Open Carry Issues to and from military installations

imported post

Hopefully we can give and receive assistance/advice for those who see the need to open carry to/from work, when work happens to be located on a military installation.

I work on a military installation and recently have been looking up military regulations/instructions on the issue of OC/CC and vehicle search and seizure procedures (for Navy). It's OPNAVINST 5530.14E link: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/navy/opnavinst/5530_14e.pdf

It states that with ICO (Installation Commanding Officer) authorization, you can store your personal weapon on base. My question would be, has anyone attempted to get authorization to store their personal weapon on a daily check in/check out process?

Another question, if the above is authorized, why are there still signs at the gates that bringing weapons on base is prohibited. What if you're authorized by ICO? I know it's obvious, but why 2 contradicting statements?

Another question OT, search and seizure on military installation. Do you have same rights as you do off base? Is there documentation to state either way? It does go into it somewhat in the above link, but does not state about if being pulled over while on base, only that you have the right not to have your vehicle searched when coming on a base, but if you don't you'll be refused entry.

imported post

During my short timein the service, I seem to remember signage about entering militarybases. By doing so, you automatically give consent to the CO ofthe installation to inspect any vehicle entering his base.You surrendered your rights when you passed the fence.

Someone want to try to get a photo of one of those signs near a gate? It may be difficult to do because you may incur the wrath of security forces in the area. They don't like you taking photos on or near military bases, either. They post signs about that, too. :uhoh:

I'm trying to find photos of some of these signs. I may be able to take a photo of one tomorrow.

imported post

I know every Marine base I've been to has signs stating somethin along the lines of by entering this instalation you give consent to search of person and property. Along with when you enter certain sensitive areas/buildings. I know where I work the MP's like to randomly bring there dogs over to us to do random search to see if we have any ordinance in our vehicle. But then again the security on Quantico is a joke especially with some of the stuff located on base.





Semper Fi

imported post

From the way I understand the OPNAVINST on Administrative search checkpoints is that you can refuse consent to a search, but you will be required to leave the base if you refuse. I haven't seen any information/documentation stating that you give up your Constitutional right in reference to vehicle search.

imported post

That sounds about right. If you don't consent, then you have to leave.

imported post

I have been retired for a while so things may have changed. When I was in the USAF, the searches indicated on the signage had to be random.

The Base Commander essentially had the power of a magistrate on "his" installation. In this capacity, he would give orders to the Security Police/Security Forces to search cars. These orders always included the time that the searches were to be conducted as well as the stop pattern. For example, an order might say, between the hours of X and Y, you will search every third vehicle entering or exiting the base at Gate Z. He could order any combination of these variables. He could not legally order the security personnel to do a random stop on cars with tag XYZ-123 as the search would be no longer random and thus subject to standards of probable cause.

Searches which did not fall under the category of random searches were subject to probable cause standards. Our procedure was that we would call the attorney (Staff Judge Advocate) who served as the Base Commander's legal adviser and discuss our probable cause with him. If he was comfortable with our information, we then contacted the Base Commander and gave him our probable cause to get our search authorization. Probably the most major difference between the civilian process and our process is that our warrants could be issued verbally as long as it was backed up in writing as soon as practical.

imported post

gotsig wrote:

I know every Marine base I've been to has signs stating somethin along the lines of by entering this instalation you give consent to search of person and property. Along with when you enter certain sensitive areas/buildings. I know where I work the MP's like to randomly bring there dogs over to us to do random search to see if we have any ordinance in our vehicle. But then again the security on Quantico is a joke especially with some of the stuff located on base.





Semper Fi

Click to expand...

Quantico Is definately a joke. I used to work for Mayflower Movers, most days the guards didn't even have me open the truck, they'd just wave us on through if they recognized the driver. Even when we did have to open the truck, the MP would just stick his head in, give a quick glance around and send us on our way.

Andrew's and Belvoir on the other hand......I could tell some amusing stories of truck drivers held at gunpoint.....

imported post

I been active duty for 20 years and every military base sets its own policies for personally owned weapons (POW). Fort Lee has POW ranges and the post regulation allows someone to bring a weapon on base as long as it is in a locked container such as the trunk and is unloaded. Kind of like traveling through Maryland. If you live on base you must register your firearms with the Provost Marshall. Most base policies & regulations can be found on the base homepage. CC or OC is not authorized on any military installation if you are not LEO.

imported post

My experience with personally owned arms on base is so old, it's probably not relevant to today's environment. However, you might find the difference between now and then a little amusing.

Late 70's. I was a young sailor living in the barracks on base. I had a couple of long guns for hunting and a handgun. I had to keep them in the armory on base, which was not a problem. It was quite common, actually.

If I were going hunting for the weekend, I just stopped by the armory on my way out and checked out my guns. The trick was always Sunday night comiing back in when the armory was closed. Technically, I was to report directly to the armory to check them in. I would announce to the gate guard, that I had my personal arms. (I also had a tag from the armory which would prove that I did indeed, keep them stored there). The gate guard, instead of waking up some poor schmuk, would simply tell me, "you make sure you get your butt down to the armory first thng in the morninig to check them in." After about twice of that, I stopped announcing my status to the guard.

Although we had the signs that said vehicles were subject to search, blah, blah, blah... I never head of anyone getting their vehicle searched at random on the way in. If they got searched, there was a reason.

Shortly after 9/11 I reported to a Coast Guard base (as a civilian) for a week long school. I was coming directly from a shooting event and still had my sidearm with me, in a locked container. In this case, I did announce my status to the guard, and asked for directions to the armory. He was very casual about it. Told me how to get there, and called ahead to let them know I was coming. The armory was equally casual about the whole thing. It was no big deal. I was really prepared for the third degree over my sidearm.

I'm pretty sure theidea of physically carrying the arm is out tho.

imported post

The Coast Guard is used to having weapons coming in and out of their armores 24/7. There is always a Duty GM (Gunners Mate) available (it may take them up to an hour to get there). Even before 9/11/01, we were used to daily business being armed. On one boarding in the 80's, I had someone aske me "I never noticed the Coast Guard carrying guns; How long have they been doing that?" I replied "Oh, since about 1790 (When the Revenue Cutter Service was formed).

imported post

If you have consent from the proper official on base, post or what have you, then you ought to know that the sign does not apply to you.  You've got a lawful exception to the signage.  The consent does not vitiate the power to search once you come onto the property, but it does provide a legal basis for possession of the firearm.  Just be prepared to produce a copy of the order.

imported post

For the NAVY bases you have to jump thru alot of hoops. then they give you a card if you make it thru the hoops. You have to go strait to and from the armory and gate i have known people who have had a police escort. And if you get stopped anywhere off a strait line to the armory all bets are off. I think there was a post on here somewhere where a guy got arrested and his gut taken while at an exchange.

imported post

Normally when I know that I am going to a base I just leave the gun at home. However there have been a few occasions where I have had to enter the base with it on my person, the key here being "on my person." Every random vehicle inspection I have ever had, and there have been lots of them in the 22 years I was in, were just that, "vehicle inspection,"they never search the person. About 3 weeks ago I got my vehicle searched during an unplanned visittothe Little Creek Navy Exchange, they had me and the wife stand off to the side while two officers searched my car and found nothing, all the while I had my Sig safely tucked inside my jeans center back..Is it legal, No... Would I recommend it, No.. But it happens.