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Thread: If California Sucks So Much...

  1. #1
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    ...why are so many people there?

    Back East, we never hear anything positive about California.

    As I look at the State, I see gorgeous scenery, the best weather and decent things to do.

    Just how bad is life in California, all in all?

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    We lived in CA from 94 until 02. High taxes, high cost of living, crime,criminal aliens.

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    As far as I can tell (having never been there), it's not so much the place as it is the people.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    The cost of living and the taxes do suck. While I believe a well-armed citizenry would reduce the crime to levels which would negate the (apparent) requirement for militarized police, I'm not afraid personally.

    Statistically, it's high enough that armed victims could reduce the numbers for the good of society. It's also low enough that your personal odds of being a victim aren't especially high.

    I dunno, there's a lot I like about California, and a lot I don't. Funnily enough, I felt the same way about Virginia (there are surprising similarities, although the gun laws suck and our taxes are definitely higher here in CA).

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    FogRider wrote:
    As far as I can tell (having never been there), it's not so much the place as it is the people.
    Well, you've never been here. It certainly is the place. Ever been to a redwood forest? Ever drive up the PCH? Ever go to the mountains in Santa Cruz? The beach in Monterey?

    California has some of the most stunning geography of anywhere I've yet driven (which is a reasonably decent list), and lots of variety (high deserts, low deserts, mediterranean vineyards, snowy mountain, green mountains, etc etc etc).

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    marshaul wrote:
    FogRider wrote:
    As far as I can tell (having never been there), it's not so much the place as it is the people.
    Well, you've never been here. It certainly is the place. Ever been to a redwood forest? Ever drive up the PCH? Ever go to the mountains in Santa Cruz? The beach in Monterey?

    California has some of the most stunning geography of anywhere I've yet driven (which is a reasonably decent list), and lots of variety (high deserts, low deserts, mediterranean vineyards, snowy mountain, green mountains, etc etc etc).
    That's what I was trying to say. The place is great, many of the people, not so much.

    And if you were agreeing with me, ok. I'm having trouble telling today.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    FogRider wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    FogRider wrote:
    As far as I can tell (having never been there), it's not so much the place as it is the people.
    Well, you've never been here. It certainly is the place. Ever been to a redwood forest? Ever drive up the PCH? Ever go to the mountains in Santa Cruz? The beach in Monterey?

    California has some of the most stunning geography of anywhere I've yet driven (which is a reasonably decent list), and lots of variety (high deserts, low deserts, mediterranean vineyards, snowy mountain, green mountains, etc etc etc).
    That's what I was trying to say. The place is great, many of the people, not so much.

    And if you were agreeing with me, ok. I'm having trouble telling today.
    Oh, well I would have agreed with you, but I thought you were saying the opposite (that is, the people are great but the place sucks).

    Now, with that said, I personally know a lot of good people here. And I know surprisingly few who want to take my guns away; I get the impression that the Sarah Bradys are responsible for anti-RKBA in California far more than any spontaneous popular sentiment. Really, a lot of the people I know, while they may not be gun owners, are too concerned with the ever-increasing infringements on our civil rights to demand the nullification of any of them, even ones they don't personally exercise.

    Then again, maybe I just gravitate to people on the same wavelength or something.

    For what it's worth, I blame L.A. Now, the people there are real ********!

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    Think of it like this: If a high school bus passed you on the road, and a couple of jokesters mooned you, you'd probably have a low opinion of the rest of the folks on the bus, the school itself, and maybe even the school district, because two a-holes left a bad impression on you.

    A lot of folks in the liberal bastions of LA and the SF bay area are like the two mooners.They're giving the rest of us on the bus a bad name.

    All joking aside, there is a lot of "different" thinking going on in some circles of LA, SF and at the state Capitol, as compared to a lot of the rest of the country. (I don't want to paint with too broad a brush, fellow CA residents, so keep your flame throwers in neutral for a little bit and hear me out... I know I am speaking in generalities)

    I live near Sacramento, have since '79, and having been a military brat and having lived in SoCal, NorCal, Maryland, and Alabama, Sacramento is one of my favorites (San Clemente being a close second). The Sacramento valley is one of those really unique places that is centrally located to a great deal of different places to go. Two hours east and you're in the High Sierras where you can fish, camp, ski, hike, 4-wheel across the Rubicon Trail among other wonderful outdoor activities.

