Legal question regarding personal vehicle

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My employer has added a new policy regarding weapons on the premises. They want me to sign a form giving them permission to search my personal vehicle any time they want to, it was attached to a form stating no weapons are allowed on company premises. However if I have my weapon in MY car properly stored why do I need to give them permission to search my car?

It doesn't sound like they have the right to do this, and I don't intend on giving up my rights in this issue. Any lawyers have an answer?

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I'm almost postive they CAN if you signthat form.

Is there someplace nearby you can park off premises? Then they can't.

But yeah, if they ask for permissionand you are on premises, you are giving up your rights. I still think they need a reason, but that's pretty easy to come by "so and so said he had a gun in his car"

I think your options are sign it and don't keep a gun in your car,

Quit

Discuss withthe powers that be, your concerns with the policy.

If that doesn't work,I wouldn't quit on principle. Finda good/better job FIRST and THEN quit on principle.

When they start losing good employees because of a draconian policy, they'll change it.

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bigdaddy1 wrote:

My employer has added a new policy regarding weapons on the premises. They want me to sign a form giving them permission to search my personal vehicle any time they want to, it was attached to a form stating no weapons are allowed on company premises. However if I have my weapon in MY car properly stored why do I need to give them permission to search my car?

It doesn't sound like they have the right to do this, and I don't intend on giving up my rights in this issue. Any lawyers have an answer?

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I would not sign any form giving them consentto search my personal property with no probable cause. What will happen if you refuse to sign the form? Have theythreatened to terminate you for refusal to sign?

I would make a call to an attorney that specializes in employee rights to see what they have to say about the deal.
If I remember correctly, personal lockers at a place of employment cannot be searched without consent or probable cause, and those lockers belong to the company. So how can they expect to search someone personal mode of transportation without probable cause?

Are you in a position where you could rally against this tactic and get everyone employed there to refuse to sign the consent form?
Rights are Rights, If the federal government is not supposed to violate your rights, how can an employer expect to be able to violate them or get consent for them to viloate them?



Hmm, I found a thread right n OCDO with this same exact topic, here>> http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=21902&forum_id=7&jump_to=399953



See if that answers any questions for you.


EDIT: an employer cannot search your vehicle without permission, That is why they are trying to get your permission! if you refuse, expect some backlash, but they have no legal right to search a private vehicle. They could call the police who would then need probable cause to search and again they would also need to ask your permission.

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At this point I am refusing to sign the policy. There are several others that feel the same way. We are trying to band together and get support.

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Unionize

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Flipper wrote:

Unionize

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Not a viable option at this time. However if we can get enough employees behind the issue that should force managment to reconsider.

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My guess is they CAN fire you for refusing to sign. The Wisconsin Equal Employment Law does have a provision where it is illegal to discriminate in employment for "use of a lawful product." But it specifically refers to the use of a lawful product outside of work time and off the employer's premises. The law was intended to cover alcohol and tobacco, but since it was never specifically narrowed down to those two things in the language it can conceivably cover anything that is a lawful product. So I think it is safe to say they cannot do anything against you for simply owning and using firearms. But on their property the law will support the employer.

I know, it sucks!

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Will they be willing to terminate 1/2 thier staff? I suspect not. I will see if there is enough support drumed up.

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Wisconsin is a "no fault fire " state. They don't need a reason to fire you. Employers CAN search your locker without your permission it is their property. Employers do need probable cause (drugs alcohol guns or anything against the policy).As for the car issue you again are parking on their property so they can search you car through the windows. If they see a something that is against the rules they can ask you to search your car. If you refuse you can be fired. And you can bet LEO will be there. If it is against their policy your screwed. Best bet don't tell anyone you carry. Make sure you can't see it. You won't be able to trust anyone after the policy has changed. Employers can make rules as they see fit everything from smoking to cell phones and even if it is a bunch of BS it is still their policy.

I dont thinkI would want to loose my job right now. I work at a machine shop and we get10 to20 applications a week from out of work people.

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I thought I saw a law go through recently stating that a company couldn't fire you for bringing a weapon to work and leaving it secured inside of the vehicle in the parking lot.

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That was in MN, FL and a couple other states, WI hasn't done anything like that yet.

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Maybe its time we did something about it.

Anyone know how to start a petition to send to our wonderful government?

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hugh jarmis wrote:

I'm almost postive they CAN if you signthat form.

Is there someplace nearby you can park off premises? Then they can't.

But yeah, if they ask for permissionand you are on premises, you are giving up your rights. I still think they need a reason, but that's pretty easy to come by "so and so said he had a gun in his car"

I think your options are sign it and don't keep a gun in your car,

Quit

Discuss withthe powers that be, your concerns with the policy.

If that doesn't work,I wouldn't quit on principle. Finda good/better job FIRST and THEN quit on principle.

When they start losing good employees because of a draconian policy, they'll change it.

