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Thread: "Continuing Education" for LEO's

  1. #1
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    Okay, this is just something I was thinking about the other day.

    As a licensed Pharmacy Technician I have to "re-certify" every 2 years to keep my license. Which means I have to complete at least 20 hours of continuing education, and pass tests on what I learned, and at least 4 hours of those CE's have to be on LAW surrounding my practice.

    Nurses, Doctors, Pharmacists, Teachers, Respiratory Therapists...etc. ALL have to complete continuing education every couple/few years to keep their licenses. (all require up to date education on the changes in LAW surrounding each area of practice...ie: HIPPA etc.)

    As far as I am told, by my friends who are lawyers, and LEO's in Michigan, (both "green" and "seasoned") there is no such requirement for law enforcement... WHY?

    Why are those who are entrusted with enforcing/upholding the law not required to continue their education after graduating from the police academy or even lawyers after law school to keep their badges/degrees/whatever?

    The law changes all the time... and even so, shouldn't they have a brush up anyway even on older laws that are obviously overlooked like OC?

    I have a friend who JUST graduated from the Police Academy, and has only been in the field for a couple of years, never was taught about OC.... and really didn't know much about the allowances/limitations of CPL's....

    This is very frustrating to me.



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    To the best of my knowledge, most PD's do regular discussions before each shift goes out on patrol, in order to make sure everyone is aware of which criminals are on the loose, what laws just changed, which things to be aware of like open carriers doing a picnic, things like that.

    Not exactly a recertification thing, but having personallybeen in lines of work that require yearly recertification, I have a lot more faith in continuous updates.
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    understandable, this happens in many businesses... only we call them Staff meetings.

    I still think required class room time/ required training in regards to LAW would be appropriate. I mean, aren't they required to qualify with their weapons every so often? What is the harm in requiring them to have CE's?

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    I think that as a LEO that's not on desk duty, they should AT LEAST annually:

    1. 1. Complete 10 credits in criminal justice courses at an accredited institution.
      2. Complete a legal update course, which contains a refresher in existing laws, updates on changed laws, and updates on case law.
      3. Complete a physical examination in which they must complete a 100 meter dash, a 1.5 mile run, 100 pushups and 100 situps in a given time frame and order.
      4. Complete a weapons and tactics course
      5. Complete course that covers the use of force.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    I think that as a LEO that's not on desk duty, they should AT LEAST annually:

    1. 1. Complete 10 credits in criminal justice courses at an accredited institution.
      2. Complete a legal update course, which contains a refresher in existing laws, updates on changed laws, and updates on case law.
      3. Complete a physical examination in which they must complete a 100 meter dash, a 1.5 mile run, 100 pushups and 100 situps in a given time frame and order.
      4. Complete a weapons and tactics course
      5. Complete course that covers the use of force.
    I suspect that No. 3 only, would wipe-out about 70% of our LE across the U.S.

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    I think that as a LEO that's not on desk duty, they should AT LEAST annually:
    1. 1. Complete 10 credits in criminal justice courses at an accredited institution.
      2. Complete a legal update course, which contains a refresher in existing laws, updates on changed laws, and updates on case law.
      3. Complete a physical examination in which they must complete a 100 meter dash, a 1.5 mile run, 100 pushups and 100 situps in a given time frame and order.
      4. Complete a weapons and tactics course
      5. Complete course that covers the use of force.
    I suspect that No. 3 only, would wipe-out about 70% of our LE across the U.S.
    lol That would wipe out the overwhelming majority of Americans, period! That's more stringent than some armed services require.

    However, I can say that I agree with the CE requirements amongst all LEO's. And if an officer is on the beat, then I could see advantages to making physical requirements as well.

    I think the problem is that many police unions would never allow this. But that's another discussion altogether...