    Less than 90 minutes west and you are in the San Francisco Bay area. All of the charm of the "City by the Bay", the coast as well as the Napa wine region inland a ways.

    South of Sacramento is some of the most fertile farmland in the world, head north and you have the stunning areas along the northern coast, Mt. Shasta and lots of hunting and fishing areas.

    All of this is within a few hours drive from Sacramento. I haven't mentioned all of the other great things throughout the state that is beyond a day-trip from Sac. I am sure the office of tourism has all the scoop; I wanted to mention some of the reasons why many of us stay in California, in spite of all the liberal wackiness, especially when it comes to firearms.

    It is sad to hear that back east all that is heard is negativity about the Golden State. Many of us are trying to make the change from within, rather than bail. Don't think I haven't thought about pulling up stakes and heading to Nevada, but my son is still in school and I've decided to stay until I see him off to college.

    So is it bad here in California? Yes and no. Yes, the anti-gun climate is horrendous, as is the knuckleheadedness of our state legislature and government, but when you love the state for state's-sake, you'd just hate to leave and have the knuckleheads ruin such a gem. That is why many of us here are working hard to correct the mistakes and get the state back on track. For open carry and other 2nd amendment issues, Heller and Nordyke are steps in the right direction.

    Besides, if we told everybody how wonderful it is they'd all want to come out and never leave!:P



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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Excellent sentiment. +1

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    I'm sticking around to see what happens next......

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    The wife and I have a name to describe all the crappy things about California, we call it the "California Tax". A tax that must be paid (for now) so we can enjoy the wonderful weather and beautiful places California has to offer.

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    I was born in California and moved around all my life due to military for one reason or another.

    I have lived in Europe, Mid-Atlantic US, and Western US, and I am not sure yet which I like the most.

    Virginia was a beautiful state and had plenty of green, but it seemed to me that it was difficult to make something of yourself if you were not part of the establishment (i.e. grew up with money or into the good graces of them).

    California, is also a beautiful state. I remember as a child gold panning in Nor-Cal in the mountains. Redwoods that seemed to never end and riding inner tubes down small natural water slides.

    I used to complain about Virginia and its high taxes as well. Between the property tax, city stickers, safety inspections, luxury taxes and the extreme expense in forming a business, but I also recall going to school there. There were plenty of books, we disected animals in biology, and we even had Russian available to study. We were safe and educated. I also remember that I could walk in a VA DMV and get just about anything done in a manner of minutes, even walking out of DMV with your brand new DL (printed on site).

    Going to college here in California I went to college where nearly 80% of the class didn't know what a triple beam balance was, or that had never dissected a worm or a frog. DMV sucks, the roads suck. Everyone wants to take your money to give to everyone else that is either too lazy to stupid to make it on their own.

    But I still can't decide which I loved more. I hate California, but just can't bring myself to move back to Virginia yet. . . And I have no real idea why.

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    I hate California, but just can't bring myself to move back to Virginia yet. . . And I have no real idea why.
    If you ever fly out to CA from VA in the middle of a biter cold winter or a sopping wet humid summer the reason is immediate.

    Over the last few years I have taken many business trips and at least one pleasure trip to CA, including one trip for training which lasted almost 3 months.

    Geographically and weather-wise, CA is about the closest thing to a paradise I have seen in the continental US. "Winter" in the Bay area consists of a few rainy days where the temperature never drops below 40 degrees. Most days are sunny and clear and breezy, and every minute not spent outdoors feels like a mortal sin. Southern CA near LA is equally beautiful and sunny, but more desert-style. The deserts, the mountains, Yosemite and Sequoia NPs, the gigantic trees. It's all amazing, and very easy to see why people love it, especially if they grew up there. I grew up in anti-gun extremist zone New Jersey and I still like it there, although I won't move back home is always home.

    People-wise you cannot generalize. CA is bigger than most countries. What you find in Santa Cruz is way different than what you find in the Sierra mountains. San Francisco is a great city, beautiful buildings and streets, nice restaurants, lots to do, and mostly nice people. Of course it's run by statist idiots, what city isn't these days? No reason not to have fun. LA is not so fun; it's like a giant suburb and only parts of it are cool for certain things.

