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As it should be. Steny Hoyer says Democrats beaten on guns

Washintonian_For_Liberty

Washintonian_For_Liberty

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Do not for a second think this means they'll stop trying to take our rights away... they'll just change the names and call their new legislation the "Clean River and Water Table Act of 2010" and in it will have a 500% tax on ammo to "provide for cleaning up the lead and other toxins left in the ground by bullets". They'll likely hide it far more craftily and call it something like the "Child Safety and Equality Act" with a clause on page 563 stating "No firearm may be present in a home or business if there is any child in the home receiving or have ever received State funded medical treatment, or if the child breathes".

These people are crafty and they create legislation that isn't what the title says it is... like the "Employee Free Choice Act".
 
D

Dispatcher

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
Do not for a second think this means they'll stop trying to take our rights away... they'll just change the names and call their new legislation the "Clean River and Water Table Act of 2010" and in it will have a 500% tax on ammo to "provide for cleaning up the lead and other toxins left in the ground by bullets". They'll likely hide it far more craftily and call it something like the "Child Safety and Equality Act" with a clause on page 563 stating "No firearm may be present in a home or business if there is any child in the home receiving or have ever received State funded medical treatment, or if the child breathes".

These people are crafty and they create legislation that isn't what the title says it is... like the "Employee Free Choice Act".
Click to expand...
I never said the fight was over.

I never said they would never stop trying.

I never said we should cease our efforts due to their withdrawal at the moment.

I am merely enjoying the current victories and am pointing out that when we make a stand, stuff happens.

Extreme taxes on ammunition is nothing new. If my memory serves correct there are several states with high taxes on ammo....

The strange thing is, no one has taken this stuff to court.

Congress is indeed given the power to tax, and there is no limit on what taxes Congress may impose.

However, one cannot have conflicting laws.

The Supreme Court ruled that it is an individual right to keep and bear arms. Thereby also forbidding the Federal government from banning common classes of firearms.

This means that law abiding individuals have the right to own a firearm and Federal law may not in any way forbid or inhibit the right of any lawful citizen to own a weapon (carrying is another story).

Therein, specific and targeted taxes that raise the price of firearms or ammunition so high that the average citizen no longer has access to them due to prohibitive costs should also be forbidden.

Any tax that is sufficiently excessive as to inhibit a right clearly spelled out in the constitution would be unconstitutional on it's face.

Congress is not given the power to tax to remove or restrict the rights of others.

I'm sure this has yet to be tested in court.
 
Deanimator

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Elkad wrote:
When they give ground, push even harder.
Click to expand...
Some Chinese guy once said this :D :

“The enemy advances, we retreat; the enemy camps, we harass; the enemy tires, we attack; the enemy retreats, we pursue”
 
S

SANDCREEK

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It has been suggested by at least one legal "expert" that the "Montana " model for INTRA-State firearm exemption from federal inter-state commerce meddling probably won't convince the SCOTUS . I disagree - without the inter-state commerce "key" , the Second Amendment BARS federal trespass.
 
Sonora Rebel

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Deanimator wrote:
Elkad wrote:
When they give ground, push even harder.
Click to expand...
Some Chinese guy once said this :D :

“The enemy advances, we retreat; the enemy camps, we harass; the enemy tires, we attack; the enemy retreats, we pursue”
Click to expand...
Sun Tzu: "The Art of War"
 
ixtow

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
Do not for a second think this means they'll stop trying to take our rights away... they'll just change the names and call their new legislation the "Clean River and Water Table Act of 2010" and in it will have a 500% tax on ammo to "provide for cleaning up the lead and other toxins left in the ground by bullets". They'll likely hide it far more craftily and call it something like the "Child Safety and Equality Act" with a clause on page 563 stating "No firearm may be present in a home or business if there is any child in the home receiving or have ever received State funded medical treatment, or if the child breathes".

These people are crafty and they create legislation that isn't what the title says it is... like the "Employee Free Choice Act".
Click to expand...
Ha! I have a blog I'm working on that states the EXACT same thing! Rename the "Assault Weapons Ban" to "We Love Bunnies, Why Don't You?"
 
