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Thread: ATF raids Victorville, CA gun store

  1. #1
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    Another Calvary Arms?

    http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_12380186

    Federal agents on Friday raided a Victorville gun store, seizing 196 firearms and the owner's business records.

    Steven Mitchell, owner of Lock Stock & Barrel on Bear Valley Boulevard, could not be reached for comment. He was not arrested.

    Agents from the Department of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives served a search warrant at the gun store and Mitchell's Apple Valley home, said ATF spokesman Mike Hoffman. He said a dozen more firearms and ammunition were taken from the house in the 9500 block of Bellview Avenue.

    The search warrant was sealed, barring Hoffman from revealing what prompted the raid.
    Sealed to who?

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    NO arrest, yet, they still seized property?

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    There is a thread about this over on calguns, too, but nobody knows any details yet.

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=184597

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    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    NO arrest
    , yet, they still seized property?
    Just like in the incident in Connecticut. Nothing but Fed thuggery.

    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    As we used to say in the Army,,,BOHICA, meaning "Bend over here it comes again. I'm sure this is not the last of this kind of thing,,and it needs to CEASE NOW!!! Wonder what all this crap is about??
    Keep your powder dry!
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    http://sev.prnewswire.com/publishing...9052009-1.html

    GLENDALE, Calif., May 19 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Special Agent in Charge John A. Torres of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), Los Angeles Field Division, today announced a contact phone number for citizens to call who had firearms at Lock Stock and Barrel gun store in Victorville, Calif.
    On May 15, 2009, subsequent to federal court seizure warrants, ATF took possession of all of the firearms located at Lock Stock and Barrel, 15048 Bear Valley Rd., Suite B, Victorville, Calif.
    In order to file a claim for the return of a firearm, owners should call 1-818-265-2570 and provide their name, address and telephone number. A claim form will be mailed to them from ATF Headquarters in Washington, D.C. The claim form must be returned to ATF within 35 days from the date of the mailing.
    "It is our goal to return those firearms belonging to innocent owners as quickly and efficiently as possible," Torres said. "By calling the number provided, the gun owners can speak to an ATF employee who can provide them immediate attention."
    Individuals who have paid a deposit on a firearm currently subject to the 10-day waiting period need to contact Lock Stock and Barrel directly for a refund of their deposit.
    *** ATF contact phone number is: 1-818-265-2570 ***
    More information about ATF and its programs is available at www.atf.gov
    Contact: Michael Hoffman, Special Agent - PIO
    Office: (818) 265-2507
    Cell: (213) 925-4547
    michael.hoffman@atf.gov
    Website: http://www.atf.gov


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    Still no word as to why the shop was raided?

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    Reasons? REASONS? We don't need no stinkin' reasons!

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    In order to file a claim for the return of a firearm, owners should call 1-818-265-2570 and provide their name, address and telephone number. A claim form will be mailed to them from ATF Headquarters in Washington, D.C. The claim form must be returned to ATF within 35 days from the date of the mailing.
    "It is our goal to return those firearms belonging to innocent owners as quickly and efficiently as possible," Torres said. "By calling the number provided, the gun owners can speak to an ATF employee who can provide them immediate attention."
    Individuals who have paid a deposit on a firearm currently subject to the 10-day waiting period need to contact Lock Stock and Barrel directly for a refund of their deposit.
    hmm sounds like to me they are asking " here's the noose, stick your neck into it"

    sounds like infomation gathering to me,

    "It is our goal to return those firearms belonging to innocent owners as quickly and efficiently as possible,"

    well if the owner wasn't arrested, why the sealed warrant? looks like a 4th ammendment issue brewing, his attorney will have to go thru a "right of discovery"

    as to figure out as to what "prompted" this siezure maybe they were after a customer , i thought only the IRS could act this way

    enjoy churchmouse

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    This is SOP for the BATFE, they don't even know what The constitution is, and no Court or Politician has ever taken them to task for it. It would seem as if they are being encouraged to act this way.........

    It's not paranoia when the evidence supports it.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    ixtow wrote:
    This is SOP for the BATFE, they don't even know what The constitution is, and no Court or Politician has ever taken them to task for it. It would seem as if they are being encouraged to act this way.........

    It's not paranoia when the evidence supports it.
    They HAVE been slapped, HARD, a number of times, the Katona case being one. They were forced to return the man's automatic weapons, and inventory them in his driveway, as I recall. Reports were that they were none too happy about it either. I don't recall what sort of compensation he received.

    Then there was their $4.6 million settlement with their own Black agents for discrimination, harassment, intimidation, etc.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    But they're still doing it. They haven't missed a beat.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  13. #13
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    ixtow wrote:
    This is SOP for the BATFE, they don't even know what The constitution is, and no Court or Politician has ever taken them to task for it. It would seem as if they are being encouraged to act this way.........

    It's not paranoia when the evidence supports it.
    Is it even remotely possible that LS&B may have violated some federal gun law(s)?

  14. #14
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    HankT wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    This is SOP for the BATFE, they don't even know what The constitution is, and no Court or Politician has ever taken them to task for it. It would seem as if they are being encouraged to act this way.........

    It's not paranoia when the evidence supports it.
    Is it even remotely possible that LS&B may have violated some federal gun law(s)?
    It's possible. It's possible they had a firearm on hand from a customer that was in violation of some federal gun law. There's a number of reasons why this may have turned out the way it did. Some of them legit. Some of them not so much.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    This is SOP for the BATFE, they don't even know what The constitution is, and no Court or Politician has ever taken them to task for it. It would seem as if they are being encouraged to act this way.........

    It's not paranoia when the evidence supports it.
    Is it even remotely possible that LS&B may have violated some federal gun law(s)?
    Hank,

    Are you really asking us to give the benefit of the doubt to the BATFE???

    Come on Hank, these are the people that said a shoestring was a machine gun.

    Live free or die,

    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    This is SOP for the BATFE, they don't even know what The constitution is, and no Court or Politician has ever taken them to task for it. It would seem as if they are being encouraged to act this way.........

    It's not paranoia when the evidence supports it.
    Is it even remotely possible that LS&B may have violated some federal gun law(s)?
    There is no legitimacy to a sealed warrant. Period. Also, what Federal Gun Law complies with "shall not be infringed???" But let's not drag this thread down that oft-traveled road. To me, the very existence of the agency is treason.

    Your point is taken, but!

    Their reputation precedes them. In that light, I no longer feel any compunction to consider legitimacy.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  17. #17
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    ixtow wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    This is SOP for the BATFE, they don't even know what The constitution is, and no Court or Politician has ever taken them to task for it. It would seem as if they are being encouraged to act this way.........

    It's not paranoia when the evidence supports it.
    Is it even remotely possible that LS&B may have violated some federal gun law(s)?
    There is no legitimacy to a sealed warrant. Period. Also, what Federal Gun Law complies with "shall not be infringed???" But let's not drag this thread down that oft-traveled road. To me, the very existence of the agency is treason.

    Your point is taken, but!

    Their reputation precedes them. In that light, I no longer feel any compunction to consider legitimacy.
    Ahhh, pure, pristine, unadulterated....prejudice.

    Got it.

    Carry on.



  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    You have a remarkable skill for calling a Spade a ****...

    They have a reputation, and they earned it. That does not make me 'prejudiced.' it means I have an IQ above room temperature. Biased, certainly; by the reality of their frequent and severe criminal behavior.

    I think I'm going to mail out lightning-bolt arm bands to all the branch offices...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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