    There is a much more crunchy-granola hippy dudely-dude stoner outlook on things generally, probably because of the weather drawing lots of slackers for a century and a half. The same frontier freedom that drew pioneers to the west also drew dreamers and idealists of various stripes, leading to loss of freedom in many ways, perhaps. I also got the feel that there was more popular involvement in politics and civics, the whole worshipping democracy thing, which combines with celebrity worship to give you mediocrities like Gov. Ahnold.

    I also noticed LOTS of homeless people. Santa Cruz is a neat little seashore town but you have to avoid the bums hanging out on the sidewalks. Outside Sacramento along the Amtrak line I noticed lots of shanty tent villages with garbage all over the place. My theory is that the nice weather makes it easier for lazy people to keep being bums. And the CA economy, with its high taxes and greentarded BS,makes it easier to become a bum. Many towns are "sanctuaries" for bums, I've heard, which doesn't help.

    Nice place to visit, but wouldn't want to live there...yet. Maybe if the politics change someday.



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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Theseus wrote:
    I was born in California and moved around all my life due to military for one reason or another.

    I have lived in Europe, Mid-Atlantic US, and Western US, and I am not sure yet which I like the most.

    Virginia was a beautiful state and had plenty of green, but it seemed to me that it was difficult to make something of yourself if you were not part of the establishment (i.e. grew up with money or into the good graces of them).

    California, is also a beautiful state. I remember as a child gold panning in Nor-Cal in the mountains. Redwoods that seemed to never end and riding inner tubes down small natural water slides.

    I used to complain about Virginia and its high taxes as well. Between the property tax, city stickers, safety inspections, luxury taxes and the extreme expense in forming a business, but I also recall going to school there. There were plenty of books, we disected animals in biology, and we even had Russian available to study. We were safe and educated. I also remember that I could walk in a VA DMV and get just about anything done in a manner of minutes, even walking out of DMV with your brand new DL (printed on site).

    Going to college here in California I went to college where nearly 80% of the class didn't know what a triple beam balance was, or that had never dissected a worm or a frog. DMV sucks, the roads suck. Everyone wants to take your money to give to everyone else that is either too lazy to stupid to make it on their own.

    But I still can't decide which I loved more. I hate California, but just can't bring myself to move back to Virginia yet. . . And I have no real idea why.
    Yup. I'm in very much the same boat. I feel exactly the same way about Virginia compared to California (so far, my two favorite places, at least for residence).

    Although, if the gun laws start to get better here I might really not want to leave.

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    marshaul wrote:
    Oh, well I would have agreed with you, but I thought you were saying the opposite (that is, the people are great but the place sucks).
    I think we're on the same page.

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    I WAS BORN IN SO. DAKOTA RAISED IN THE REPUBLIC OF CALIFORNIA. I'M CONVINCED THAT THE WEATHER IS WHY THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE HERE. EVEN THE EARTHQUAKES DON'T SEEM TO KEEP THEM AWAY. BUT CA. HAS SOME OF THE WORST LAWS ON THE BOOKS. GUN LAWS THAT IS. HELL WE JUST GOT TO MANY LAWS. THE STATE IS BEING TAKEN OVER BY LIBERALS AND ILLEGAL ALIENS. IT'S JUST ONE CRAZY STATE, PERIOD. ALL I KNOW, IF BULLETS WERE MONEY I'D BE A FLIPPIN MILLIONAIRE. I'VE BEEN TO VA ITS BEAUTIFUL. I'LL TADE PLACES WITH YOU. THAT'S JUST MY SPIN ON IT.

    .308 LEAVES LARGE HOLES IN LOST SOULS.

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    KAISER-MAN wrote:
    I'M CONVINCED THAT THE WEATHER IS WHY THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE HERE. EVEN THE EARTHQUAKES DON'T SEEM TO KEEP THEM AWAY.
    I agree, the weather is pretty nice... except the past couple days - 107F yesterday! "Only" 97F today... 8 months out of the year it's pretty nice though... unless you're allergic to everything like I am. Beautiful weather, but if I go outside I get a sinus headache and an asthma attack from the pollen... maybe that's why I'm ready to jump ship and head for less plant-friendly weather...

    Earthquakes... I don't think they're a big deal. I've been in Central CA for 20 years now and have only felt 4 quakes. One of them (the biggest one since I've lived here...1992?) knocked me off my feet, the others were just like, "hey the house moved just now." Earthquakes didn't even earn a spot on my list of reasons to not live in this state.
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    smoking357 wrote:
    ...why are so many people there?