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Here is another option:

Do not sign that form. If they search or attempt to search your vehicle it is a violation of your fourth Amendment rights.

In which case you sue them and then you own the company and can allow Open Carry in the work place....

Do not sign that form, they can not fire you for not signing.

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Lurchiron wrote:

Flipper wrote:

Unionize

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And start carrying your voice recorder, see if they slip up and threaten you; then nail them.

Something similar but medical record related happened at work, they tried to get you to "volunteer" your info to them by burying the clause in the small print that gave them the right to review your whole life history for "Health Risk Asessment" purposes. The wife & I side-stepped them by demanding the tests they wanted to take, and then went to our family doctor; had them do the tests and relayed the info to the company.(Touche'-point good guys).

In short, don'tsign the form; maybe persue them into letting you sign a waiver stating that you won't bring firearmson their property.



Lurch out.

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Sounds like a violation of the HIPA Laws

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LS16SpdZ99 wrote:

Wisconsin is a "no fault fire " state. They don't need a reason to fire you. Employers CAN search your locker without your permission it is their property. Employers do need probable cause (drugs alcohol guns or anything against the policy).As for the car issue you again are parking on their property so they can search you car through the windows. If they see a something that is against the rules they can ask you to search your car. If you refuse you can be fired. And you can bet LEO will be there. If it is against their policy your screwed. Best bet don't tell anyone you carry. Make sure you can't see it. You won't be able to trust anyone after the policy has changed. Employers can make rules as they see fit everything from smoking to cell phones and even if it is a bunch of BS it is still their policy.

I dont thinkI would want to loose my job right now. I work at a machine shop and we get10 to20 applications a week from out of work people.

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While the Plain Sight rule does apply, the employer cannot legally search the vehicle, only a law enforcement officer can. If there is nothing in plain sight then they cannot search either. At least not without your permission and without a warrant. There are also labor laws that apply here and they cannot fire your for not allowing them to search your property. Ok, they can fire you, but you will end up getting your job back and they will probably have to fill your pockets with CASH! This is one time you will need to have the courage to stand up for yourself.
Now if you left your pot pipe laying on the seat or your fire arm laying on the seat (even in a case) they could terminate you. Although for terminating you on the fire arm issue I still think you would win in court on a constitutional grounds.

By the way what is the name of this company so I know I won't be buying anything that comes from there?

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I would advise you to call The Department of Workforce Development the phone number is 1 608 266 3131.They will give you correct information you need to make the right decision. Don't go off half cocked and start some drama you don't need to

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LS16SpdZ99 wrote:

I would advise you to call The Department of Workforce Development the phone number is 1 608 266 3131.They will give you correct information you need to make the right decision. Don't go off half cocked and start some drama you don't need to

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Drama! You call someone willingly giving up their 4A rights because they exercise their 2A right, drama?

Ya know, I am going to leave it at that right now, I shouldn't even need to explain!

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J.Gleason wrote:

hugh jarmis wrote:

I'm almost postive they CAN if you signthat form.

Is there someplace nearby you can park off premises? Then they can't.

But yeah, if they ask for permissionand you are on premises, you are giving up your rights. I still think they need a reason, but that's pretty easy to come by "so and so said he had a gun in his car"

I think your options are sign it and don't keep a gun in your car,

Quit

Discuss withthe powers that be, your concerns with the policy.

If that doesn't work,I wouldn't quit on principle. Finda good/better job FIRST and THEN quit on principle.

When they start losing good employees because of a draconian policy, they'll change it.

Click to expand...

Here is another option:

Do not sign that form. If they search or attempt to search your vehicle it is a violation of your fourth Amendment rights.

In which case you sue them and then you own the company and can allow Open Carry in the work place....

Do not sign that form, they can not fire you for not signing.

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I disagree. As I stated above, refusal to sign the form IS reason enough for them to fire you. As LS16SpdZ99 correctly points out, you can be fired for no reason whatsoever in Wisconsin! If you are refusing to sign their form you are basically refusing to follow the employer's work rules and that IS a legitimate reason to fire you.

Employers cannot fire someone for a discriminatory reason, but any OTHER reason is legal. Firing without a reason is legal. A "discriminatory" reason means one of the few things specifically outlined by law, e.g., because of your age (over 40), your gender, marital status, religion, color, etc.

Now, if one-half of the employees refused to sign the form and they only fired, say, the black workers who refused to sign it, or only the older workers, you might have a viable discrimination complaint. Lacking that, you're screwed my friend. And that's exactly what they'll tell you when you call the state Equal Rights Division. Call them and ask.

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Well nutz most of us have bills to pay, children to feed, house payments and medical insurance so willing to loose you job over something that you cant use at work well thats drama. Imagine coming home to you wife and tell her that you just got fired because you couldn't leave you gun at home.I wouldn't want to do that but at the same timeI don't agree with the policy.