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Self Defense is Murder

thx997303

thx997303

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Yes, it is indeed a drop in the bucket. I was attempting to put some context to what you were saying.

Seriously, you make very broad statements, which makes it hard IMHO to agree with you on anything.

Also, try using a little less sarcasm.

Feel free to completely disregard anything I say, as I'm sure you will, and continue on in your current fashion.

As I said in another thread, my opnion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

And I'm not taking a position opposing or supporting your opinion here.
 
Washintonian_For_Liberty

Washintonian_For_Liberty

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AWDstylez wrote:
The US is one of the biggest supporters of terrorism and terrorists in this world, but yet has the balls to invade other nations on the grounds of "supporting terrorism." Does it really get any worse than that? Who's more at fault, the guy that blows himself up or the nation that's providing the way, means, and motive?
Click to expand...

Ah yes, we now have proof that you are a pure 100% Liberal. You're probably also anti-gun... but just here to spy for the Brady Bunch or something.... typical leftist troll.

My original post was on topic... yours was an unsubstantiated Stawman, which I refuted. We bandied back and forth and I called you out on your bad grammar... not an insult if its true... You then attacked me likethe Troll you are, and so you are a troll.

I will not respond to your trolling any longer.
 
F

FunkTrooper

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Well to get back on topic this person in her answer has given up reason for her Ideology. If someone comes into a school and starts shooting everybody and someone came to her defense and shot and killed the man she would want to see him tried for murder because she doesn't want to understand the difference. These people are dangerous especially when put in political power.
 
A

AWDstylez

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
The US is one of the biggest supporters of terrorism and terrorists in this world, but yet has the balls to invade other nations on the grounds of "supporting terrorism." Does it really get any worse than that? Who's more at fault, the guy that blows himself up or the nation that's providing the way, means, and motive?
Click to expand...

Ah yes, we now have proof that you are a pure 100% Liberal. You're probably also anti-gun... but just here to spy for the Brady Bunch or something.... typical leftist troll.

My original post was on topic... yours was an unsubstantiated Stawman, which I refuted. We bandied back and forth and I called you out on your bad grammar... not an insult if its true... You then attacked me likethe Troll you are, and so you are a troll.

I will not respond to your trolling any longer.
Click to expand...



ladder_cop-out.jpg
 
A

AWDstylez

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thx997303 wrote:
Yes, it is indeed a drop in the bucket. I was attempting to put some context to what you were saying.

Seriously, you make very broad statements, which makes it hard IMHO to agree with you on anything.

Also, try using a little less sarcasm.

Feel free to completely disregard anything I say, as I'm sure you will, and continue on in your current fashion.
Click to expand...

But, can you see why I make broad statements? It's a given that I'm arguing with a closed minded person. Why would I expend the time and effort to describe what I meant in detail when he's just going to ignore it anyway? Even aside from that, was there even a need to? You had no problem hitting on exactly what I was referring to. If you understood it, why can't everyone else? I use a lot of implication and subtlety in my posts, and I refer to a lot of things people should know about. If they can't grasp what I'm talking about, it's really not worth taking the time to explain because it won't get through anyway.

And, yes, I know I'm very sarcastic. That's not intentional. It's exactly how I am in person.
 
thx997303

thx997303

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Yeah, I can see that point. I guess I get caught in the trap of assuming people know of these things.

I used to be extremely sarcastic myself, but my wife doesnt understand sarcasm so i had to taper it off quite a bit.

Some people need to disagree in a classier way, washingtonian being one of them.

To him I say, calm down guy, you arent going to change many minds by getting mad and carrying on.
 
I

Il_Duce

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
The US is one of the biggest supporters of terrorism and terrorists in this world, but yet has the balls to invade other nations on the grounds of "supporting terrorism." Does it really get any worse than that? Who's more at fault, the guy that blows himself up or the nation that's providing the way, means, and motive?
Click to expand...

Ah yes, we now have proof that you are a pure 100% Liberal. You're probably also anti-gun... but just here to spy for the Brady Bunch or something.... typical leftist troll.

My original post was on topic... yours was an unsubstantiated Stawman, which I refuted. We bandied back and forth and I called you out on your bad grammar... not an insult if its true... You then attacked me likethe Troll you are, and so you are a troll.

I will not respond to your trolling any longer.
Click to expand...
Frankly, you're the one trolling.
 
Washintonian_For_Liberty

Washintonian_For_Liberty

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Il_Duce wrote:
Frankly, you're the one trolling.
Click to expand...
Frankly you should try staying on topic... because only trolls make posts like yours.

Why not just talk about what the OP was talking about? Or do you agree with the person he's lambasting?

You see, I started in talking about moral equivalence and how it's bad... I used examples that AWDstylez didn't agree with... so instead of staying on topic, or addressing the issue of moral equivalence that was themainpoint of my position, he took it off topic to troll. Unfortunately, I fell for the bait and allowed his little "look at me, I'm important" tirade go on longer than it should have.