    Back East, we never hear anything positive about California.

    As I look at the State, I see gorgeous scenery, the best weather and decent things to do.

    Just how bad is life in California, all in all?
    It's a nice place to visit, but that's about it. I was born in Cal., grew up there and spent a good chunk of my adult life there before escaping. I'm in Nevada and I still go back to Cal. to visit family and friends, but it's always a bit of a culture shock.

    The major highways are wrecks, with large potholes in them. The newspapers tell a daily tale of carjackings, home invasions, ATM robberies, shootings of all sorts (freeway, drive by's, etc)---all while the honest citizen can't carry and protect themselves. I find it a shock to travel through the little towns of Jackson, Sonora and others in the foothills and see 'wanted' posters in the gas stations and little cafes. The posters tell of criminals wanted for all sorts of various crimes, and we don't have these posters in Nevada.

    The weather is often nice. SoCal in winter is a great change from the snow and cold elsewhere. The scenery can often be nice, if you can see it. Often , there is a poisonous brown cloud called smog that blankets much of the state preventing you from seeing the mountains. This smog makes it hard for lots of folks to breath, along with killing crops and forests.

    Decent things to do? Yeah, I like the Wild Animal Park, the San Diego Zoo, Cal. Adventure/Disneyland, the Santa Cruz Boardwalk, San Francisco, Sacramento with its' museums and state fair. Like I said, a nice place to visit and you hope you make it out of the state without being a crime statistic or having a car wreck from the way most citizens drive.

    Of course, when you spend money you can plan on paying a sales tax of 9.78% in most places. Property taxes are often sky high to offset the lack of tax revenue from parcels protected by Prop. 13. So why are so many people in California? Beats me. Maybe because they don't know any better?

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Theseus wrote:
    ...the roads suck ...
    Personally I think the roads in Cali are 2nd only to the German Countryside - it's the traffic that sucks

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    mjones wrote:
    Theseus wrote:
    ...*the roads suck ...
    Personally I think the roads in Cali are 2nd only to the German Countryside - it's the traffic that sucks
    Must be because you don't live in the Bay area. The roads here are truly terrible, by far the worst I've seen in any state (and several European countries).

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    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    First, remember that California is a HUGE state. Bigger then several average states combined. It's geography, climate, and people vary vastly.

    I was born and raised here, in Sonoma County, about an hour north of San Francisco. I've traveled a lot. I've been to much of the US. I've been to 30+ countries. I've been to all seven continents. I always want to come home. I don't want to live anywhere else.



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    Agree with Mudcamper. I've been around the world and I, I, I.... Actually in Australia, I almost just walked away and became an Australian. Good thing I didn't though, for obvious reasons. Other than that, I really can't think of anywhere else I'd rather be. To me, all the other cool places in the US (or the world for that matter) are nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

    There's not too many states that can have all-around board shops that sell, snow boards, skate boards, and surf boards to regular customers who would use all three items in a 4 month period.

    And since we're on the right track after so many years of losing rights, pretty soon we'll have 'em all back and it'll be like the gold rush all over again. People will flock to the state.



    PS - Nukechaser, you DO sound like you work for the tourism board!

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    PRC-E6 wrote:
    PS - Nukechaser, you DO sound like you work for the tourism board!
    Nah, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once.

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    marshaul wrote:
    mjones wrote:
    Theseus wrote:
    ...the roads suck ...
    Personally I think the roads in Cali are 2nd only to the German Countryside - it's the traffic that sucks
    Must be because you don't live in the Bay area. The roads here are truly terrible, by far the worst I've seen in any state (and several European countries).
    My regular travel around Stanislaus county has trained me to know where the potholes are on Hwy 99, as well as just about every exit between Modesto & Turlock. Most of them are pretty minor, but they just never get fixed. For the amount of taxation we endure for the sake of the roads, you'd think they could at least fill them in once a year.

    I've been to every state west of the Rockies (except Hawaii), and have found that CA has the worst roads and the highest taxes. Just doesn't add up...
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    Being one who loves the beaches and riding a motorcycle, I would love to live in CA.

    Being one who hates taxes, liberal controlled government and anti 2nd ammendment laws, I am glad I live in AZ

    But I will be there this summer to vacation. No matter what, it is a beautiful state and a fun place to visit.

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