HOOK , LINE , & SPOILER EFFECT

R a Z o R · May 18, 2009

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Would you knowingly bet all your money on a horse with a broken leg to win ?

Voting for a Third Party candidate takes votes away from a similar candidate that is either the Democrat or the Republican . The SPOILER EFFECT is also called the Nader Effect or Perot Effect .

Would you knowingly vote against the Right to Keep and Bear Arms ?

Does the Brady Bunch want us to lose our 2A by using the SPOILER EFFECT against us ? Are we that dumb to let it happen again ?

OK , until we change the rules of our election systems ,let's not vote to help elect the more evil of the two that we know without any doubt is anti-gun into office . Protest votingfor a Third Party or not voting only helps the Brady Bunch .

Do you hate to lose by being played a fool ?

________________________________________________________

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect

FogRider · May 18, 2009

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And if I can't stand voting for either of the two main parties? What do I then? Take the last election, for instance. I wasn't going to vote for Obama, but on the other hand I wasn't going to have any part in helping Palin any farther than where she is now. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.

AWDstylez · May 18, 2009

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FogRider wrote:

And if I can't stand voting for either of the two main parties? What do I then? Take the last election, for instance. I wasn't going to vote for Obama, but on the other hand I wasn't going to have any part in helping Palin any farther than where she is now. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.

x infinity

We have horrible and horrific spoon fed to us each election. As long as people take the attitude of, "oh well a third party has no chance," we'll just keep being stuck with what we're fed. These elections are just a masquerade, the outcome is already predetermined. It's like someone saying you're free to choose any drink you want, then putting a Bud and a Corona in front of you to choose from. What if you don't like beer?

marshaul · May 18, 2009

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Razor fails to understand that, rather than being a part of the solution, he is the problem.

bugly · May 18, 2009

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AWDstylez wrote:

FogRider wrote:

And if I can't stand voting for either of the two main parties? What do I then? Take the last election, for instance. I wasn't going to vote for Obama, but on the other hand I wasn't going to have any part in helping Palin any farther than where she is now. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.

Click to expand...

x infinity

We have horrible and horrific spoon fed to us each election. As long as people take the attitude of, "oh well a third party has no chance," we'll just keep being stuck with what we're fed. These elections are just a masquerade, the outcome is already predetermined. It's like someone saying you're free to choose any drink you want, then putting a Bud and a Corona in front of you to choose from. What if you don't like beer?

Eeeeeeeew! Neither one is even beer! Guinness, baby!
This is what I've been telling people for years, there are more than two candidates and guess where the "big two" came from? That's right! The now-defunkt but still in charge "Democratic Republicans" They split the party and have had control ever since, mainly because they are the same guys on both sides, kind of like not having a vote at all...but at least you can feel like you "stuck it to those damned _________s" (take your pick, they're all the same.)
I defy anyone to prove this false.

R a Z o R · May 18, 2009

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FogRider wrote:

And if I can't stand voting for either of the two main parties? What do I then? Take the last election, for instance. I wasn't going to vote for Obama, but on the other hand I wasn't going to have any part in helping Palin any farther than where she is now. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.

FogRider ...

+1 I feel the same way . Plus I am not very happy with the results of the 2008 elections . Until we are able to fix our election system I will keep voting for the lesser evil and hope it is a lot lesser .

Remember helping the greater evil is helping the greater . I voted for Ross Perot and campaigned for Bo Gritz and learning from the failures from those Third Party experiences I am not going to stop campaigning for our RKBA , OC , and CC . I have been unaffiliated for over 25 years . My kids were the only ones on the block that were Centrist in Orange County , California .

What is our leader , OC John Pierce , talking about in the first blog under General Discussion at top of this page ?

If one does not have any positive remarks to this situation do you think they are self fulfilling more gun control ?

TOP BANANA :celebrate or DUMB MONKEY :monkey

Out of 100% of possible voters Obama only got 32% of the vote . Out of the 61% Obama got 52 % and that is about 32% of the total .

If you arehappy with the big chance of "Big Time Gun Control" keep on being a part of making it happen . On the other hand I am voting for my gun rights and for the person singing my song .

Bookman · May 18, 2009

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Voting for someone based on their stance on one issue is ludicrous. I voted third party because I firmly believe that both of the two major parties are too much alike. If we want change in government we can't keep voting in people who toe the party line. EITHER party line.

If you want change in government, change the way you vote. The Republicrats don't care about us. They care about being elected/reelected.

FogRider · May 18, 2009

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I'm reminded of Bill Hicks' take on the two party system:

"I'll show you politics in America. Here it is, right here. 'I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs.' 'I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking.' 'Hey, wait a minute, there's one guy holding out both puppets!'"

R a Z o R · May 18, 2009

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marshaul wrote:

Razor fails to understand that, rather than being a part of the solution, he is the problem.

marshall ...

The mathematical facts and the RELENTLESS LOGIC manifests a anti-2A POTUS in officewiththe likelihood of a second term .

What is your solution ?

Do you have a solution ?

