Self Defense is Murder

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The naive (and very wrong) comment on Yahoo is a resultof indoctrinated fuzzy-think. Cicero argued self defense and the use of deadly force(for a common citizen)before the Roman Forum 2087 years ago (and won). Methinks the person who wrote that sillyness is a veryyoung girl who has never known a moment of real fear. Sadly... if she ever does... it will prob'ly be in her last moments before the :idea:goes on... and is extinguished.

Some people live their lives in La-La land. Lots of them end up prematurely dead.

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

The naive (and very wrong) comment on Yahoo is a resultof indoctrinated fuzzy-think. Cicero argued self defense and the use of deadly force (for a common citizen)before the Roman Forum 2087 years ago (and won). Methinks the person who wrote that sillyness is a veryyoung girl who has never known a moment of real fear. Sadly... if she ever does... it will prob'ly be in her last moments before the :idea:goes on... and is extinguished.

Some people live their lives in La-La land. Lots of them end up prematurely dead.

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Have you ever sat in on a public school classroom? How about this, if you have kids, have them bring in a secret tape recorder (an MP3 player with record function works best) and record the teacher. I will bet you'll find that in at least one class if not all of them, the children are being taught moral relativism. Everyone's values are equal, just different. They're taught that other cultures are not bad or evil, just different. So children grow up believing this crap, and when they're confronted with cultures that practice female genital mutilation, or those who execute women for showing their ankles... they believe that the USA is on an equal moral footing and also just as bad. This point has been argued here in this forum.

Moral relativism convinces children over time (with help from bleeding heart liberal teachers) that all killing is wrong... and that no matter if the robber kills his victim or the potential victimkills the robber in self defense makes no difference in the end as all killing is murder. They are taught not to discriminate against the robber, but rather, try and understand the robber's position in life and why he's a robber in the first place. Who made him a robber... well, it's likely the so-called victim who selfishly voted for Republicans who then got rid of welfare and other programs that then forced the poor to commit robbery. I've actually heard a similar explanation... that shooting a robber is racism... because it isn't their fault they're forced into a life of crime... it is selfish Republican/Conservative government policies that gave them no choice.

Moral relativism is a cancer in our society that must be stamped out... because when moral relativists get into power.... gee, like the ones who are now in power.... they make us all less safe and invite the fox into the hen-house.

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

Sonora Rebel wrote:

The naive (and very wrong) comment on Yahoo is a resultof indoctrinated fuzzy-think. Cicero argued self defense and the use of deadly force (for a common citizen)before the Roman Forum 2087 years ago (and won). Methinks the person who wrote that sillyness is a veryyoung girl who has never known a moment of real fear. Sadly... if she ever does... it will prob'ly be in her last moments before the :idea:goes on... and is extinguished.

Some people live their lives in La-La land. Lots of them end up prematurely dead.

Click to expand...

Have you ever sat in on a public school classroom? How about this, if you have kids, have them bring in a secret tape recorder (an MP3 player with record function works best) and record the teacher. I will bet you'll find that in at least one class if not all of them, the children are being taught moral relativism. Everyone's values are equal, just different. They're taught that other cultures are not bad or evil, just different. So children grow up believing this crap, and when they're confronted with cultures that practice female genital mutilation, or those who execute women for showing their ankles... they believe that the USA is on an equal moral footing and also just as bad. This point has been argued here in this forum.

Moral relativism convinces children over time (with help from bleeding heart liberal teachers) that all killing is wrong... and that no matter if the robber kills his victim or the potential victimkills the robber in self defense makes no difference in the end as all killing is murder. They are taught not to discriminate against the robber, but rather, try and understand the robber's position in life and why he's a robber in the first place. Who made him a robber... well, it's likely the so-called victim who selfishly voted for Republicans who then got rid of welfare and other programs that then forced the poor to commit robbery. I've actually heard a similar explanation... that shooting a robber is racism... because it isn't their fault they're forced into a life of crime... it is selfish Republican/Conservative government policies that gave them no choice.