The issue I was talking about was moral equivalence... and I would have been happy to debate that in the context of "are all murders equal?" or "Is killing in self defense murder?" arguing whether or not moral equivalence plays a part in these assumptions. I was not looking to have an argument over who's worse, the Taliban or the US... but that was something that this troll was just waiting for.

So you can troll, or you can stay on topic... the choice is yours.
 
SouthernBoy

SouthernBoy

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Deanimator wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Pose this little question to idiots like this.

In the final seconds of your child's life, just before her killer is about to dispatch her to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather she have in her hand? A cell phone or a gun?
Click to expand...
The "correct" answer should be neither, since if she calls for help, someone with a gun may respond and "murder" the wouldbe killer. Instead, she should do nothing but whisper soothing "empowering" and "life affirming" words to her murderer which bolster his self-esteem as a murderer.
Click to expand...

Interesting you offered this. I tried this little question on a co-worker last year who, while very pleasant, is left-leaning. He thought for a moment, then said, "I'd rather neither one had a gun". Of course, the question does not mention the killer having a firearm, but his point was made anyway.

The reality of violent attack from evil people is a whole different thing than most realize. Having any sort of compassion or human connection with someone who has no compunction about killing you is a mistake one might only make once. Some people are worth more than others and there are differences in the value of human life. If this was not the case, we'd all think like this misguided individual who is the subject of this thread.
 
A

AWDstylez

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SouthernBoy wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Pose this little question to idiots like this.

In the final seconds of your child's life, just before her killer is about to dispatch her to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather she have in her hand? A cell phone or a gun?
Click to expand...
The "correct" answer should be neither, since if she calls for help, someone with a gun may respond and "murder" the wouldbe killer. Instead, she should do nothing but whisper soothing "empowering" and "life affirming" words to her murderer which bolster his self-esteem as a murderer.
Click to expand...

Interesting you offered this. I tried this little question on a co-worker last year who, while very pleasant, is left-leaning. He thought for a moment, then said, "I'd rather neither one had a gun". Of course, the question does not mention the killer having a firearm, but his point was made anyway.

The reality of violent attack from evil people is a whole different thing than most realize. Having any sort of compassion or human connection with someone who has no compunction about killing you is a mistake one might only make once. Some people are worth more than others and there are differences in the value of human life. If this was not the case, we'd all think like this misguided individual who is the subject of this thread.
Click to expand...



I don't even know why this is being debated/discussed. Every major ethical theory I know of recognizes self-defense by deadly force as a sometimes necessary last resort, and, in some cases, even asethically correct (in the propercontext). The girl being quoted simply needs to get out of the house a little more, and maybe sign up for Phil101.
 
I

Il_Duce

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
Il_Duce wrote:
Frankly, you're the one trolling.
Click to expand...
Frankly you should try staying on topic... because only trolls make posts like yours.

Why not just talk about what the OP was talking about? Or do you agree with the person he's lambasting?

You see, I started in talking about moral equivalence and how it's bad... I used examples that AWDstylez didn't agree with... so instead of staying on topic, or addressing the issue of moral equivalence that was themainpoint of my position, he took it off topic to troll. Unfortunately, I fell for the bait and allowed his little "look at me, I'm important" tirade go on longer than it should have.

The issue I was talking about was moral equivalence... and I would have been happy to debate that in the context of "are all murders equal?" or "Is killing in self defense murder?" arguing whether or not moral equivalence plays a part in these assumptions. I was not looking to have an argument over who's worse, the Taliban or the US... but that was something that this troll was just waiting for.

So you can troll, or you can stay on topic... the choice is yours.
Click to expand...
So now I'm a troll for calling you out on your troll. Good job, troll.
 
Deanimator

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SouthernBoy wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Pose this little question to idiots like this.

In the final seconds of your child's life, just before her killer is about to dispatch her to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather she have in her hand? A cell phone or a gun?
Click to expand...
The "correct" answer should be neither, since if she calls for help, someone with a gun may respond and "murder" the wouldbe killer. Instead, she should do nothing but whisper soothing "empowering" and "life affirming" words to her murderer which bolster his self-esteem as a murderer.
Click to expand...

Interesting you offered this. I tried this little question on a co-worker last year who, while very pleasant, is left-leaning. He thought for a moment, then said, "I'd rather neither one had a gun". Of course, the question does not mention the killer having a firearm, but his point was made anyway.

The reality of violent attack from evil people is a whole different thing than most realize. Having any sort of compassion or human connection with someone who has no compunction about killing you is a mistake one might only make once. Some people are worth more than others and there are differences in the value of human life. If this was not the case, we'd all think like this misguided individual who is the subject of this thread.
Click to expand...
Apparently, you're "less dead" when your murderer doesn't have a gun. Maybe when you're stabbed to death, somebody can throw a "raise dead fully" on your corpse and you'll come back to life. Hasn't worked on my godsister so far...