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    I think that as a LEO that's not on desk duty, they should AT LEAST annually:

    1. 1. Complete 10 credits in criminal justice courses at an accredited institution.
      2. Complete a legal update course, which contains a refresher in existing laws, updates on changed laws, and updates on case law.
      3. Complete a physical examination in which they must complete a 100 meter dash, a 1.5 mile run, 100 pushups and 100 situps in a given time frame and order.
      4. Complete a weapons and tactics course
      5. Complete course that covers the use of force.
    1. Having Completed college at Wayne State university, having 10 credits is useless, that wouldnt change a thing. Who is going to pay for this Anually? That would be you. I doubt that would pass.
    2. They teach the legal portion of the law at the academy and at college if they went. Any changes are taught as they are changed during "Muster" in the morning.
    3. Having gone through the School Craft Police Academy and the U.S Border Patrol Academy, having any type of stuff like this is useless. I presonally Run Marathons, One during the academy even. I can do Push Ups and Sit Ups all day long. The problem is this stuff is only required to be done ONCE at the acdemy. 90% of LEO's do not stay in shape. I know some departments have a incentive for staying in shape like three extra vacation days a year. This issomething that I agree with. It should be an annual requirment,as they are my backup.
    4 and 5 are taught at the academy, the use of force is drilled into our heads. Weapons and tactics are also taught. At the USBP we requalify with handgun,rifle,shotguns four times a year.
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    jeremy05 wrote:
    1. Having Completed college at Wayne State university, having 10 credits is useless, that wouldnt change a thing. Who is going to pay for this Anually? That would be you. I doubt that would pass.

    I am currently going to school to become a special education teacher. We are required to take "x" amount of credits after we graduate and throughout our career. So officers should not be exempt from something like this either.The officers should have to pay for it... us teachers do.

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    Many industries require CE. I agree wholeheartedly that law enforcement should not be exempt. Laws change... courts overrule existing decisions... officers need formalized training to ensure they are in compliance with the law if they are going to enforce said law upon people.

    Years ago, I remember seeing a case where an officer pulled over another officer (albeit off duty) because his trailer hitch was obscuring part of his license plate. The off duty officer got upset because he felt there was no lawful reason for the stop... he argued that the stop was discriminatory. It turned into a big legal battle. As it turns out, the alleged infraction (and thus the reason for the stop) was an old law that was no longer valid. Had there been a formalized CE course, the whole incident may have been avoided.

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    I thought that all teachers once hired had some many years to obtain their masters? I would assume that all the teachers know about this before they get their jobs.

    As education is the most important thing I think we can have, I agree that teachers should not have to pay for any further education they want/need to obtain. For one thing the more they learn the more they can teach. The more they teach the more the kids get educated, the more educated they get, the less likely they are to rob me!

    The thing about the Criminal Justice program is that you can wrap the entire thing up in one class. The Class Program is stuff like history of police, and useless classes like that. I personally feel that the info I get in my Email about policy change is plenty enough to keep me/others updated on changes.
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    jeremy05 wrote:
    I thought that all teachers once hired had some many years to obtain their masters?* I would assume that all the teachers know about this before they get their jobs.*

    As education is the most important thing I think we can have, I agree that teachers should not have to pay for any further education they want/need to obtain.* For one thing the more they learn the more they can teach.* The more they teach the more the kids get educated,* the more educated they get, the less likely they are to rob me!

    The thing about the Criminal Justice program is that you can wrap the entire thing up in one class.* The Class Program is stuff like history of police, and useless classes like that.* I personally feel that the info I get in my Email about policy change is plenty enough to keep me/others updated on changes.*
    Many jobs require CE (continuing Education).

    Educators, Doctors, Pharmacists, Electricians, you name it.

    Anything from legal updates, to code updates, to science updates. Why? Because things change over time, people forget things over time, etc.

    Law changes CONSTANTLY. We already know that MANY (if not most) officers are completely unaware of the legal background of Open Carry, and that's just one issue!

    And if your little update memos were enough, then why are we still getting people "detained" by being thrown against brick walls and tossed into the back of a squad car, for merely walking back to their car with a sidearm?