Moral relativism is a cancer in our society that must be stamped out... because when moral relativists get into power.... gee, like the ones who are now in power.... they make us all less safe and invite the fox into the hen-house.

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That's 100,000% incorrect. Just because schools are teaching kids to think in boarder terms, to consider MANY ethical theories, does not mean they're being brainwashed into all killing = murder. They're being taught to THINK, rather than to simply accept cultural norms as absolute fact. The idiotic conclusions they come to is a result of the society they live in and the media that controls it. It has very little to do with school.

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Have you ever sat in on a public school classroom?

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Better question would be have you ever sat in a classroom at all much less a public school classroom?

My wife, two of my daughters, my mother, several of my cousins and aunts are all public school teachers. Thisdoes not eveninclude the vast number of friends and aquaintences that I have that are public school teachers.The rhetoric you are spreading about public school teachers is pure BS from someone who appears to have never even set foot inside a school other than to complain about the amount of taxes you pay.

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PT111 wrote:

Have you ever sat in on a public school classroom?

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Better question would be have you ever sat in a classroom at all much less a public school classroom?

My wife, two of my daughters, my mother, several of my cousins and aunts are all public school teachers. Thisdoes not eveninclude the vast number of friends and acquaintances that I have that are public school teachers.The rhetoric you are spreading about public school teachers is pure BS from someone who appears to have never even set foot inside a school other than to complain about the amount of taxes you pay.

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All you needed to say was that your family members and friends don't partake in the mass indoctrination that is being passed off as education in this country... but instead, you decide you need to fling out insults.

Doesn't anyone on the left know how to have a civil discussion? I'm saddened by the continual ad hominem attacks as it shows a lack of character and a disdain for having anything resembling a civil debate in the arena of ideas. I will not take the bait by responding in kind to your personal attack, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt by asking you to please give a proper rebuttal.

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

Have you ever sat in on a public school classroom? How about this, if you have kids, have them bring in a secret tape recorder (an MP3 player with record function works best) and record the teacher. I will bet you'll find that in at least one class if not all of them, the children are being taught moral relativism. Everyone's values are equal, just different. They're taught that other cultures are not bad or evil, just different. So children grow up believing this crap, and when they're confronted with cultures that practice female genital mutilation, or those who execute women for showing their ankles... they believe that the USA is on an equal moral footing and also just as bad. This point has been argued here in this forum.

Moral relativism convinces children over time (with help from bleeding heart liberal teachers) that all killing is wrong... and that no matter if the robber kills his victim or the potential victimkills the robber in self defense makes no difference in the end as all killing is murder. They are taught not to discriminate against the robber, but rather, try and understand the robber's position in life and why he's a robber in the first place. Who made him a robber... well, it's likely the so-called victim who selfishly voted for Republicans who then got rid of welfare and other programs that then forced the poor to commit robbery. I've actually heard a similar explanation... that shooting a robber is racism... because it isn't their fault they're forced into a life of crime... it is selfish Republican/Conservative government policies that gave them no choice.

Moral relativism is a cancer in our society that must be stamped out... because when moral relativists get into power.... gee, like the ones who are now in power.... they make us all less safe and invite the fox into the hen-house.

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Not in my wife's classroom. Anyrubbish that ispolicy, is briefly discussed as it has to be, but it is not energeticallytaught. Some topics simply don't get discussedas maintaining the job is more important than making a statement. She does teach world cultures, world religions, and world geography, but at no time, will you find her teaching all areequal. The brainwashed little ones are free to make up their own minds based on the indoctrination of their parents, the media, and whatever other blather they are forced to listen to. Hopefully, they will obtain the apetite to actually learn things for themselves and will be able to discover the real truth about the world they live in.

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buster81 wrote:

Not in my wife's classroom. Anyrubbish that ispolicy, is briefly discussed as it has to be, but it is not energeticallytaught. Some topics simply don't get discussedas maintaining the job is more important than making a statement. She does teach world cultures, world religions, and world geography, but at no time, will you find her teaching all areequal. The brainwashed little ones are free to make up their own minds based on the indoctrination of their parents, the media, and whatever other blather they are forced to listen to. Hopefully, they will obtain the apetite to actually learn things for themselves and will be able to discover the real truth about the world they live in.

