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Thread: Self Defense is Murder

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    Found this on Yahoo Answers this one in particular sounds like a member of the Brady Bunch
    People do things that the feel justified in doing. When someone kills some one, if it was not an "accident" they do it because they think its the right thing to do for them at the time. What type of murderer should feel remorseful over others? If a cop kills someone on the job they are enforcing laws, not the right thing. There is no difference between a serial kill murdering people and going home to his wife and a cop killing someone and going home to his wife. They both thought they did the right thing for them. If someone raped me and I murdered him than I reduced his entire humanity and identity to that of a rapist so that I can justify my anger and malice and kill him. There is no such thing as murdering people for a good cause. That's an oxymoron. You can kill people for your cause. It is dangerous to paint some people as bad murderers and some people as good murderers. They all killed somebody.
    You can see all of them and the question at http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1173653AAN3oB6

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    FYI Yahoo Answers is filled with children.

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    Murder has its own definition. Entirely different from killing someone.

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    Pose this little question to idiots like this.

    In the final seconds of your child's life, just before her killer is about to dispatch her to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather she have in her hand? A cell phone or a gun?


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Moral relativism is a serious problem with modern day liberals. The Taliban is no different than the US Government, and a mass murderer who kills for fun is no different than a man or woman who defend themselves from bodily harm with deadly force. Everyone is the same, they just have different views on the world and nobody's view is any better or worse than anyone else's view.

    Moral relativists should be institutionalised as they are too stupid and dangerous to participate in society.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Pose this little question to idiots like this.

    In the final seconds of your child's life, just before her killer is about to dispatch her to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather she have in her hand? A cell phone or a gun?
    The "correct" answer should be neither, since if she calls for help, someone with a gun may respond and "murder" the wouldbe killer. Instead, she should do nothing but whisper soothing "empowering" and "life affirming" words to her murderer which bolster his self-esteem as a murderer.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    Moral relativism is a serious problem with modern day liberals. The Taliban is no different than the US Government
    That's right. The US government is waaaaay worse.

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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    Moral relativism is a serious problem with modern day liberals. The Taliban is no different than the US Government
    That's right. The US government is waaaaay worse.


    You're right... the US Government does way worse things to its own citizens.:quirky
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    Moral relativism is a serious problem with modern day liberals. The Taliban is no different than the US Government
    That's right. The US government is waaaaay worse.


    You're right... the US Government does way worse things to its own citizens.:quirky
    When did I say anything about its own citizens? I wonder if that AK he's holding was US funded. :quirky

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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    Moral relativism is a serious problem with modern day liberals. The Taliban is no different than the US Government
    That's right. The US government is waaaaay worse.


    You're right... the US Government does way worse things to its own citizens.:quirky
    When did I say anything about its own citizens? I wonder if that AK he's holding was US funded. :quirky
    Using that logic.... if an employee of a company goes nuts and guns down his coworkers, it is the Company's fault because it was paying him and he used that money to buy guns?

    Oh, I got one better... because a person gets killed by a bullet... it is the fault of the bullet manufacturer? How about the gun maker? How about a man who purchases a gun for self defense at his own home... but 10 years later, he loses his job and kills his whole family... is it the Company's fault for firing him? Or for paying him in the first place?

    Your arguments are weak and full of holes...
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    Moral relativism is a serious problem with modern day liberals. The Taliban is no different than the US Government
    That's right. The US government is waaaaay worse.


    You're right... the US Government does way worse things to its own citizens.:quirky
    When did I say anything about its own citizens? I wonder if that AK he's holding was US funded. :quirky
    Using that logic.... if an employee of a company goes nuts and guns down his coworkers, it is the Company's fault because it was paying him and he used that money to buy guns?

    Oh, I got one better... because a person gets killed by a bullet... it is the fault of the bullet manufacturer? How about the gun maker? How about a man who purchases a gun for self defense at his own home... but 10 years later, he loses his job and kills his whole family... is it the Company's fault for firing him? Or for paying him in the first place?

    Your arguments are weak and full of holes...


    Um... yea... Blaming the tobacco company for giving you lung cancer is definitely exactly the same thing as saying the country that supports terrorists and terrorism,when convenient to do so (and invades other sovereign nations on allegations of doing the same, when convenient to do so), is as bad or worse than the insignificant terrorist foot soldiers. :quirky

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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Um... yea... Blaming the tobacco company for giving you lung cancer is definitely exactly the same thing as saying the country that supports terrorists and terrorism,when convenient to do so (and invades other sovereign nations on allegations of doing the same, when convenient to do so), is as bad or worse than the insignificant terrorist foot soldiers. :quirky
    Please learn how to express yourself with proper sentences and subjects and structure. Your English grammar is atrocious.

    No matter what Tobacco companies do... sickness or death as a result of smoking is the fault of the smoker. We knew from kids that smokingwas harmful to our health... and yetif you get emphysema or cancer.... you thenthink you should be able to sue the tobacco company? Don't smoke! I smoked once a long time ago... and then I quit. I knew the risks and did it anyway. I'm thankfully not sick...yet... but it isn't the fault of the tobacco company that I smoked... no one forced me to smoke.

