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Thread: Noise Ordenence

  1. #1
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    so apparently Blackman Township has a noise ordinance, i talked with them about it today. I was talking to one guy about it and some one else buts in(very rude) and tell me, "if some one is making ANY noise and it is bothering you, call 911!" Personally I think the best course of action is is to personally talk with the offending party.

    but, I am the offending party, me, my mosin nagat and my mossberg 500, and several pistols.

    I have 6 acres, I like to shoot, my neibor likes to call the cops.

    cops show up(extremely profesinal, outstanding police officers, no lights, no guns casual convo) long story short, he tells me I have to be 450 ft away form any building, I correct him and tell him it is for hunting only, he dissagrees, leaves it at that. then he got talking abotu back stops and what not, though we were shooing into wood and did retrieve avery piece of brass, he says the DNR has some specifacations that need to be followed. he was curious what guns I had, and as I rateled off the names, him and the other cop started laughing and mage a joke refrencing super troopers that I didn't get.

    they got back in their cars, and we started spliting the wod to get the projectials. Cop comes back... he apoligises for giving me band info tells me i'm right on the for hunting porpuses only. for targed practice distance doesn't matter. then tells me there is also a nois ordanance that he isn't 100%sure on the specifics, lets me know where I can get the info.(I got it today)



    so my questions for you to al fight over,

    1.)is a nois ordance unenforcable when pertaining to a firearm?

    2.) does any one know about these DNR required backstops? I can't find a thing.



  2. #2
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Kimberguy wrote:
    1.)is a nois ordance unenforcable when pertaining to a firearm?
    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.


    Sec. 2.

    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    Nothing about use or discharging a firearm in the state pre-emption law so based on that I would say that a local unit of government CAN regulate how/when/where you use it.

    As far as the backstop the only thing I found in myone-minute Google search was this question off the Michigan Hunter Education Volunteer Instructor Test.

    66. When target shooting a rifle or pistol, which of the following would be the only correct backstop

    A. a live tree.

    B. a rock wall

    C. a sand bank

    Bronson
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    i'm going to go with B rock wall. Final answer

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    I was thinking the same thing

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    I'm going to go with a sand bank. Why? I've gone shooting up and the DNR has come along, and hasn't said a thing. I also used a sand bank when doing my 'qualifying' shooting for my CPL license; as well as when I go to my outdoor range. (They have a ton of sand banks/berms that they use as bullet catches)

    Rock walls create ricochets, both of metal and stone.
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    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    In my quick search, I couldn't find anything, but during my cpl class, our instructor said sand is one of the worst materials for ricochet. Didn't make sense to me, but he swears it.

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    We live in out in the country (zoned AG-2) and have researched this because we shoot outside on our property.

    Noise ordinances vary by municipality. As for state law, the DNR says:


    Safety Zones Around Buildings
    Safety zones are all areas within 150 yards (450 feet) of an occupied building, house, cabin, or any barn or other building used in a farm operation. No person, including archery and crossbow hunters, may hunt or discharge a firearm, crossbow or bow in a safety zone, or shoot at any wild animal or wild bird within a safety zone, without the written permission of the owner or occupant of such safety zone. The safety zone applies to hunting only. It does not apply to indoor or outdoor shooting ranges, target shooting, law enforcement activities or the discharge of firearms, crossbows or bows for any non-hunting purpose.
    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...1467--,00.html


    The Michigan Legislature says:


    324.40111 Taking animal from in or upon vehicle; transporting or possessing firearm in or upon vehicle; transporting bow in or upon vehicle; written permission to hunt or discharge firearm. Sec. 40111.

    (1) Except as otherwise provided in this part or in a department order authorized under section 40107, a person shall not take an animal from in or upon a vehicle.

    (2) Except as otherwise provided in this part or in a department order authorized under section 40107, a person shall not transport or have in possession a firearm in or upon a vehicle, unless the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and enclosed in a case, carried in the trunk of a vehicle, or unloaded in a motorized boat.

    (3) Except as otherwise provided in this part, a person shall not transport or have in possession a bow in or upon a vehicle, unless the bow is unstrung, enclosed in a case, or carried in the trunk of a vehicle.

    (4) A person shall not hunt or discharge a firearm within 150 yards of an occupied building, dwelling, house, residence, or cabin, or any barn or other building used in connection with a farm operation, without obtaining the written permission of the owner, renter, or occupant of the property.
    The way (4) is written could be interpreted differently from what was most-likely intended to apply only to hunting. It’s the ol’ ‘or’ when they probably mean ‘and’ debate.

    Also, Public Act 269 of 1989 deals in part with the noise issue regarding shooting ranges. These apply to ranges run by sport-shooting clubs, though. Nothing about private shooting ranges, if I recall.



  8. #8
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    malignity wrote:
    I'm going to go with a sand bank. Why? I've gone shooting up and the DNR has come along, and hasn't said a thing. I also used a sand bank when doing my 'qualifying' shooting for my CPL license; as well as when I go to my outdoor range. (They have a ton of sand banks/berms that they use as bullet catches)

    Rock walls create ricochets, both of metal and stone.
    Ithink when they said rock they were trying to be funny. Facetious, you know. At least I hope they were trying to be funny.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    You're the owner of your property so you can shoot from where you want on your property. You could fire from inside your house if you wanted. Just cover your ass and write your self a permission note first.

