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Thread: As it should be. Steny Hoyer says Democrats beaten on guns

  1. #1
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    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22703.html

    Yup.

    This is how it should be.

    The very best part of this is.... this is the way it is!

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    Yes Indeedy!:celebrate

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    House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer all but conceded Tuesday that Democrats have been beaten on the gun issue for now.
    Better to be beaten, than shot.

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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    Do not for a second think this means they'll stop trying to take our rights away... they'll just change the names and call their new legislation the "Clean River and Water Table Act of 2010" and in it will have a 500% tax on ammo to "provide for cleaning up the lead and other toxins left in the ground by bullets". They'll likely hide it far more craftily and call it something like the "Child Safety and Equality Act" with a clause on page 563 stating "No firearm may be present in a home or business if there is any child in the home receiving or have ever received State funded medical treatment, or if the child breathes".

    These people are crafty and they create legislation that isn't what the title says it is... like the "Employee Free Choice Act".
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    Do not for a second think this means they'll stop trying to take our rights away... they'll just change the names and call their new legislation the "Clean River and Water Table Act of 2010" and in it will have a 500% tax on ammo to "provide for cleaning up the lead and other toxins left in the ground by bullets". They'll likely hide it far more craftily and call it something like the "Child Safety and Equality Act" with a clause on page 563 stating "No firearm may be present in a home or business if there is any child in the home receiving or have ever received State funded medical treatment, or if the child breathes".

    These people are crafty and they create legislation that isn't what the title says it is... like the "Employee Free Choice Act".
    I never said the fight was over.

    I never said they would never stop trying.

    I never said we should cease our efforts due to their withdrawal at the moment.

    I am merely enjoying the current victories and am pointing out that when we make a stand, stuff happens.

    Extreme taxes on ammunition is nothing new. If my memory serves correct there are several states with high taxes on ammo....

    The strange thing is, no one has taken this stuff to court.

    Congress is indeed given the power to tax, and there is no limit on what taxes Congress may impose.

    However, one cannot have conflicting laws.

    The Supreme Court ruled that it is an individual right to keep and bear arms. Thereby also forbidding the Federal government from banning common classes of firearms.

    This means that law abiding individuals have the right to own a firearm and Federal law may not in any way forbid or inhibit the right of any lawful citizen to own a weapon (carrying is another story).

    Therein, specific and targeted taxes that raise the price of firearms or ammunition so high that the average citizen no longer has access to them due to prohibitive costs should also be forbidden.

    Any tax that is sufficiently excessive as to inhibit a right clearly spelled out in the constitution would be unconstitutional on it's face.

    Congress is not given the power to tax to remove or restrict the rights of others.

    I'm sure this has yet to be tested in court.



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    When they give ground, push even harder.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Elkad wrote:
    When they give ground, push even harder.
    Some Chinese guy once said this :

    “The enemy advances, we retreat; the enemy camps, we harass; the enemy tires, we attack; the enemy retreats, we pursue”
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    It has been suggested by at least one legal "expert" that the "Montana " model for INTRA-State firearm exemption from federal inter-state commerce meddling probably won't convince the SCOTUS . I disagree - without the inter-state commerce "key" , the Second Amendment BARS federal trespass.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Deanimator wrote:
    Elkad wrote:
    When they give ground, push even harder.
    Some Chinese guy once said this :

    “The enemy advances, we retreat; the enemy camps, we harass; the enemy tires, we attack; the enemy retreats, we pursue”
    Sun Tzu: "The Art of War"

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    Do not for a second think this means they'll stop trying to take our rights away... they'll just change the names and call their new legislation the "Clean River and Water Table Act of 2010" and in it will have a 500% tax on ammo to "provide for cleaning up the lead and other toxins left in the ground by bullets". They'll likely hide it far more craftily and call it something like the "Child Safety and Equality Act" with a clause on page 563 stating "No firearm may be present in a home or business if there is any child in the home receiving or have ever received State funded medical treatment, or if the child breathes".

    These people are crafty and they create legislation that isn't what the title says it is... like the "Employee Free Choice Act".
    Ha! I have a blog I'm working on that states the EXACT same thing! Rename the "Assault Weapons Ban" to "We Love Bunnies, Why Don't You?"
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    Elkad wrote:
    When they give ground, push even harder.
    Some Chinese guy once said this :

    “The enemy advances, we retreat; the enemy camps, we harass; the enemy tires, we attack; the enemy retreats, we pursue”
    Sun Tzu: "The Art of War"
    I was thinking more in terms of a fat, syphilitic Chinese guy who starved millions of people to death in the '50s, but he probably got it from Sun Tzu.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Mao Tse Tung... or 'Ze Dong' as is the recent translation.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Interesting side note... Dick Morris thinks that Steny Hoyer is not far from becoming the next Speaker of the House.