There's a class of anti-gunner who doesn't mind self-defense (especially for women) so long as the method is ineffective and the attempt is substantially likely to end with the defender dead or seriously injured. There's a big helping of misogyny in all of this... that and some people thinking that "Xena, Warrior Princess" was a documentary. A lot of anti-gunners seem to consider a savage beating to be "foreplay". They certainly don't appear to want a 110lb. woman to be able to say "no" to a 210lb. man and make it stick. I guess I'm supposed to be GLAD that my godsister was stabbed to death instead of shot and that she didn't "escalate the violence" by shooting her boyfriend to save her own life. As I've been told several times, she'd have had to "live with that for the rest of her life". That's certainly not a problem for her now...
 
Deanimator

Deanimator

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AWDstylez wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Pose this little question to idiots like this.

In the final seconds of your child's life, just before her killer is about to dispatch her to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather she have in her hand? A cell phone or a gun?
Click to expand...
The "correct" answer should be neither, since if she calls for help, someone with a gun may respond and "murder" the wouldbe killer. Instead, she should do nothing but whisper soothing "empowering" and "life affirming" words to her murderer which bolster his self-esteem as a murderer.
Click to expand...

Interesting you offered this. I tried this little question on a co-worker last year who, while very pleasant, is left-leaning. He thought for a moment, then said, "I'd rather neither one had a gun". Of course, the question does not mention the killer having a firearm, but his point was made anyway.

The reality of violent attack from evil people is a whole different thing than most realize. Having any sort of compassion or human connection with someone who has no compunction about killing you is a mistake one might only make once. Some people are worth more than others and there are differences in the value of human life. If this was not the case, we'd all think like this misguided individual who is the subject of this thread.
Click to expand...



I don't even know why this is being debated/discussed. Every major ethical theory I know of recognizes self-defense by deadly force as a sometimes necessary last resort, and, in some cases, even asethically correct (in the propercontext). The girl being quoted simply needs to get out of the house a little more, and maybe sign up for Phil101.
Click to expand...
Then your knowledge and experience are clearly inadequate, as I've REPEATEDLY been told by people that it's wrong to use deadly force in self-defense. Of course my response to such buffoonery is savage mockery rather than denial of its existence.
 
D

Don Barnett

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I concur whole-heartedly. My wife and I (Catholics) attended a different church one Sunday morning, and the assistant priest at that parish, was givinga homily about the advantages of unmarried clergy. He said that if you need a priest in the middle of the night, you can come to the rectory and knock on the door and we'll be there for you. But he went on to say: "If you break in, both Father "M" and I believe in the Second Amendment...so watch out."

I told my wife thatthis is our church from now on.

That same priest saw my bumper sticker: "Fight Crime...Shoot Back" and LOVED it. He then told me that he carries a .38 and has had to use it a few times to avert a robbery.
 
SouthernBoy

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AWDstylez wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Pose this little question to idiots like this.

In the final seconds of your child's life, just before her killer is about to dispatch her to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather she have in her hand? A cell phone or a gun?
Click to expand...
The "correct" answer should be neither, since if she calls for help, someone with a gun may respond and "murder" the wouldbe killer. Instead, she should do nothing but whisper soothing "empowering" and "life affirming" words to her murderer which bolster his self-esteem as a murderer.
Click to expand...

Interesting you offered this. I tried this little question on a co-worker last year who, while very pleasant, is left-leaning. He thought for a moment, then said, "I'd rather neither one had a gun". Of course, the question does not mention the killer having a firearm, but his point was made anyway.

The reality of violent attack from evil people is a whole different thing than most realize. Having any sort of compassion or human connection with someone who has no compunction about killing you is a mistake one might only make once. Some people are worth more than others and there are differences in the value of human life. If this was not the case, we'd all think like this misguided individual who is the subject of this thread.
Click to expand...



I don't even know why this is being debated/discussed. Every major ethical theory I know of recognizes self-defense by deadly force as a sometimes necessary last resort, and, in some cases, even asethically correct (in the propercontext). The girl being quoted simply needs to get out of the house a little more, and maybe sign up for Phil101.
Click to expand...

The sad thing is people who think like this person can get others injured or killed. Let's say your wife suggests going out to dinner with a new member of her staff and husband. So you all enjoy a nice meal and then a movie near by. On the way out to your car, the four of you are suddenly confronted by a couple of armed BG's. Managed to start a careful draw unnoticed when the new friend sees you and yells, "Oh my God, he's got a gun". The BG's hear this and open fire on your group.

Stranger things have happened.
 
A

AWDstylez

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SouthernBoy wrote:
The sad thing is people who think like this person can get others injured or killed. Let's say your wife suggests going out to dinner with a new member of her staff and husband. So you all enjoy a nice meal and then a movie near by. On the way out to your car, the four of you are suddenly confronted by a couple of armed BG's. Managed to start a careful draw unnoticed when the new friend sees you and yells, "Oh my God, he's got a gun". The BG's hear this and open fire on your group.

Stranger things have happened.
Click to expand...


Indeed, I wouldn't call that strange at all. In fact, I can easily see that happening. Dumb people are everywhere; they make up the majority of the population. I guess there's no escaping them.
 
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