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Thread: What we send an LEO

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    Last edited by T Vance; 12-07-2010 at 04:45 PM.

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    Last edited by T Vance; 12-07-2010 at 04:45 PM.

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    Last edited by T Vance; 12-07-2010 at 04:45 PM.

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    Well done.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    Good afternoon Mr. Vance,

    My name is F/Lt. Jim Shaw and I am the Post Commander of the Jackson Post.We had the opportunity to meet at the last Jackson County Gun Board when you appeared and received your CPL. As you requested your e-mail to our Webmaster was forwarded to my office.

    I appreciate your e-mail providing additional information on "open carry" for Michigan citizens. Our troopersareaware ofthe legislation addressing "open carry" of firearms for citizens and how to respond accordingly.

    As we discussed at the Gun Board meeting the concept of "open carry" of firearms in public isfairly new tomanycitizens and thus has generated calls to dispatch by citizens feelingthere is a potential risk to public safety. On some of those cases officers have been dispatched to investigate.

    Officers and dispatchers are aware of the "open carry" provisions, as well as other firearm legislation addressing the possession and carrying of firearms which will assist them in the decision making process on whether to dispatch a patrol unit.Given that there may still be circumstances where officers are dispatchedto investigate someone who is"open carrying" a firearm based on information received from the complainant, even though the citizen is legally carrying the weapon.

    If circumstances warrant it law enforcement officers do have a public safety obligation to investigate potential weapon violations whether dispatched or observed on patrol. (NO they don't! not just for Open Carry. They can't even lawfully detain you for just open carry. When will they realize that? If the only reason for the interaction is the firearm, they have no legal reason to detain, take a weapon, run a number, demand ID .etc.............................................. .......................) With their knowledge oflaws, and specifically "open carry" provisions, they will continue to be professional in their contacts and response.

    Thank you again Mr. Vance for your e-mail providing information onthe "open carry" of firearms in Michigan. If you have any questions or concerns please contact me at the Post. My direct phone number is (517) 780-4599.

    Sincerely,

    F/Lt. Jim Shaw



    F/Lt. Jim Shaw
    Michigan State Police
    Jackson Post
    3401 Cooper St.
    Jackson, MI 49201
    517.780.4580
    FAX 517.782.0120
    Shawj@michigan.gov
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    You are so right venator!! When will they get it
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I'd be happy if they'd just be mature about not knowing. Instead they replace ignorance with aggression. Speaking from personal experience, and from others experiences as well.

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    Last edited by T Vance; 12-07-2010 at 04:45 PM.

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    Last edited by T Vance; 12-07-2010 at 04:46 PM.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    He seems to get it ... and I do know that many times a person calling 911 will embellish what they see if it is something that bothers them like OC.... I have had several interactions with the state police since carrying and they have been very professional and nice to deal with on each occasion.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    T Vance wrote:
    Good morning Mr. Vance,

    I agree. What Imeant by thesentence was officers are duty bound (No they are not duty bound. If I called and said a black man is walking down my street and I'm scared are they going to send a car??? I doubt it, not with out more RAS and PC. If I called and said I see an adult man walking down the street with a child and I believe he might be a sex offender are they sending a car, probably not. SO this duty bound excuse is just that, an excuse to infring on our lawful activity because it's not politically correct.) to investigate situations when dispatched orwhen they observesuspiciouscircumstances. If an officer is dispatched to investigate a person based on what information a citizen has provided to dispatch then they have a duty to respond even though a crime may not be occurring.

    A good example would be a suspicious vehicle.Often there are times citizens report a suspicious vehicle and an officer is dispatched.On many occasions the concerns are found to be unfounded once the officer investigates. Anexample might be a vehicle in the driveway of someoneon vacationwhere officers determine the subject was someone coming over with thehomeowners permission to feed animals or water plants.

    The intent of that sentence was just to state that even with a knowledge of "open carry" by officers and dispatchers there are still going to be circumstanceswhere officers may be dispatched and/or investigate something they observe on patrol based on the circumstances either reported or observed.

    Once making contactand making the determination there is no crime then that would be the end of the contact, no different than anytime officers are dispatched or respond to investigate suspicious persons/vehicles.

    I hope this provides some clarification on my statement. Please feel free to give me a call or stop by the Post if you wish to discuss further.

    Sincerely,

    F/Lt. Jim Shaw
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Good work with the follow up Vance.

    I agree in regards to it being an excuse Venator, an excuse wrapped up in the Blue cloth of the Law. If they don't Look as though they are doing there civil duties, then there could be call for downsizing. At least it seems he is trying to "Do Right" by everyone, which is nearly impossible.


    I also think that your apples to oranges comparison is much better then his vehicle in a home. One being based entirely on 'potential' illegal act. And the other being a suspected 'Illegal act in progress'.

    Although, to understand our dilemmas in teaching law enforcement, We need to understand that until the 'John Q. Public's' feels at ease; We will most likely be at odds with LEO indefinitely.

    As I'm sure most have realized, human beings need to Rationalization. Perhaps more so then just about anything else. So don't expect the excuses from LEO and un-informed citizens to let up for awhile.

    Knowledge is Power!




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    BreakingTheMold wrote:
    Although, to understand our dilemmas in teaching law enforcement, We need to understand that until the 'John Q. Public's' feels at ease; We will most likely be at odds with LEO indefinitely.
    Really the power is in the hands of the police and not the public. The public may NEVER get used to open carry, BUT the LEO has to follow the law and the law is on our side. There is no need to be at odds. Once the LEO's know that open carry is legal, and by now I'm betting nearly all are aware, there should be NO interactions unless something else is afoot. Public be damned.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    As the Lt. said, they are 'Duty bound" I'm sure that's the general consensus among LEO. Whether they know it or now, As displayed in Detroit last month. The state police, who should indeed be knowledgeable about MOC laws. Neglected to do anything. Only time will tell.

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