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Its good to know people are fighting against the trend in public schools. My nephew was going to the same school in Colorado where teacher Jay Bennish delivered a 20-minute, anti-American rant straight out of Noam Chomsky and Michael Moore to his 10th grade geography class.

Does she teach that Global Warming is happening and that the polar bear is being wiped out by the melting ice? I certainly hope not.

The indoctrination is happening in many schools.... my sister took her kids out of school because they were forcing both children and parents to watch an Inconvenient Truth or the child would get an F in that class. Her kids are now home schooled. My sister does not live in Colorado, but in Washington State. So in two states, and in two schools, my family has experienced the indoctrination and the propaganda being forced down our children's throat.

There are good conservative teachers who want nothing more than to teach the subject only.... and there are some who want to teach about Jesus... but they are far fewer than those liberal teachers who think that it is their duty to teach kids that America is bad and America is raping the worlds resources because of greed and that America is causing global warming... just look at the studies that show more and more kids are having nightmares and panic attacks about the planet dying... and all because of a lie.

These same teachers who push that crap are teaching moral equivalence. My sister isn't a Libertarian like me... she's pretty liberal on most stuff.... but even she was disgusted at how her kids were being taught...

Is tag banned at your wife's school? How about dodge ball? It is at many schools around the country because it is said to cause kids to feel bad. How about that coach of a Texas high school basketball team that beat another team 100-0being fired in January, the same day he sent an e-mail to a newspaper saying he will not apologize "for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity." Our kids are being taught that winning big is bad. They didn't taunt the other team, they just played until the buzzer. So what if it was a 100-0 win... taught the other girls a lesson... that they had no business playing basket ball... no matter how much they liked it. They were out of their league... but in this day and age of liberal indoctrination.... winning is bad.... moral equivalence is being taught by example... and success is being punished.

There was a PETA rally at a school in my Uncle's townin Oregon where the children were told that all farmers were murdering animals in cruel and evil ways.... this town was a FARM TOWN.... needless to say, many kids complained and the Teacher who invited PETA into the school was suspended.... should have been fired as far as I am concerned... but the Union blocked that.

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

PT111 wrote:

Have you ever sat in on a public school classroom?

Click to expand...

Better question would be have you ever sat in a classroom at all much less a public school classroom?

My wife, two of my daughters, my mother, several of my cousins and aunts are all public school teachers. Thisdoes not eveninclude the vast number of friends and acquaintances that I have that are public school teachers.The rhetoric you are spreading about public school teachers is pure BS from someone who appears to have never even set foot inside a school other than to complain about the amount of taxes you pay.

Click to expand...

All you needed to say was that your family members and friends don't partake in the mass indoctrination that is being passed off as education in this country... but instead, you decide you need to fling out insults.

Doesn't anyone on the left know how to have a civil discussion? I'm saddened by the continual ad hominem attacks as it shows a lack of character and a disdain for having anything resembling a civil debate in the arena of ideas. I will not take the bait by responding in kind to your personal attack, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt by asking you to please give a proper rebuttal.

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Talk baout fling out insults:

You are the one who made the generalizations about all teachers andinsulting every person in the teaching prefession. Secret tape recorders, accusing them of promotoing female mutilation, etc. If you go ask any teacher that I know you don't have to hide your tape recorder, just go in and sit in on hte class. My wife welcomes it and has at least one parent a week to do it. They get to see how their children act in class then go home and blame the teacher for their bad grades and behavior.

You need to go sit in several classes in a pubic school and learn the truth.