Bo Gritz ... The Bill of [ Gritz] Rights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz

The Ruby Ridge hero and a Third Party for POTUS candidate I fought for .

marshall ...

That's not what you wrote on John Pierce's

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/25761.html

FogRider · May 18, 2009

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R a Z o R wrote:

marshaul wrote:

Razor fails to understand that, rather than being a part of the solution, he is the problem.

Click to expand...

marshall ...

The mathematical facts and the RELENTLESS LOGIC manifests a anti-2A POTUS in officewiththe likelihood of a second term .

What is your solution ?

Do you have a solution ?

Bo Gritz ... The Bill of [ Gritz] Rights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz Ruby Ridge

What would you have had us vote for? The unadulterated crazy that was most of the rest of the ballot? Frankly, I think I would rather fight for my 2A rights than have to hole up in the mountains somewhere because the other nutjobs I could have voted for destroyed what's left of the country.

Bookman · May 18, 2009

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R a Z o R wrote:

marshaul wrote:

Razor fails to understand that, rather than being a part of the solution, he is the problem.

Click to expand...

marshall ...

The mathematical facts and the RELENTLESS LOGIC manifests a anti-2A POTUS in officewiththe likelihood of a second term .

What is your solution ?

Do you have a solution ?

Bo Gritz ... The Bill of [ Gritz] Rights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz

The Ruby Ridge hero and a Third Party for POTUS candidate I fought for .

I'm just curious as to why you'd provide us with a link that paints your man as a whacked out conspiracy theorist.

R a Z o R · May 18, 2009

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Bookman wrote:

R a Z o R wrote:

marshaul wrote:

Razor fails to understand that, rather than being a part of the solution, he is the problem.

Click to expand...

marshall ...

The mathematical facts and the RELENTLESS LOGIC manifests a anti-2A POTUS in officewiththe likelihood of a second term .

What is your solution ?

Do you have a solution ?

Bo Gritz ... The Bill of [ Gritz] Rights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz

The Ruby Ridge hero and a Third Party for POTUS candidate I fought for .

Click to expand...

I'm just curious as to why you'd provide us with a link that paints your man as a whacked out conspiracy theorist.

marshall ...

Read slower after an home perrier enima at room temperature .

Gritz's curriculum vitae is belittled by the media as is our RKBA .

Let me know how things come out .

PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTIONSyou're painting yourself

Bookman · May 18, 2009

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Forgot to ask:

Did I miss something? When did the Army go to blue dress uniforms?

marine77 · May 18, 2009

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Bookman wrote:

Voting for someone based on their stance on one issue is ludicrous. I voted third party because I firmly believe that both of the two major parties are too much alike. If we want change in government we can't keep voting in people who toe the party line. EITHER party line.

If you want change in government, change the way you vote. The Republicrats don't care about us. They care about being elected/reelected.

+1 Amen. Since when has the presidential elections been two sided? I thought we

were free to vote how we wanted by the constitution and the bill of rights. I have

heard and reheard this time and again. I vote how i want to vote wether it's

democrat or republican or a third party. And i voted for the third party, the one i

thought could and would helpall americans.

Hef · May 18, 2009

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R a Z o R wrote:

Would you knowingly bet all your money on a horse with a broken leg to win ?

Voting for a Third Party candidate takes votes away from a similar candidate that is either the Democrat or the Republican . The SPOILER EFFECT is also called the Nader Effect or Perot Effect .

Would you knowingly vote against the Right to Keep and Bear Arms ?

Does the Brady Bunch want us to lose our 2A by using the SPOILER EFFECT against us ? Are we that dumb to let it happen again ?

OK , until we change the rules of our election systems ,let's not vote to help elect the more evil of the two that we know without any doubt is anti-gun into office . Protest votingfor a Third Party or not voting only helps the Brady Bunch .

Do you hate to lose by being played a fool ?

________________________________________________________

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect

There is a small difference between Democrats and Republicans today, and the gap closes a little more with each passing election. They have given us more of the same every year since I can remember, no matter who is in office.

So, we get more of the same because we only vote for one of 2 major parties, then we get upset when nothing changes. When someone comes along from a 3rd party, they don't get the votes because some idiot "wants their vote to count".

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results. That could also be the definition of stupidity.

Are you insane, or stupid?

AWDstylez · May 18, 2009

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Hef wrote:

R a Z o R wrote:

Would you knowingly bet all your money on a horse with a broken leg to win ?

Voting for a Third Party candidate takes votes away from a similar candidate that is either the Democrat or the Republican . The SPOILER EFFECT is also called the Nader Effect or Perot Effect .

Would you knowingly vote against the Right to Keep and Bear Arms ?

Does the Brady Bunch want us to lose our 2A by using the SPOILER EFFECT against us ? Are we that dumb to let it happen again ?

OK , until we change the rules of our election systems ,let's not vote to help elect the more evil of the two that we know without any doubt is anti-gun into office . Protest votingfor a Third Party or not voting only helps the Brady Bunch .

Do you hate to lose by being played a fool ?

________________________________________________________

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect

Click to expand...