    However, your paragraph is so obtuse... it's almost impossible to discern what you are trying to say.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Um... yea... Blaming the tobacco company for giving you lung cancer is definitely exactly the same thing as saying the country that supports terrorists and terrorism,when convenient to do so (and invades other sovereign nations on allegations of doing the same, when convenient to do so), is as bad or worse than the insignificant terrorist foot soldiers. :quirky
    Please learn how to express yourself with proper sentences and subjects and structure. Your English grammar is atrocious.
    Says the guy that just spliced an entire paragraph together with ellipses. :quirky

    No. It's not my fault that the complexity of my writing is light years over your head.

    Read it really slowly, use the punctuation marks as they're intended, and I'm sure you'll do just fine. Otherwise...







    ... it's nothing but a cop out.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    Interesting... when you cannot defend yourself... you create a Red Herring.

    Do you knowthe definition ofa run-on sentence? Learn it!
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    Interesting... when you cannot defend yourself... you create a Red Herring.

    Do you knowthe definition ofa run-on sentence? Learn it!

    I'll wait for someone else to own you on your fragments/running on sentence spliced by ellipses. When you move up from Dora The Explorer, you'll realize that length is not what qualifies a sentence as "run on," and, in fact,writers of higher skilltend to write in longer, morecomplex sentences. In the mean time...

    AWDstylez wrote:
    ... it's nothing but a cop out.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Maybe AWDStylez needs to be called out in the forum like airgunner23 so he can be banned too. Not sure what it takes to ban a troll these days; it seems to happen at random and completely without any reasoning whatsoever.

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    Don't get on me for referring to theology, but according to the teachings of the Catholic Church, self defense is NOT murder:

    From the Catecism of the Catholic Church - In explanation of the 5th Commandment: "Thou Shalt not Commit Murder."

    Article 2263: ...The act of self defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one'e own life; and the killing of the aggressor...The one is intended, the other is not.

    Article 2264: "Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow. ...nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take care of one's own life than of other's.

    Article 2265: Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life, the common good of the family or of the state.

    I'll stick with the Pope!!

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    Moral relativism is a serious problem with modern day liberals. The Taliban is no different than the US Government
    That's right. The US government is waaaaay worse.


    You're right... the US Government does way worse things to its own citizens.:quirky
    When did I say anything about its own citizens? I wonder if that AK he's holding was US funded. :quirky
    Using that logic.... if an employee of a company goes nuts and guns down his coworkers, it is the Company's fault because it was paying him and he used that money to buy guns?

    Oh, I got one better... because a person gets killed by a bullet... it is the fault of the bullet manufacturer? How about the gun maker? How about a man who purchases a gun for self defense at his own home... but 10 years later, he loses his job and kills his whole family... is it the Company's fault for firing him? Or for paying him in the first place?

    Your arguments are weak and full of holes...


    Um... yea... Blaming the tobacco company for giving you lung cancer is definitely exactly the same thing as saying the country that supports terrorists and terrorism,when convenient to do so (and invades other sovereign nations on allegations of doing the same, when convenient to do so), is as bad or worse than the insignificant terrorist foot soldiers. :quirky
    Maybe stylez, you could have gotten further by explaining that the CIA provided many of the weapons that the Taliban are currently using, to the mujahideen when they were fighting against our great rival at the time, the Soviet Union.

    Keep in mind here that the Soviets were carpet bombing villages that supported the mujahideen, while the mujahideen were torturing prisoners to death.

    When Jimmy Carter ordered the aid to the mujahideen,they believed that he would be weakening the Soviet Union.

    "We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would... The dat that the Soviets oficially crossed the border, I wrote to president Carter, "We now have the opportunity of giving the Soviet Union it's Vietnam War."

    Zbigniew Brzezinski, Carter's national security advisor in an interview in Le Nouvel Observateur, January 15-21 1998

    The Afghan-Soviet War has been credited as one of the major reasons for the Soviet Collapse.

    I am assuming this puts your comment into context, stylez?

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    thx997303 wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    Moral relativism is a serious problem with modern day liberals. The Taliban is no different than the US Government
    That's right. The US government is waaaaay worse.


    You're right... the US Government does way worse things to its own citizens.:quirky
    When did I say anything about its own citizens? I wonder if that AK he's holding was US funded. :quirky
    Using that logic.... if an employee of a company goes nuts and guns down his coworkers, it is the Company's fault because it was paying him and he used that money to buy guns?

    Oh, I got one better... because a person gets killed by a bullet... it is the fault of the bullet manufacturer? How about the gun maker? How about a man who purchases a gun for self defense at his own home... but 10 years later, he loses his job and kills his whole family... is it the Company's fault for firing him? Or for paying him in the first place?

    Your arguments are weak and full of holes...