Have you ever sat in on a public school classroom? How about this, if you have kids, have them bring in a secret tape recorder (an MP3 player with record function works best) and record the teacher. I will bet you'll find that in at least one class if not all of them, the children are being taught moral relativism. Everyone's values are equal, just different. They're taught that other cultures are not bad or evil, just different. So children grow up believing this crap, and when they're confronted with cultures that practice female genital mutilation, or those who execute women for showing their ankles... they believe that the USA is on an equal moral footing and also just as bad. This point has been argued here in this forum.

Click to expand...

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

PT111 wrote:

Have you ever sat in on a public school classroom?

Click to expand...

Better question would be have you ever sat in a classroom at all much less a public school classroom?

My wife, two of my daughters, my mother, several of my cousins and aunts are all public school teachers. Thisdoes not eveninclude the vast number of friends and acquaintances that I have that are public school teachers.The rhetoric you are spreading about public school teachers is pure BS from someone who appears to have never even set foot inside a school other than to complain about the amount of taxes you pay.

Click to expand...

All you needed to say was that your family members and friends don't partake in the mass indoctrination that is being passed off as education in this country... but instead, you decide you need to fling out insults.

Doesn't anyone on the left know how to have a civil discussion?

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LOL Ok Hannity, anyone that points out when you're blatantly wrong is now "left."

Back up what you've said about the education system.

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AWDstylez wrote:

LOL Ok Hannity, anyone that points out when you're blatantly wrong is now "left."

Back up what you've said about the education system.

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You are aperfect example of todays 'education system'. 'Nuff said.

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

Its good to know people are fighting against the trend in public schools. My nephew was going to the same school in Colorado where teacher Jay Bennish delivered a 20-minute, anti-American rant straight out of Noam Chomsky and Michael Moore to his 10th grade geography class.

Does she teach that Global Warming is happening and that the polar bear is being wiped out by the melting ice? I certainly hope not.

The indoctrination is happening in many schools.... my sister took her kids out of school because they were forcing both children and parents to watch an Inconvenient Truth or the child would get an F in that class. Her kids are now home schooled. My sister does not live in Colorado, but in Washington State. So in two states, and in two schools, my family has experienced the indoctrination and the propaganda being forced down our children's throat.

There are good conservative teachers who want nothing more than to teach the subject only.... and there are some who want to teach about Jesus... but they are far fewer than those liberal teachers who think that it is their duty to teach kids that America is bad and America is raping the worlds resources because of greed and that America is causing global warming... just look at the studies that show more and more kids are having nightmares and panic attacks about the planet dying... and all because of a lie.

These same teachers who push that crap are teaching moral equivalence. My sister isn't a Libertarian like me... she's pretty liberal on most stuff.... but even she was disgusted at how her kids were being taught...

Is tag banned at your wife's school? How about dodge ball? It is at many schools around the country because it is said to cause kids to feel bad. How about that coach of a Texas high school basketball team that beat another team 100-0being fired in January, the same day he sent an e-mail to a newspaper saying he will not apologize "for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity." Our kids are being taught that winning big is bad. They didn't taunt the other team, they just played until the buzzer. So what if it was a 100-0 win... taught the other girls a lesson... that they had no business playing basket ball... no matter how much they liked it. They were out of their league... but in this day and age of liberal indoctrination.... winning is bad.... moral equivalence is being taught by example... and success is being punished.

There was a PETA rally at a school in my Uncle's townin Oregon where the children were told that all farmers were murdering animals in cruel and evil ways.... this town was a FARM TOWN.... needless to say, many kids complained and the Teacher who invited PETA into the school was suspended.... should have been fired as far as I am concerned... but the Union blocked that.

Click to expand...

Global Warming: Nope. I think it's utter BS, and she doesn't buy it either.It's never mentioned in her class. The planet is in a constant state of climate change and always will be. Where the 50 preceding years before the last ice age "global cooling"?

Tag, dodge ball, murder ball, british bulldog and keeping score: Not allowed. It's rubishand she doesn't agree with no losers, but, those are the rules. It's hard to keep a job and fix the entire world at the same time.

I don't know when everyone turned into a cry baby. When I was a kid, every playground sport was full contact and score was definetly kept. Fights were resolved in the woods behind the school, and the teachers didn't know anything about it.