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    jeremy05 wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    I think that as a LEO that's not on desk duty, they should AT LEAST annually:

    1. 1. Complete 10 credits in criminal justice courses or other courses related to their position at an accredited institution.
      2. Complete a legal update course, which contains a refresher in existing laws, updates on changed laws, and updates on case law.
      3. Complete a physical examination in which they must complete a 100 meter dash, a 1.5 mile run, 100 pushups and 100 situps in a given time frame and order.
      4. Complete a weapons and tactics course
      5. Complete course that covers the use of force.
    1. Having Completed college at Wayne State university, having 10 credits is useless, that wouldnt change a thing.* Who is going to pay for this Anually?* That would be you.* I doubt that would pass.
    Not true. Most professions require that the individual pay for it. Doctors, Teachers, and Electricians are three fields I have first or secondhand knowledge of this (due to immediate family having to do this).

    And I feel that this would be FAR from useless. It would provide an opportunity for an officer to complete another degree, such as a law degree, a degree in psych, etc, which could eventually lead to a promotion, or a specialized position.

    2. They teach the legal portion of the law at the academy and at college if they went.* Any changes are taught as they are changed during "Muster" in the morning.*
    Clearly this isn't enough. See my last post.

    3. Having gone through the School Craft Police Academy and the U.S Border Patrol Academy, having any type of stuff like this is useless.* I presonally Run Marathons, One during the academy even.* I can do Push Ups and Sit Ups all day long.* The problem is this stuff is only required to be done ONCE at the acdemy.* 90% of LEO's do not stay in shape.* I know some departments have a incentive for staying in shape like three extra vacation days a year.* This is*something that I agree with.* It should be an annual requirment,*as they are my backup.* *
    Exactly why they need to have a physical aptitude test at least annually.

    4 and 5 are taught at the academy, the use of force is drilled into our heads.* Weapons and tactics are also taught.* At the USBP we requalify with handgun,rifle,shotguns four times a year.*
    I'm aware that you do requalifications with weapons at least annually (varies by department). But You don't revisit the use of force annually. That's something that should be done, especially as you gain access to other "less-than-lethal" devices.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    jeremy05 wrote:
    I thought that all teachers once hired had some many years to obtain their masters? I would assume that all the teachers know about this before they get their jobs.

    As education is the most important thing I think we can have, I agree that teachers should not have to pay for any further education they want/need to obtain. For one thing the more they learn the more they can teach. The more they teach the more the kids get educated, the more educated they get, the less likely they are to rob me!

    The thing about the Criminal Justice program is that you can wrap the entire thing up in one class. The Class Program is stuff like history of police, and useless classes like that. I personally feel that the info I get in my Email about policy change is plenty enough to keep me/others updated on changes.
    Many jobs require CE (continuing Education).

    Educators, Doctors, Pharmacists, Electricians, you name it.

    Anything from legal updates, to code updates, to science updates. Why? Because things change over time, people forget things over time, etc.

    Law changes CONSTANTLY. We already know that MANY (if not most) officers are completely unaware of the legal background of Open Carry, and that's just one issue!

    And if your little update memos were enough, then why are we still getting people "detained" by being thrown against brick walls and tossed into the back of a squad car, for merely walking back to their car with a sidearm?

    The problem here is people are focused on Open carry law. That hasn't really changed in a long time. Its just not taught AT ALL in the academy's. I didn't learn a thing about it, nor did anyone else i know that went through the academy.



    And Yes "Muster" meeting are more than enough to KEEP UP with the ever changing laws. This is a OPINION matter no point in getting in a ******* match

    The whole continuing education in law enforcement if a personal choice. I thought the original post was for a Mandatory education thing. Why stop at a B.S or a Masters, make them all get their Doctorates. Who's to say whats enough. They why the ones with highereducation gets the promotion.



    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    jeremy05 wrote:


    The problem here is people are focused on Open carry law. That hasn't really changed in a long time. Its just not taught AT ALL in the academy's. I didn't learn a thing about it, nor did anyone else i know that went through the academy.

    The Michigan State Police academy has a section on Open carry.