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    T Vance wrote:
    You're the owner of your property so you can shoot from where you want on your property. You could fire from inside your house if you wanted. Just cover your ass and write your self a permission note first.
    That's not true. If there is a discharge ordinance that applies to the zone in which you live, you would be in violation of the ordinance.

    I can't legally shoot a BB gun in my yard. Which sucks.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  11. #11
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    Here is a link to Blackman Townships "Noise Control Ordinance"

    http://www.ecode360.com/ecode3-back/...0&all=true



    I could not find it ANYWHERE that discharging a firearm is against the ordinance. They are pretty specific with this ordinance as to what would not be allowed. By looks of it, you can shoot all you want!!!:celebrate

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    Venator wrote:
    That's not true. If there is a discharge ordinance that applies to the zone in which you live, you would be in violation of the ordinance.

    I can't legally shoot a BB gun in my yard. Which sucks.
    Where is this ordinance. If you are referring to the one referanced above that states this...

    4) A person shall not huntordischarge a firearm within 150 yards of an occupied building, dwelling, house, residence, or cabin, or any barn or other building used in connection with a farm operation, without obtaining the written permission of the owner, renter, or occupant of the property.

    Then the way I read that is it is OK to discharge a firearm as long as you have permission.

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    Nevermind I see what you are saying "an ordinance where YOU live". My bad...

    But upon looking at Blackman Townships ordinances I could not find one that says that he can't .

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    Checking with both the DNR & local PD, Michigan law says you have to be 450' away from an occupied dwelling other than your own to target practice/hunt. That is 450' in circumference. I found out that hard way a couple of years ago. Received a warning from the local PD.

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    chaneyd wrote:
    Checking with both the DNR & local PD, Michigan law says you have to be 450' away from an occupied dwelling other than your own to target practice/hunt. That is 450' in circumference. I found out that hard way a couple of years ago. Received a warning from the local PD.
    Diameter, not circumference.

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    Incorrect. Diameter. I questioned what they told me when I was shooting south and a neighbor to the north complained. Didn't make sense to me either.

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    T Vance wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    That's not true.* If there is a discharge ordinance that applies to the zone in which you live, you would be in violation of the ordinance.

    I can't legally shoot a BB gun in my yard.* Which sucks.
    Where is this ordinance. If you are referring to the one referanced above that states this...

    4) A person shall not huntor*discharge a firearm within 150 yards of an occupied building, dwelling, house, residence, or cabin, or any barn or other building used in connection with a farm operation, without obtaining the written permission of the owner, renter, or occupant of the property.

    Then the way I read that is it is OK to discharge a firearm as long as you have permission.
    The discharge of a firearm can be locally restricted by cities, townships, counties, and the like. So a city can say that it is illegal to discharge a firearm within city limits, and it is so.

    The DNR regulation, according to the DNR's interpretation - only applies to discharge of a firearm with connection to HUNTING. If you're not hunting, it would seem that a DNR regulation does not apply.

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    chaneyd wrote:
    Incorrect. Diameter. I questioned what they told me when I was shooting south and a neighbor to the north complained. Didn't make sense to me either.
    I don't really care what they told you, and this doesn't really compute for me either.

    The law states that you must be 150 yards (450 feet) away from a building. So, with that building at center, you have to have a circle with a RADIUS of 450 feet around it.

    Given: this isn't going to be a perfect circle unless the building we're talking about is a Silo. :-P

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    OMFG I can't believe I messed that up by saying diameter...

    Yes, Radius.

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    Remember the law can (possible) write you for anything they want. It all falls on the Magistrate/Judge. I see nothing in the Ord. about fire arms. You are on private property. Seems to be a no brainer, just proceed at your own discretion.

  21. #21
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    Do you have a db meter? If not, check with a buddy and see if you can borrow one. One of my other hobbies is home theater and I purchased one in order to calibrate my theater. If you have a buddy who is into speakers, etc he may have one.

    I would start by simply checking to see if you are even violating the noise ordinance to begin with. I read the ordinance that T Vance put up and it appears that the best number to use is the 70db at a distance of 50 feet from the property line. I would measure off the distance from the point at which you are shooting to 50 feet from the border of your neighbor's property and take some measurements with the various guns you are firing. If you're not breaking 70db then it would seem you're good to go if the ordinance is, in fact, legal.

    This whole test is really simple. I can't imagine it taking more than a half hour and that is if you really get anal about distances, etc. Two people should be able to get this done within 10 minutes.

  22. #22
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    If you read the top of the ordinance is says this...

    "§36-49. Purpose.


    This purpose of this article is to regulate noise control within the Township.


    §36-50. Unlawful acts.The provisions of this article are declared to be unlawful and prohibited, but this enumeration shall not be deemed to be exclusive."
    I hate when they use bigger confusing words. What the unlined means in simplier terms is " this list is not limited to the object or objects designated".

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