There is a small difference between Democrats and Republicans today, and the gap closes a little more with each passing election. They have given us more of the same every year since I can remember, no matter who is in office.

So, we get more of the same because we only vote for one of 2 major parties, then we get upset when nothing changes. When someone comes along from a 3rd party, they don't get the votes because some idiot "wants their vote to count".

That's exactly it. What did Mr. Einstein say...

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

R a Z o R · May 18, 2009

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AWDstylez wrote:

Hef wrote:

R a Z o R wrote:

Would you knowingly bet all your money on a horse with a broken leg to win ?

Voting for a Third Party candidate takes votes away from a similar candidate that is either the Democrat or the Republican . The SPOILER EFFECT is also called the Nader Effect or Perot Effect .

Would you knowingly vote against the Right to Keep and Bear Arms ?

Does the Brady Bunch want us to lose our 2A by using the SPOILER EFFECT against us ? Are we that dumb to let it happen again ?

OK , until we change the rules of our election systems ,let's not vote to help elect the more evil of the two that we know without any doubt is anti-gun into office . Protest votingfor a Third Party or not voting only helps the Brady Bunch .

Do you hate to lose by being played a fool ?

________________________________________________________

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect

Click to expand...

There is a small difference between Democrats and Republicans today, and the gap closes a little more with each passing election. They have given us more of the same every year since I can remember, no matter who is in office.

So, we get more of the same because we only vote for one of 2 major parties, then we get upset when nothing changes. When someone comes along from a 3rd party, they don't get the votes because some idiot "wants their vote to count".

Click to expand...

That's exactly it. What did Mr. Einstein say...

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

AWDstylez ...

It is insane to do the samething and get a anti-POTUSagain .

Are we victors or victims ?

Will your actions elect Obama again ?

AWDstylez ... You changed from John Pierce's ........

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/25761.html WHY ?

Citizen · May 18, 2009

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I'm just not willing to sic a Republicrat on my fellow human beings.

Razor's argument in the OP supposes that the 2A is the most important issue.

And it supposes that voting for a Republican will eliminate or strongly reduce 2A infringements. Without the winning Republican then eroding other rights, growing the federal government, etc., etc.

The Dem's and Rep's are just twowings of the same party--the Keep Ourselves in Power Party.

In my lifetime, the federal government has gone farther and farther off the Constitution. Has expanded by leaps and bounds. Has saddled us with unbelievable taxes, direct and indirect. Has been complicit with the Federal Reserve in devaluing my savings via inflation. Has...etc.

No. I will not vote to tie the noose tighter around my own neck. Neither am I willing to do that to all the kind, decent people I both know and don't know.I'll either vote 3rd Party or, if I can't have confidence in a thirdparty candidate,not at all.

AWDstylez · May 18, 2009

imported post

R a Z o R wrote:

AWDstylez wrote:

Hef wrote:

R a Z o R wrote:

Would you knowingly bet all your money on a horse with a broken leg to win ?

Voting for a Third Party candidate takes votes away from a similar candidate that is either the Democrat or the Republican . The SPOILER EFFECT is also called the Nader Effect or Perot Effect .

Would you knowingly vote against the Right to Keep and Bear Arms ?

Does the Brady Bunch want us to lose our 2A by using the SPOILER EFFECT against us ? Are we that dumb to let it happen again ?

OK , until we change the rules of our election systems ,let's not vote to help elect the more evil of the two that we know without any doubt is anti-gun into office . Protest votingfor a Third Party or not voting only helps the Brady Bunch .

Do you hate to lose by being played a fool ?

________________________________________________________

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect

Click to expand...

There is a small difference between Democrats and Republicans today, and the gap closes a little more with each passing election. They have given us more of the same every year since I can remember, no matter who is in office.

So, we get more of the same because we only vote for one of 2 major parties, then we get upset when nothing changes. When someone comes along from a 3rd party, they don't get the votes because some idiot "wants their vote to count".

Click to expand...

That's exactly it. What did Mr. Einstein say...

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Click to expand...

AWDstylez ...

It is insane to do the samething and get a anti-POTUSagain .

Are we victors or victims ?

Will your actions elect Obama again ?

But that's just it, MY actions have zilch, zero, nada impact on who gets elected. That's why people should vote for who they REALLY believe in, because your vote doesn't matter anyway.

The point is, as long you keep choosing what's fed to you you're always going to lose. It's not the lesser of two evils, because they're actually the same. You seem to be suggesting that in this rigged, lose/lose situation, if you just pick one lose over the other you'll somehow win. That just isn't how it works.

AWDstylez · May 18, 2009

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Citizen wrote:

I'll either vote 3rd Party or, if I can't have confidence in a thirdparty candidate,not at all.

If apathy was running as a candidate, it'd be winning an awful lot.It's the most glaring statement the American publiccontinually makes about the candidates they're always given. However, it gets brushed off as them being lazy and "unpatriotic." But if you actually go talk to people it's because it isn't worth their time and effort to go throw out a vote for dumb or dumber. Consistantly piss poor voter turnout is the American people saying the choices suck.

HOOK , LINE , & SPOILER EFFECT

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