She doesn't agree with no child left behind either, but there is nothing one can do about it from the class room. The standards of learning (not coincidently SOL (it gives me a chuckle all the time)) are BS as well. No child left behind is actually some childrens education left behin, but what is someone in the trenches to do?

Now, if someone enlightened could get into the upper levels of education administration, perhaps change could happen. Anyone interested in a pay cut?

Back on topic, it's my suspicion that anyone that believe self defense is murder, wets the bed, and spends their entire day wringing their hands in worry.

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PT111 wrote:

Talk baout fling out insults:

You are the one who made the generalizations about all teachers andinsulting every person in the teaching prefession.

I will bet you'll find that in at least one class if not all of them, the children are being taught moral relativism. Everyone's values are equal, just different. They're taught that other cultures are not bad or evil, just different. So children grow up believing this crap, and when they're confronted with cultures that practice female genital mutilation, or those who execute women for showing their ankles... they believe that the USA is on an equal moral footing and also just as bad. This point has been argued here in this forum.

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You're just a tad hypersensitive... I did no such thing. I was pretty clear that I believed you would find at least one... and maybe even all classes being taught moral relativism.


PT111 wrote:

Secret tape recorders, accusing them of promotoing female mutilation, etc.

I will bet you'll find that in at least one class if not all of them, the children are being taught moral relativism. Everyone's values are equal, just different. They're taught that other cultures are not bad or evil, just different. So children grow up believing this crap, and when they're confronted with cultures that practice female genital mutilation, or those who execute women for showing their ankles... they believe that the USA is on an equal moral footing and also just as bad. This point has been argued here in this forum.

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Read what I wrote instead of changing it to fit your narrow view of what you THINK I said. I never said that the teachers are promoting female mutilation... you're taking what I said out of context to vilify me. It won't work. Either argue properly or just go away.

PT111 wrote:

If you go ask any teacher that I know you don't have to hide your tape recorder, just go in and sit in on hte class. My wife welcomes it and has at least one parent a week to do it. They get to see how their children act in class then go home and blame the teacher for their bad grades and behavior.

Click to expand...

[/quote]
Was not my point. Ifyour family does not promote the standard indoctrination, then fine... but I have a hard time believing that. This subject is well documented and the only people who disagree with the premise are those who are benefiting from the propaganda. Again, I've made it clear, that if your family members who are teachers don't push the propaganda that many in our public schools are pushing... good for them. And to reiterate, so you cannot claim a misunderstanding... I never said ALL teachers. I said at least one class.... if not all classes would have some form of moral relativism being taught. So, maybe in your wife's school, only one teacher is doing it... maybe she's the only teacher NOT doing it. I can't say since I don't know (and don't care) what school your wife works at.

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This thread has gone to hell.

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buster81 wrote:

Global Warming: Nope. I think it's utter BS, and she doesn't buy it either.It's never mentioned in her class. The planet is in a constant state of climate change and always will be. Where the 50 preceding years before the last ice age "global cooling"?

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Good to hear. It's becoming a struggle to get schools to abandon the idea of man made global warming. It is scientifically unsupportable, but they still push it. Sad really.

buster81 wrote:

Tag, dodge ball, murder ball, british bulldog and keeping score: Not allowed. It's rubishand she doesn't agree with no losers, but, those are the rules. It's hard to keep a job and fix the entire world at the same time.

I don't know when everyone turned into a cry baby. When I was a kid, every playground sport was full contact and score was definetly kept. Fights were resolved in the woods behind the school, and the teachers didn't know anything about it.

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This is where the girl who posted the idea that killing in self defense is no different than murder has come from. Remember, the same people who are saying that keeping score is damaging our children are those promoting moral equivalence. No one is a winner or loser... we're all good in our own way... etc etc... its the same mindset. This has infested schools across this country. You'd be hard pressed to find a school that has not banned tag or dodge ball or keeping score. If they don't ban keeping score, they'll most certainly punish you for scoring too high. They're bringing down the over achievers so the under achievers don't feel bad. This practice stems from moral equivalence. They are radical egalitarians and cannot be trusted.

childrens education left behin, but what is someone in the trenches to do?