    And Yes "Muster" meeting are more than enough to KEEP UP with the ever changing laws. This is a OPINION matter no point in getting in a ******* match

    The whole continuing education in law enforcement if a personal choice. I thought the original post was for a Mandatory education thing. Why stop at a B.S or a Masters, make them all get their Doctorates. Who's to say whats enough. They why the ones with highereducation gets the promotion.
    A degree doesn't have anything to do with it. Many times what you learned as a freshman is outdated by the timeyou graduate. And we are not talking about the basics which is what you learn in school, but keeping up with changing laws and ordinances as well as technology. And this just isn't LEOs, but prosecutors as well.

    For instance an arrest was made in TC for unlawful transport of a handgun because the LEO's AND the prosecutor were not aware of the changes in the law in 2006. The judge dismissed the charges.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

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    Edited to cut the fat outa the post.
    Well its good to hear the State Police at least know about Open carry law. College was almost completly useless when it comes to police work. If you want to be a police officer I would recommend going to college for something that has more to deal with social work. IMO Police are basicly social workers.
    Ever heard the quote "5% of people take up 90% of police time" Just a interesting tid bit I heard once, unsure of how true it is. Sounds about right to me.
    Anyways back on topic, IMO its easier to just check with police on why they are asking to talk to you. Once you find out the officer may be going in the direction of Violating your rights, then I would ignore him.
    All Im saying is find out why hes stopping you before you play the silent card. It may be a justifiable reason. Cut them a break, their job sucks, look at the type of people they have to deal with and the little bit of respect they still get. Its sad.
    ..... Whooops got cross threaded on another post! Was something about not talking to cops who stop you.
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    jeremy05 wrote:
    I thought that all teachers once hired had some many years to obtain their masters? I would assume that all the teachers know about this before they get their jobs.

    As education is the most important thing I think we can have, I agree that teachers should not have to pay for any further education they want/need to obtain. For one thing the more they learn the more they can teach. The more they teach the more the kids get educated, the more educated they get, the less likely they are to rob me!

    The thing about the Criminal Justice program is that you can wrap the entire thing up in one class. The Class Program is stuff like history of police, and useless classes like that. I personally feel that the info I get in my Email about policy change is plenty enough to keep me/others updated on changes.
    Just to give you an idea:
    As a holder of a teaching certificate, I am required to do: 6 credits at a college or University, 36 hours yearly of Professional Development, 36 hours yearly of Adequate Yearly Progress hours, and 36 hours of in-service trainings. I pay for the college classes, the others I can either choose to take the hours here and there for a small fee (usually) or, choose to take more college classes to cover some of these hours at my expense.

    Just a note that I have a Bachelor's Degree, Certification on top of the Bachelor's Degree (136hrs-Bachelor's and 36 for Cert.), 2 Master's Degrees (one at 36 hours, one at 34 hours) and a Doctorate (125 hours plus dissertation) and I still am required to take these hours. The college classes we take, though, must be part of a "program" so they can, but don't have to be, the classes used for any advanced degrees. And yes, advanced degrees do usually give you a boost on the pay scale, but much less than you would think. My doctorate only got me an extra $400 a year over what I made with the Master's, but I'm not complaining.

    I also have Social Work Licensure which requires 40 hours every few years, but the 45 hours (over 3 years) need to be from training approved by the board ($$$$--around $100 per contact hour)
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    T Vance wrote:
    jeremy05 wrote:
    1. Having Completed college at Wayne State university, having 10 credits is useless, that wouldnt change a thing. Who is going to pay for this Anually? That would be you. I doubt that would pass.

    I am currently going to school to become a special education teacher. We are required to take "x" amount of credits after we graduate and throughout our career. So officers should not be exempt from something like this either.The officers should have to pay for it... us teachers do.
    yep.. it costs me $50 every two years to re-certify and complete my 20 hours of CE's as a CPhT... I pay for that, never has my employer, and certainly not any taxpayer. We all choose our careers...including LEO's. I don't care what their unions think, or what they teach in the police academy... I think CE's are a good idea, and should be required, and something the officer's must pay for themselves.

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