    Maybe he sees the writing on the wall, and is courting the moderate Democrats to support him in such a move.

    I think this link goes to Dick Morris' video on the subject, but I can't tell for sure, they block YT at work:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_njABSSZ1I

    TFred


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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Mao Tse Tung... or 'Ze Dong' as is the recent translation.
    Totally off topic......

    And Tsing Tao beer is actually Qing Dao.

    I've been there andthe beer is tastier, they only send us the rotten stuff...

    Qing Dao Hu is even better..

    I'm thirsty
    R[ƎVO˩]UTION

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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    Brass Magnet wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Mao Tse Tung... or 'Ze Dong' as is the recent translation.
    Totally off topic......

    And Tsing Tao beer is actually Qing Dao.

    I've been there andthe beer is tastier, they only send us the rotten stuff...

    Qing Dao Hu is even better..

    I'm thirsty
    Drinking in China, Hong Kong and Taiwan is awesome since it is so friggin cheap... and the scenery is so nice... you don't need beer goggles to see hot chicks everywhere.



    I miss those days I suppose... ah yes, the good ol clubbin days staying out until 6am. This pic was probably taken at 2 or 3am.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    I'm neither Democrat nor Republican. In fact I refuse to vote for either party for the foreseeable future as they are both basically the same.

    I'm also not a right-wing liberal or a left-wing conservative. I'm actually slightly right of center

    What I am is a gun owner who believes EVERY right is sacred. I believe the Constitution is important enough that it deserves to be capitalized EVERY time you spell it out. I believe it doesn't Give us our rights; it protects them.

    I also believe in the old definitions of liberal and conservative. A Liberal is someone who wants Big Brother regulating every aspect of our lives (Big Government). A Conservative is someone who wants as little to do with government as possible (Small Government).

    IMHO the only conservative political parties left are the little ones. The Republicans forfeited the right to claim that when they created the DHS, which sounds an awful lot like Obama's national police force to me.

    All of that being said, there are gun owners and 2A supporters on both sides of the aisle. Wasn't it 65 (?) Democrats who signed a letter to President Obama telling him they refused to vote for a renewed AWB? And didn't John McCain promise to close the "gun show loophole"? In the end, I don't buy this whole Democrat v Republican thing, even if they do.

    The liberal v conservative argument, when discussing 2A rights, has also become a moot point. It seems most people no longer know the definitions.


    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    Bookman wrote:
    I also believe in the old definitions of liberal and conservative. A Liberal is someone who wants Big Brother regulating every aspect of our lives (Big Government). A Conservative is someone who wants as little to do with government as possible (Small Government).
    Those are actually the new definitions. Liberal used to mean "For Liberty" And Conservative meant "Against Change". So in a sense, I guess the original founders were Liberal Conservatives in the sense they wanted to preserve Liberty and make it nearly impossible to change.

    Bookman wrote:
    IMHO the only conservative political parties left are the little ones. The Republicans forfeited the right to claim that when they created the DHS, which sounds an awful lot like Obama's national police force to me.
    While the DHS is a really out of control huge bureaucratic monstrosity... it is an amalgam of around 70 smaller agencies all bundled into one... so it was not really created, but rather reorganized and consolidated.

    Obama telling him they refused to vote for a renewed AWB? And didn't John McCain promise to close the "gun show loophole"? In the end, I don't buy this whole Democrat v Republican thing, even if they do.

    The liberal v conservative argument, when discussing 2A rights, has also become a moot point. It seems most people no longer know the definitions.
    [/quote]
    The fact that people have lost the meanings and now just vote for a (D) or an (R) just shows the importance of re-taking the Republican Party and getting more Constitutionalists elected. The more we have, the better the whole country will be for it.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Bookman wrote:
    I'm neither Democrat nor Republican. In fact I refuse to vote for either party for the foreseeable future as they are both basically the same.

    I'm also not a right-wing liberal or a left-wing conservative. I'm actually slightly right of center

    What I am is a gun owner who believes EVERY right is sacred. I believe the Constitution is important enough that it deserves to be capitalized EVERY time you spell it out. I believe it doesn't Give us our rights; it protects them.

    I also believe in the old definitions of liberal and conservative. A Liberal is someone who wants Big Brother regulating every aspect of our lives (Big Government). A Conservative is someone who wants as little to do with government as possible (Small Government).

    IMHO the only conservative political parties left are the little ones. The Republicans forfeited the right to claim that when they created the DHS, which sounds an awful lot like Obama's national police force to me.

    All of that being said, there are gun owners and 2A supporters on both sides of the aisle. Wasn't it 65 (?) Democrats who signed a letter to President Obama telling him they refused to vote for a renewed AWB? And didn't John McCain promise to close the "gun show loophole"? In the end, I don't buy this whole Democrat v Republican thing, even if they do.

    The liberal v conservative argument, when discussing 2A rights, has also become a moot point. It seems most people no longer know the definitions.

    The divide and conquer scheme is growing thin... People don't know the definitions anymore, because the politicians are starting to show us that the lines are very blurry, as in, invented.... They're all the same and the division of /conservative/liberal has been nothing but a divisive scam.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    I dont trust it. I think admitting defeat is simply a strategy to get us to back down. NEVER BACK DOWN!

  20. #20
    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    ixtow wrote:
    Bookman wrote:
    I'm neither Democrat nor Republican. In fact I refuse to vote for either party for the foreseeable future as they are both basically the same.

    I'm also not a right-wing liberal or a left-wing conservative. I'm actually slightly right of center

    What I am is a gun owner who believes EVERY right is sacred. I believe the Constitution is important enough that it deserves to be capitalized EVERY time you spell it out. I believe it doesn't Give us our rights; it protects them.

    I also believe in the old definitions of liberal and conservative. A Liberal is someone who wants Big Brother regulating every aspect of our lives (Big Government). A Conservative is someone who wants as little to do with government as possible (Small Government).

    IMHO the only conservative political parties left are the little ones. The Republicans forfeited the right to claim that when they created the DHS, which sounds an awful lot like Obama's national police force to me.

    All of that being said, there are gun owners and 2A supporters on both sides of the aisle. Wasn't it 65 (?) Democrats who signed a letter to President Obama telling him they refused to vote for a renewed AWB? And didn't John McCain promise to close the "gun show loophole"? In the end, I don't buy this whole Democrat v Republican thing, even if they do.

    The liberal v conservative argument, when discussing 2A rights, has also become a moot point. It seems most people no longer know the definitions.

    The divide and conquer scheme is growing thin... People don't know the definitions anymore, because the politicians are starting to show us that the lines are very blurry, as in, invented.... They're all the same and the division of /conservative/liberal has been nothing but a divisive scam.
    I buy into this a little but not much. I know that there are many who run on the Republican ticket because it is their only chance to win. People who are not party line, are for our rights and are for standing up for the Constitution. I agree that both parties need purging. But I think that painting both parties this way with such a broad brush is not completely accurate. The trick is doing your research on the Democrats and/or Republicans, demanding less rhetoric and more results, and picking the one that best fits what we need. The problem is that the bad politicians have gotten us addicted to mud slinging instead of real debate, strong backgrounds and results. I have a feeling that if we had 3 or 4 parties nothing much would change. At first maybe, but it would eventually become more of the same.

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    richarcm wrote:
    I dont trust it. I think admitting defeat is simply a strategy to get us to back down. NEVER BACK DOWN!
    Damn skippy.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    Brass Magnet wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Mao Tse Tung... or 'Ze Dong' as is the recent translation.
    Totally off topic......

    And Tsing Tao beer is actually Qing Dao.

    I've been there andthe beer is tastier, they only send us the rotten stuff...

    Qing Dao Hu is even better..

    I'm thirsty
    Nice pic, Wash. Which one is you?

    Drinking in China, Hong Kong and Taiwan is awesome since it is so friggin cheap... and the scenery is so nice... you don't need beer goggles to see hot chicks everywhere.



    I miss those days I suppose... ah yes, the good ol clubbin days staying out until 6am. This pic was probably taken at 2 or 3am.

  23. #23
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    richarcm wrote:
    I dont trust it. I think admitting defeat is simply a strategy to get us to back down. NEVER BACK DOWN!

    I agree.


    When the Dems say that "the political climate isn't right for an Assault Weapons Ban at this time"what they mean is if they can just bide their time for now regarding guns they'll eventually catch us napping down the road.





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