    Um... yea... Blaming the tobacco company for giving you lung cancer is definitely exactly the same thing as saying the country that supports terrorists and terrorism,when convenient to do so (and invades other sovereign nations on allegations of doing the same, when convenient to do so), is as bad or worse than the insignificant terrorist foot soldiers. :quirky
    Maybe stylez, you could have gotten further by explaining that the CIA provided many of the weapons that the Taliban are currently using, to the mujahideen when they were fighting against our great rival at the time, the Soviet Union.

    Keep in mind here that the Soviets were carpet bombing villages that supported the mujahideen, while the mujahideen were torturing prisoners to death.

    When Jimmy Carter ordered the aid to the mujahideen,they believed that he would be weakening the Soviet Union.

    "We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would... The dat that the Soviets oficially crossed the border, I wrote to president Carter, "We now have the opportunity of giving the Soviet Union it's Vietnam War."

    Zbigniew Brzezinski, Carter's national security advisor in an interview in Le Nouvel Observateur, January 15-21 1998

    The Afghan-Soviet War has been credited as one of the major reasons for the Soviet Collapse.

    I am assuming this puts your comment into context, stylez?


    On a scale of 1-100, you zoomed out from a 1 to a 2. That's a drop in the bucket. What about supplies to Saddam? Does South America right a bell?

    The US is one of the biggest supporters of terrorism and terrorists in this world, but yet has the balls to invade other nations on the grounds of "supporting terrorism." Does it really get any worse than that? Who's more at fault, the guy that blows himself up or the nation that's providing the way, means, and motive?

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    compmanio365 wrote:
    Maybe AWDStylez needs to be called out in the forum like airgunner23 so he can be banned too. Not sure what it takes to ban a troll these days; it seems to happen at random and completely without any reasoning whatsoever.
    If anyone gets banned it's going to be you. I haven't seen you make an on-topic post in months. You hope from thread to thread slinging insults and calling me a troll, while never once posting anything worthwhile yourself.

    Wait, I forgot... OC.com troll = anyone the disagress with you

    :quirky

  21. #21
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Yes, it is indeed a drop in the bucket. I was attempting to put some context to what you were saying.

    Seriously, you make very broad statements, which makes it hard IMHO to agree with you on anything.

    Also, try using a little less sarcasm.

    Feel free to completely disregard anything I say, as I'm sure you will, and continue on in your current fashion.

    As I said in another thread, my opnion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

    And I'm not taking a position opposing or supporting your opinion here.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    AWDstylez wrote:
    The US is one of the biggest supporters of terrorism and terrorists in this world, but yet has the balls to invade other nations on the grounds of "supporting terrorism." Does it really get any worse than that? Who's more at fault, the guy that blows himself up or the nation that's providing the way, means, and motive?
    Ah yes, we now have proof that you are a pure 100% Liberal. You're probably also anti-gun... but just here to spy for the Brady Bunch or something.... typical leftist troll.

    My original post was on topic... yours was an unsubstantiated Stawman, which I refuted. We bandied back and forth and I called you out on your bad grammar... not an insult if its true... You then attacked me likethe Troll you are, and so you are a troll.

    I will not respond to your trolling any longer.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Well to get back on topic this person in her answer has given up reason for her Ideology. If someone comes into a school and starts shooting everybody and someone came to her defense and shot and killed the man she would want to see him tried for murder because she doesn't want to understand the difference. These people are dangerous especially when put in political power.

  24. #24
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    Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    The US is one of the biggest supporters of terrorism and terrorists in this world, but yet has the balls to invade other nations on the grounds of "supporting terrorism." Does it really get any worse than that? Who's more at fault, the guy that blows himself up or the nation that's providing the way, means, and motive?
    Ah yes, we now have proof that you are a pure 100% Liberal. You're probably also anti-gun... but just here to spy for the Brady Bunch or something.... typical leftist troll.

    My original post was on topic... yours was an unsubstantiated Stawman, which I refuted. We bandied back and forth and I called you out on your bad grammar... not an insult if its true... You then attacked me likethe Troll you are, and so you are a troll.

    I will not respond to your trolling any longer.




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    thx997303 wrote:
    Yes, it is indeed a drop in the bucket. I was attempting to put some context to what you were saying.

    Seriously, you make very broad statements, which makes it hard IMHO to agree with you on anything.

    Also, try using a little less sarcasm.

    Feel free to completely disregard anything I say, as I'm sure you will, and continue on in your current fashion.
    But, can you see why I make broad statements? It's a given that I'm arguing with a closed minded person. Why would I expend the time and effort to describe what I meant in detail when he's just going to ignore it anyway? Even aside from that, was there even a need to? You had no problem hitting on exactly what I was referring to. If you understood it, why can't everyone else? I use a lot of implication and subtlety in my posts, and I refer to a lot of things people should know about. If they can't grasp what I'm talking about, it's really not worth taking the time to explain because it won't get through anyway.

    And, yes, I know I'm very sarcastic. That's not intentional. It's exactly how I am in person.

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