Deanimator

Deanimator

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
Elkad wrote:
When they give ground, push even harder.
Click to expand...
Some Chinese guy once said this :D :

“The enemy advances, we retreat; the enemy camps, we harass; the enemy tires, we attack; the enemy retreats, we pursue”
Click to expand...
Sun Tzu: "The Art of War"
Click to expand...
I was thinking more in terms of a fat, syphilitic Chinese guy who starved millions of people to death in the '50s, but he probably got it from Sun Tzu. :D
 
TFred

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Interesting side note... Dick Morris thinks that Steny Hoyer is not far from becoming the next Speaker of the House.

Maybe he sees the writing on the wall, and is courting the moderate Democrats to support him in such a move.

I think this link goes to Dick Morris' video on the subject, but I can't tell for sure, they block YT at work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_njABSSZ1I

TFred
 
Brass Magnet

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
Mao Tse Tung... or 'Ze Dong' as is the recent translation.
Click to expand...
Totally off topic......

And Tsing Tao beer is actually Qing Dao.

I've been there andthe beer is tastier, they only send us the rotten stuff...

Qing Dao Hu is even better..

I'm thirsty:lol:
 
Washintonian_For_Liberty

Washintonian_For_Liberty

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Brass Magnet wrote:
Sonora Rebel wrote:
Mao Tse Tung... or 'Ze Dong' as is the recent translation.
Click to expand...
Totally off topic......

And Tsing Tao beer is actually Qing Dao.

I've been there andthe beer is tastier, they only send us the rotten stuff...

Qing Dao Hu is even better..

I'm thirsty:lol:
Click to expand...

Drinking in China, Hong Kong and Taiwan is awesome since it is so friggin cheap... and the scenery is so nice... you don't need beer goggles to see hot chicks everywhere.

7.jpg


I miss those days I suppose... ah yes, the good ol clubbin days staying out until 6am. This pic was probably taken at 2 or 3am.
 
Bookman

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I'm neither Democrat nor Republican. In fact I refuse to vote for either party for the foreseeable future as they are both basically the same.

I'm also not a right-wing liberal or a left-wing conservative. I'm actually slightly right of center

What I am is a gun owner who believes EVERY right is sacred. I believe the Constitution is important enough that it deserves to be capitalized EVERY time you spell it out. I believe it doesn't Give us our rights; it protects them.

I also believe in the old definitions of liberal and conservative. A Liberal is someone who wants Big Brother regulating every aspect of our lives (Big Government). A Conservative is someone who wants as little to do with government as possible (Small Government).

IMHO the only conservative political parties left are the little ones. The Republicans forfeited the right to claim that when they created the DHS, which sounds an awful lot like Obama's national police force to me.

All of that being said, there are gun owners and 2A supporters on both sides of the aisle. Wasn't it 65 (?) Democrats who signed a letter to President Obama telling him they refused to vote for a renewed AWB? And didn't John McCain promise to close the "gun show loophole"? In the end, I don't buy this whole Democrat v Republican thing, even if they do.

The liberal v conservative argument, when discussing 2A rights, has also become a moot point. It seems most people no longer know the definitions.
 
Washintonian_For_Liberty

Washintonian_For_Liberty

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Bookman wrote:
I also believe in the old definitions of liberal and conservative. A Liberal is someone who wants Big Brother regulating every aspect of our lives (Big Government). A Conservative is someone who wants as little to do with government as possible (Small Government).
Click to expand...
Those are actually the new definitions. Liberal used to mean "For Liberty" And Conservative meant "Against Change". So in a sense, I guess the original founders were Liberal Conservatives in the sense they wanted to preserve Liberty and make it nearly impossible to change.

Bookman wrote:
IMHO the only conservative political parties left are the little ones. The Republicans forfeited the right to claim that when they created the DHS, which sounds an awful lot like Obama's national police force to me.
Click to expand...
While the DHS is a really out of control huge bureaucratic monstrosity... it is an amalgam of around 70 smaller agencies all bundled into one... so it was not really created, but rather reorganized and consolidated.

Obama telling him they refused to vote for a renewed AWB? And didn't John McCain promise to close the "gun show loophole"? In the end, I don't buy this whole Democrat v Republican thing, even if they do.

The liberal v conservative argument, when discussing 2A rights, has also become a moot point. It seems most people no longer know the definitions.
[/quote]
The fact that people have lost the meanings and now just vote for a (D) or an (R) just shows the importance of re-taking the Republican Party and getting more Constitutionalists elected. The more we have, the better the whole country will be for it.
 
ixtow

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Bookman wrote:
I'm neither Democrat nor Republican. In fact I refuse to vote for either party for the foreseeable future as they are both basically the same.

I'm also not a right-wing liberal or a left-wing conservative. I'm actually slightly right of center

What I am is a gun owner who believes EVERY right is sacred. I believe the Constitution is important enough that it deserves to be capitalized EVERY time you spell it out. I believe it doesn't Give us our rights; it protects them.

I also believe in the old definitions of liberal and conservative. A Liberal is someone who wants Big Brother regulating every aspect of our lives (Big Government). A Conservative is someone who wants as little to do with government as possible (Small Government).

IMHO the only conservative political parties left are the little ones. The Republicans forfeited the right to claim that when they created the DHS, which sounds an awful lot like Obama's national police force to me.

All of that being said, there are gun owners and 2A supporters on both sides of the aisle. Wasn't it 65 (?) Democrats who signed a letter to President Obama telling him they refused to vote for a renewed AWB? And didn't John McCain promise to close the "gun show loophole"? In the end, I don't buy this whole Democrat v Republican thing, even if they do.

The liberal v conservative argument, when discussing 2A rights, has also become a moot point. It seems most people no longer know the definitions.
Click to expand...
The divide and conquer scheme is growing thin... People don't know the definitions anymore, because the politicians are starting to show us that the lines are very blurry, as in, invented.... They're all the same and the division of /conservative/liberal has been nothing but a divisive scam.
 
richarcm

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I dont trust it. I think admitting defeat is simply a strategy to get us to back down. NEVER BACK DOWN!
 
richarcm

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ixtow wrote:
Bookman wrote:
I'm neither Democrat nor Republican. In fact I refuse to vote for either party for the foreseeable future as they are both basically the same.

I'm also not a right-wing liberal or a left-wing conservative. I'm actually slightly right of center

What I am is a gun owner who believes EVERY right is sacred. I believe the Constitution is important enough that it deserves to be capitalized EVERY time you spell it out. I believe it doesn't Give us our rights; it protects them.

I also believe in the old definitions of liberal and conservative. A Liberal is someone who wants Big Brother regulating every aspect of our lives (Big Government). A Conservative is someone who wants as little to do with government as possible (Small Government).

IMHO the only conservative political parties left are the little ones. The Republicans forfeited the right to claim that when they created the DHS, which sounds an awful lot like Obama's national police force to me.

All of that being said, there are gun owners and 2A supporters on both sides of the aisle. Wasn't it 65 (?) Democrats who signed a letter to President Obama telling him they refused to vote for a renewed AWB? And didn't John McCain promise to close the "gun show loophole"? In the end, I don't buy this whole Democrat v Republican thing, even if they do.

The liberal v conservative argument, when discussing 2A rights, has also become a moot point. It seems most people no longer know the definitions.
Click to expand...
The divide and conquer scheme is growing thin... People don't know the definitions anymore, because the politicians are starting to show us that the lines are very blurry, as in, invented.... They're all the same and the division of /conservative/liberal has been nothing but a divisive scam.
Click to expand...
I buy into this a little but not much. I know that there are many who run on the Republican ticket because it is their only chance to win. People who are not party line, are for our rights and are for standing up for the Constitution. I agree that both parties need purging. But I think that painting both parties this way with such a broad brush is not completely accurate. The trick is doing your research on the Democrats and/or Republicans, demanding less rhetoric and more results, and picking the one that best fits what we need. The problem is that the bad politicians have gotten us addicted to mud slinging instead of real debate, strong backgrounds and results. I have a feeling that if we had 3 or 4 parties nothing much would change. At first maybe, but it would eventually become more of the same.
 
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