Now, if someone enlightened could get into the upper levels of education administration, perhaps change could happen. Anyone interested in a pay cut?
[/quote]
The education system is now putting out crybabies and pussies. Kids who think achievement should just be handed to them and kids who think everyone is equal in their own way... which is utter BS. I'm glad to know that there are teachers out there who dislike the system and want to see change... the problem is, the Teacher's Union does not want to see change... and they're using your wife's money to make sure it does not change. Let's see teachers try and refuse to join the union... no jobs for them.

buster81 wrote:

Back on topic, it's my suspicion that anyone that believe self defense is murder, wets the bed, and spends their entire day wringing their hands in worry.

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The person who wrote that self defense is murder is the same type of person that a school that bans tag and keeping score produces. This leads right back to my point that it is the schools and the teaching of moral equivalence that is going to be our downfall.

Teach reading, writing and arithmetic, teach standard dry history and geography... don't teach Noam Chomsky's version of geography or that borders of countries are racist.... this is something that isn't for high school... it isn't for grade school. It should be left to elective courses in college that students can choose to take or not take. Because as much as I hate what they're saying... I won't deny them free speech... they just cannot have it in a classroom where children are FORCED to attend.

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buster81 wrote:

<snip>

She doesn't agree with no child left behind either, but there is nothing one can do about it from the class room. The standards of learning (not coincidently SOL (it gives me a chuckle all the time)) are BS as well. No child left behind is actually some childrens education left behin, but what is someone in the trenches to do?

Now, if someone enlightened could get into the upper levels of education administration, perhaps change could happen. Anyone interested in a pay cut?

Back on topic, it's my suspicion that anyone that believe self defense is murder, wets the bed, and spends their entire day wringing their hands in worry.

Click to expand...

The person that came up with no child left behind should be waterboarded for 18 days then hanged, drawn and quartered after being tarred and feathered. It does nothing but bring down all students to the level of the lowest and every teacher I know hates it.

Murder is whatever society defines it to be and I know of no one in our society, except maybe a few idiots or trolls, that defineskilling in self-defense as murder. There may be some society that does but I don't know where it is and don't want to go there. Just like slavery is wrong in the US society but in many parts of the world it is still practiced and accepted as a normal way of life. In fact right now there are probably more slaves in the world than there were ever in the US. I am not condoning murder or slavery and will do all I can to prevent it but in some places it is accepted.

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Murder: The unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse.

War: A contention by force; or the art of paralysing the forces of an enemy. Also: The extension of national policy by other means. (Clauswitz)

Justifiable Homocide: A killing without evil or criminal intent, for which there can be no blame, such as self-defense to protect oneself or to protect another.

Execution: A putting to death as a legal penalty; death lawfully inflicted; as, the execution of a murderer.

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

Moral relativism is a serious problem with modern day liberals. The Taliban is no different than the US Government, and a mass murderer who kills for fun is no different than a man or woman who defend themselves from bodily harm with deadly force. Everyone is the same, they just have different views on the world and nobody's view is any better or worse than anyone else's view.

Moral relativists should be institutionalised as they are too stupid and dangerous to participate in society.

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All relativism is poison. Truth is absolute.

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hansolo wrote:

Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

Moral relativism is a serious problem with modern day liberals. The Taliban is no different than the US Government, and a mass murderer who kills for fun is no different than a man or woman who defend themselves from bodily harm with deadly force. Everyone is the same, they just have different views on the world and nobody's view is any better or worse than anyone else's view.

Moral relativists should be institutionalised as they are too stupid and dangerous to participate in society.

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All relativism is poison. Truth is absolute.

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Nothing is absolute.

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FunkTrooper wrote:

Nothing is absolute.

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Death is.

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

FunkTrooper wrote:

Nothing is absolute.

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Death is.

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That's arguable.