry on.

    Best to just call and check if your unsure, and or unable to find literature on it.
    Guys/Gals Federal Forrest's are okay to OC or CC with or without a CPL. Treat them like state Forrest's.

    ONLY National Parks/Lakeshores are off limits to loaded firearms. You can possess firearms in National Parks/Lakeshores as long as they are unloaded and secured in a trunk or case (Same as Michigan transport laws.) Exception is in a National Park or Lakeshore that allows hunting, like Sleeping Bear National Lakeshore, you can hunt there and have loaded firearms during hunting seasons with a hunting licence. That is where I deer hunt, duck hunt and grouse hunt.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  21. #21
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    sictransitgloria wrote:
    Sorry to butt in... i just lurk a lot with tons of questions....

    going up to pictured rocks (national lakeshore/park) this summer, no CPL, was wondering at the very least the legality of having an unloaded firearm in a backpack while hiking? and will stored properly in the car be alright as well?

    You can have it stored properly in your vehicle for sure. I'm not sure about the backpack. I would ask the local ranger, my bet is that you can't.

    But if Hunting is allowed on the Lakeshore property you can OC with a small game license since some animals are open all year, rock doves, starlings, english sparrow, and Check groundhogs, I think they are as well.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  22. #22
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337

    Post imported post

    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    Bronson wrote:
    DrTodd wrote:
    CPL holders DO need to follow the restrictions imposed by MCL 28.425o
    But only if they are concealing.

    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

    Sec. 5o.

    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    Bronson
    Correct. That's really what DrTodd said.

    IOW, if you're a CPL holder and you"follow the restrictions imposed by"Section 5o, then you know CC is prohibited in those places mentioned.
    I thought people here knew that, but thanks for clarifying my comment.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Montague, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    100

    Post imported post

    Venator wrote:
    sictransitgloria wrote:
    Sorry to butt in... i just lurk a lot with tons of questions....

    going up to pictured rocks (national lakeshore/park) this summer, no CPL, was wondering at the very least the legality of having an unloaded firearm in a backpack while hiking? and will stored properly in the car be alright as well?

    You can have it stored properly in your vehicle for sure. I'm not sure about the backpack. I would ask the local ranger, my bet is that you can't.

    But if Hunting is allowed on the Lakeshore property you can OC with a small game license since some animals are open all year, rock doves, starlings, english sparrow, and Check groundhogs, I think they are as well.
    I believe thiscarry method (in bold)to bea violation of current laws.I believe aCCW charge would be issued even with an unloaded firearm.

  24. #24
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337

    Post imported post

    SIGfreed wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    sictransitgloria wrote:
    Sorry to butt in... i just lurk a lot with tons of questions....

    going up to pictured rocks (national lakeshore/park) this summer, no CPL, was wondering at the very least the legality of having an unloaded firearm in a backpack while hiking? and will stored properly in the car be alright as well?

    You can have it stored properly in your vehicle for sure. I'm not sure about the backpack. I would ask the local ranger, my bet is that you can't.

    But if Hunting is allowed on the Lakeshore property you can OC with a small game license since some animals are open all year, rock doves, starlings, english sparrow, and Check groundhogs, I think they are as well.
    I believe thiscarry method (in bold)to bea violation of current laws.I believe aCCW charge would be issued even with an unloaded firearm.
    Sigfreed,

    You are correct, as it matters not whether the pistol is loaded, or even if it is inoperable (firing pin removed, slide removed, etc) as.... IN BACKPACK=CONCEALED. Somehow affixed in plain sight, though, MAY be acceptable. I would inquire at the ranger station.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    michigan, ,
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    that makes sense. then that begs the question what about in a tent? so confusing. and along with that other thread about getting charged with ccw without a cpl just for car storage......man.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •