Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 32

Thread: Almost Drew my Weapon

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    584

    Post imported post

    My friends and I were just outside tossing water balloons down a hill by our apartment. I was OCing because I figure hey you never know when you need it so anyway we had just run out of balloons and were walking down to our apartment and right as we reached our apartment two cars pull up and these two thugs got out (one was holding a beer).

    They start asking if we were the ones throwing balloons and my friend said yeah, then one guy said we had hit his car so we apologized, told him we didn't mean to hit anyone's car. Then he came up grabbed my friend by the shirt and they started saying they were going to kick our @&$#* and curb stomp us and all kind of threats (never said kill). The one who was in my other friends face saw my 1911 in its serpa and told his buddy (the guy who was still grabbing my friend) who could clearly see because he was on the right started saying "what you gonna shoot me &*%#@" and "are you a cop" I told him "I don't have to tell you that" then I said "let go of my friend" then he said again "what you gonna shoot me, I've been shot before" at that point since he was still not complying I placed my hand on my weapon ready to draw and fire then asked again "let go of my friend" at this point I think they realized I was serious and the guy finally complied and he and his buddy started backing away saying if I didn't have agun they would have beat the %^#$ out of us then the guy who had been grabbing my friend said "lets compare, see who has more ammo" to me implying he had a gun in his car. Once they were out of sight I hurried my friends and myself into the apartment locked the door and called the police (I figure if its good enough to place my hand on my weapon it's good enough to call).

    I'm not going to press charges as I don't need to deal with more trouble with their friends since I'm pretty sure they know where we live. Lesson learned don't throw water balloons.

    Some of you might say we started it but that doesn't excuse their actions (even the responding officer agreed).

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    29

    Post imported post

    Waterballoons aside, it sounds like you handled the confrontation itself very well.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hoquiam, , USA
    Posts
    172

    Post imported post

    Big deal. you hit a car with water. Its just guys who are drinking and out of control and you got them back inline and no one got hurt good job and glad it went that way.There are a lot of them out there. No matter what you do your going to piss off someone.

  4. #4
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    okkid wrote:
    Big deal. you hit a car with water. Its just guys who are drinking and out of control and you got them back inline and no one got hurt good job and glad it went that way.There are a lot of them out there. No matter what you do your going to piss off someone.
    +1, people are crazy these days. Some years back I simply walked by some guy's car in the apartment complex I lived in and the guy started going nuts, saying he was going to kill me for touching his precious car. You can never tell with these morons just how far they are going to go, and anything can set them off. FT, think you handled it as well as you could have. You would have been justified IMO in drawing on them once they threatened deadly force against you and your friend, especially since they had already grabbed your friend and initiated the aggression. Good thing you didn't have to though.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    58

    Post imported post

    Wow, I'm glad to hear everything turned out alright. Who responded, Pullman PD or WSU PD? Did the officer say anything regarding your OC? Can I ask whereabouts this took place? I've had some very positive encounters with both PPD and WSUPD recently regarding CC and OC, I'm not too surprised that the officer handled this well.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    584

    Post imported post

    compmanio365 wrote:
    snip" You would have been justified IMO in drawing on them once they threatened deadly force against you and your friend, especially since they had already grabbed your friend and initiated the aggression. Good thing you didn't have to though.
    I would have been justified in drawing yes, even the responding officer told me that. However the only problem is that for me I don't draw to intimidate or command I draw to shoot so If I had pulled on them I would have to shoot its just how I've trained.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    584

    Post imported post

    kenny31 wrote:
    Wow, I'm glad to hear everything turned out alright. Who responded, Pullman PD or WSU PD? Did the officer say anything regarding your OC? Can I ask whereabouts this took place? I've had some very positive encounters with both PPD and WSUPD recently regarding CC and OC, I'm not too surprised that the officer handled this well.
    It was a PPD officer he was pretty cool about the whole thing reminded me more of old time country sheriff. After I made the report I made the comment "thank god I open carry" and he made a face and I ended up asking his opinion (he didn't just shove down my throat) he just ended up saying the usually CC stuff element of surprise and what not I was hoping I could change his mind but even with facts on my side it's a hard ticket so we ended up agreeing to disagree. He didn't think open carry was wrong or anything he just thought concealed carry had better advantages to it.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    390

    Post imported post

    Wow, that is crazy. Just goes to show our little town is not without its dangers.

    I always point out stuff like this when people talk about how safe small towns are. The May '07 shooting in Moscow is a good example.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wa, ,
    Posts
    2,769

    Post imported post


  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lewiston, ID - Charlotte,NC, ,
    Posts
    79

    Post imported post

    That is scary but I am not surprised I have had more than one encounter with idiots over in Pullman luckily I have never had to draw. You handled yourself very well and I am glad that the officer saw it the same way you did.

    I never totally agree with the small towns are safer line. Do they usually have less crime; well yes but anything can still happen in any town or city. I was in Moscow during the shooting in 2007 and it was some scary ****. One thing that none of the papers covered in that was that a recently returned Iraq vet who was driving near the shooting and thought he was taking fire so he pulled over and took a defensive position after taking his AR out of his trunk. Well a few Moscow Officers saw him and he ended up getting arrested. He was let go without any charges later but if you could hear all the shooting going on and the person you see isn't the one shooting why arrest him. Who knows if he could have had a clear shot and taken him out or if those officers got to the actual scene faster and helped their other downed officers. Oh well hopefully they learned.

    Also I had two friends who had to draw last year in Moscow on a guy who started to get violent at a stoplight after the guy claimed they cut him off. He actually reached inside my friends truck and hit him and when he reached in his pockets my friend drew on him. He still came in to hit him again until my friend put the muzzle in his face and looking down the barrel of a 1911 will persuade most people.

    Again good job.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    584

    Post imported post

    This whole situation really reaffirmed my belief for carrying where ever I go even if its just the short walk outside to the mail box.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Skagit Valley, Washington
    Posts
    451

    Post imported post

    So, lessee, if you had been CCing, he would have come at you and grabbed you by the shirt or neck. Then you would be forced to draw and fire.

    Yeah, now I see the LEO's point- NOT

    Glad you're OK. Hope they are as scared of a follow-up as most are.
    Too bad the LEO didn't get the point. A concealed weapon would not have had the fight-stopping effect the OC weapon did.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    58

    Post imported post

    Can you find the police report here? I'd be interested as to what they record it as. I couldn't find it...

    http://www.pullman-wa.gov/policelog/Default.aspx

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    584

    Post imported post

    kenny31 wrote:
    Can you find the police report here? I'd be interested as to what they record it as. I couldn't find it...

    http://www.pullman-wa.gov/policelog/Default.aspx
    Incident Address :
    PULLMAN WA 99163
    Responding Officers: Ryan McNannay, Doug A Anderson
    Disposition : ACT

    Unit: 462 Time Reported: 20:30 Time Dispatched: 20:40
    Time Arrived : Time Completed : 20:52

    Unit: 466 Time Reported: 20:30 Time Dispatched: 20:33
    Time Arrived : 20:44 Time Completed : 21:13

    Cad Comments:
    Report of a threatening subject. Officer responded and contacted subject.

    -It was under threatening I left out my name and address although I guess you guys can find it now.


  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Yakima County, ,
    Posts
    506

    Post imported post

    I think you should have definitely drawn.
    1) You had a full legal right to pull, as you were directly threatened with felonious violence;
    2) Studies by the FBI and various other folks have shown that the average person can close 21feet in 2 seconds. (I recommend practicing disarming someone drawing an airsoft gun to test this.) If he had a knife, it would have been a "fair fight" at close range, and that guy seemed to have the drop on your friend... Maybe it's just me and my paranoia, but if someone is up close, is threatening you and seem serious, better safe than sorry.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    584

    Post imported post

    cynicist wrote:
    I think you should have definitely drawn.
    1) You had a full legal right to pull, as you were directly threatened with felonious violence;
    2) Studies by the FBI and various other folks have shown that the average person can close 21feet in 2 seconds. (I recommend practicing disarming someone drawing an airsoft gun to test this.) If he had a knife, it would have been a "fair fight" at close range, and that guy seemed to have the drop on your friend... Maybe it's just me and my paranoia, but if someone is up close, is threatening you and seem serious, better safe than sorry.
    Well the thing is I only draw to fire (when OC) and the advantage was the two were on my friends not me now had the guy grabbed me instead of my friend he probably wouldn't be going home that night, however the presence of the gun made them pause their actions I was at the ready if a weapon was drawn but fortunately was able to get them to rethink there actions.

    When a situation like this happens and adrenaline is pumping I don't get nervous or shaky Instead I'm extremely calm. If that moment came I knew exactly what I was going to do and how I was going to do it. All the training I put myself through really paid off at this moment. I don't regret any action I took.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Yakima County, ,
    Posts
    506

    Post imported post

    I've always been skeptical about the "only draw to fire" line, mainly for practical reasons. When you need to react, there is a second or so that your brain takes to process that information and actually react to. That's why it's not that hard to snatch a gun at close range. I've always said "only draw when willing to fire." Pulling a gun on someone who is acting menacing or perhaps beginning to physically attack another can have a rather calming affect on that person, and they may begin to reconsider their attitude without needing to shoot them. As someone who has had a gun (well, several at the same time) drawn on me, I can say that actually seeing down the barrel kinda sends you into "do what they say mode, whereas I've seen plenty of weapons in belts, holsters, etc. that don't seem to have that same affect on me. But I'm not a common criminal, so maybe I just reacted different.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    584

    Post imported post

    Now after rethinking everything I would definitely be willing to draw down on these people. The only thing is that when I run scenarios the possibility they question my willingness to fire and continue to approach is a real problem because I don't know if shooting them at that point is legally justified (although I'm sure it is).

    Edited for clarity

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    55

    Post imported post

    I will offer a different opinion. If this group is really dedicated to ensuring that OC continues and that the public is aware of OC laws and accepts them then we should all be appalled at the original poster's first paragraph.

    The OP says he was throwing water ballons (apparently at cars) and decided to open carry while he was doing this. Throwing water balloons at cars or people without their consent is at least criminal disorderly conduct. Carrying a gun while committing this crime is at best stupid and at worst raises this to carrying a firearm while committing a crime.

    The Washington Jury Instruction on Unlawful Display of a Weapon says:

    "A person commits the crime of unlawfully displaying a weapon when he or she carries, exhibits, displays or draws a firearm in a manner, under the circumstances, and at the time and place that manifests an intend to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."

    I think a prosecutor might make a run at convincing a jury that a person throwing objects at cars while carrying a firearm is committing this crime.

    Even if no crime was committed, someone who seeks to advocate for greater respect for OC rights should be on his best behavior when carrying. The incidents described at the beginning of this thread are those of a hoodlum and whether he acted with good discretion after the criminal conduct is irrelevent.

  20. #20
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    Well, that's not the way I read it, it seems they had no intention of hitting a vehicle with the water balloons but were throwing them where they thought there was no vehicles or people. It is in dispute whether they actually hit the car in question or not. And even if they were intentionally throwing water balloons at people's cars, does that then excuse the assault which took place by those in the car?

    Was it smart? Maybe not. Was it malicious? No. The actions of those in the car that stopped most certainly were, however.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    South Whidbey, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,812

    Post imported post

    SpokaneIrish wrote:
    I will offer a different opinion. If this group is really dedicated to ensuring that OC continues and that the public is aware of OC laws and accepts them then we should all be appalled at the original poster's first paragraph.

    The OP says he was throwing water ballons (apparently at cars) and decided to open carry while he was doing this. Throwing water balloons at cars or people without their consent is at least criminal disorderly conduct. Carrying a gun while committing this crime is at best stupid and at worst raises this to carrying a firearm while committing a crime.

    The Washington Jury Instruction on Unlawful Display of a Weapon says:

    "A person commits the crime of unlawfully displaying a weapon when he or she carries, exhibits, displays or draws a firearm in a manner, under the circumstances, and at the time and place that manifests an intend to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."

    I think a prosecutor might make a run at convincing a jury that a person throwing objects at cars while carrying a firearm is committing this crime.

    Even if no crime was committed, someone who seeks to advocate for greater respect for OC rights should be on his best behavior when carrying. The incidents described at the beginning of this thread are those of a hoodlum and whether he acted with good discretion after the criminal conduct is irrelevent.
    OP: "My friends and I were just outside tossing water balloons down a hill by our apartment."

    Sounds to me like they were just out having a little harmless fun, and did NOT realize where the balloons were ending up. When the thugs showed up, the OP said he & his buds tried to apologize. That tells me he wasn't out to cause trouble, he does something slightly foolish & tried to rectify it. Had the thugs been ordinary sensible people instead of guttertrash, that would have been the end of it. For all we know "hitting their cars with water" amounts to two droplets from the splash.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    55

    Post imported post

    compmanio365 wrote:
    they had no intention of hitting a vehicle with the water balloons but were throwing them where they thought there was no vehicles or people.
    You really think so?? That is possible, I suppose, but who ever heard of throwing water balloons at nothing?

    Throwing water balloons at cars is juvenile. Acting like a juvenile when openly carrying a gun only hurts the effort for which this forum was created.

    Imagine if this had gone the other way and he had drawn and shot someone. If we read that someone carried while goofing around like this and then shot someone who stopped and protested, we would think "how stupid". Granted there would be some he said-she said about who was violent first, but nevertheless we would have someone dead over water balloons. Lets grow up a little here.

  23. #23
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    No, we would have someone dead over an unprovoked attack by a car full of gang members. The water balloons had very little to do with it. Unless you are saying that hitting a car with a water balloon (unintentionally, plus an apology from those responsible)gives the occupants the right to commit assault on those throwing the water balloons. Is that what you are saying? Cause I believe common sense and the law disagrees with you.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    55

    Post imported post

    Granted the boys who stopped and tried to start a fight were wrong, but the boys who strapped on a gun and went out looking for trouble or at least went out acting foolishly are going to get a whole lot less sympathy when that trouble arrives than would if they were minding their own business.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallon, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    5,580

    Post imported post

    SpokaneIrish wrote:
    Granted the boys who stopped and tried to start a fight were wrong, but the boys who strapped on a gun and went out looking for trouble or at least went out acting foolishly are going to get a whole lot less sympathy when that trouble arrives than would if they were minding their own business.
    If some boys choose to do such, they would likely be in trouble. There is nothing to indicate that this is the case in this thread. Your continual mention of intent that is not in the OP is not logical.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •