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Thread: CPL VEHICLE LAWS

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    New CPL License and new pistol owner. Hope my question doesnt hit on a recent subject. New to forum and digging it very much. Good job people. Question: Reading safety regs. that were given to me at time of cpl license, Booklet states that cpl must have firearm on person while in vehicle. Does that mean you cannot have loaded weapon anywhere in vehicle?:


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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    No loaded weapons PERIOD in a vehicle unless you have a CPL (I believe there are exemptions, such as a disabled hunter).

    No loaded rifles/shotguns in a vehicle PERIOD. (aforementioned exemption).

    Only allowed a loaded PISTOL in vehicle, and ONLY with CPL.

    Hence 'Concealed Pistol License' as opposed to a concealed weapons permit.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    What im trying to find out is does weapon need to be on your person while driving with a cpl? Or can it be tucked under seat?

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    It can be anywhere in the vehicle, openly carried or concealed.

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    Thanks Fresh,
    The wording and BS on gun laws drives me crazy. Dont understand all the confusion. Its been awhile since Ive been around guns. Hunted when i was younger, but dont recall all of the BS that im seeing now with gun laws.

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    The text from 9.41.050

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
    Upon first read, it seems the gun must be on you. But then clause (ii) seems to indicate that the gun might be anywhere. But does clause (ii) invalidate clause (i)? If clause (ii) can validate clause (i), why not the other way around, clause (i) invalidating clause (ii)?

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    RCW 77.15.460
    Loaded firearm in vehicle — Unlawful use or possession — Penalty.


    (1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle if:

    (a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in or on a motor vehicle; and

    (b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed.

    (2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if the person negligently shoots a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway.

    (3) Unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle or unlawful use of a loaded firearm is a misdemeanor.

    (4) This section does not apply if the person:

    (a) Is a law enforcement officer who is authorized to carry a firearm and is on duty within the officer's respective jurisdiction;

    (b) Possesses a disabled hunter's permit as provided by RCW 77.32.237 and complies with all rules of the department concerning hunting by persons with disabilities.



    RCW 9.41.050
    Carrying firearms.


    (1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

    (b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

    (3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

    (4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.

    (5) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the firearm.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    THANKS WEENIE,
    I have already read the laws, I just want a straight answer. Im not a lawyer, maybe the wording is a bit confusing to me. Why dont they make the laws a little easier to interpret.

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    deanf wrote:
    The text from 9.41.050

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
    Upon first read, it seems the gun must be on you. But then clause (ii) seems to indicate that the gun might be anywhere. But does clause (ii) invalidate clause (i)? If clause (ii) can validate clause (i), why not the other way around, clause (i) invalidating clause (ii)?
    Please note the word "or" that I have highlighted above. This means that any of the numbered items may satisfy the "and" that prefaces the semicolon. E.g., you may have it loaded and anywhere in the vehicle (even on your lap, on the passenger seat, on the dash, or under your seat) as long as you are within the vehicle also and have a CPL.

    I am not a lawyer.
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    Just a car,
    thanks for the input, and im glad your not a lawyer either. Regards.

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    I just want a straight answer.
    You're not going to get that here.

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    Please note the word "or" that I have highlighted above. This means that any of the numbered items may satisfy the "and" that prefaces the semicolon. E.g., you may have it loaded and anywhere in the vehicle (even on your lap, on the passenger seat, on the dash, or under your seat) as long as you are within the vehicle also and have a CPL.
    Errr . . . hmmm . . .

    Then why would clause (i) be included if it is irrelevant under your reasoning?

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    Deanf, Thats funny stuff man!
    EASY FIREMAN

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    deanf wrote:
    Please note the word "or" that I have highlighted above. This means that any of the numbered items may satisfy the "and" that prefaces the semicolon. E.g., you may have it loaded and anywhere in the vehicle (even on your lap, on the passenger seat, on the dash, or under your seat) as long as you are within the vehicle also and have a CPL.
    Errr . . . hmmm . . .

    Then why would clause (i) be included if it is irrelevant under your reasoning?
    Let me help...

    Because to avoid confusion, the inclusion of (i) makes it crystal clear that you do not have to take it off while your in the vehicle, AND to make clear from the wording of (ii) "The pistol is on the licensee's person" and not on or in the immediate control of someone else in the car with you who does not have a license. Without (i) it may be assumed the (ii) would allow such a scenario within a vehicle, which it does not.

    In summary, it would be read to allow a loaded firearm to be anywhere within the vehicle as long as it is not carried or immediately controlled by a non-licensee.

    Clear?

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    deanf wrote:
    I just want a straight answer.
    You're not going to get that here.

    But you WILL get it here:

    http://www.danddgunleather.com/pages...gun_rights.htm

    The updated, post-Heller edition is now available.

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    Thanks for the information guys, I appreciate it:celebrate

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    In summary, it would be read to allow a loaded firearm to be anywhere within the vehicle as long as it is not carried or immediately controlled by a non-licensee.

    Clear?
    No, because elsewhere in the RCWs, carrying concealed without a permit is prohibited. There would be no reason to prohibit it again.

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    Dave Workman wrote:

    But you WILL get it here:

    http://www.danddgunleather.com/pages...gun_rights.htm

    The updated, post-Heller edition is now available.
    Dang,

    I have the outdated old school "REVISED" 2007 version.



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    I had a couple friends go through an incident about 7 years ago that fits pretty damned good with this thread.

    One had a cpl and one did not. CPL holder was in the back seat and the pistol was in the glove box. Non-cpl holder was driving. He was stopped for a traffic infraction. CPL holder notified that he had a pistol in the glove box, because that is where the registration was at. They impounded the pistol and arrested the non-cpl holder for violating .050, because he was driving and in control of the loaded pistol. In the end the firearm was returned to CPL holder and charges dropped because there was a CPL holder inside the vehicle.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Thats what worries me. Seems like the only safe way to transport is to keep weapon on your own person.

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    monsterbass wrote:
    Thats what worries me. Seems like the only safe way to transport is to keep weapon on your own person.
    If you have a CPL then there is no worry. You are allowed to have a loaded pistol in the car, period.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    I had a couple friends go through an incident about 7 years ago that fits pretty damned good with this thread.

    One had a cpl and one did not. CPL holder was in the back seat and the pistol was in the glove box. Non-cpl holder was driving. He was stopped for a traffic infraction. CPL holder notified that he had a pistol in the glove box, because that is where the registration was at. They impounded the pistol and arrested the non-cpl holder for violating .050, because he was driving and in control of the loaded pistol. In the end the firearm was returned to CPL holder and charges dropped because there was a CPL holder inside the vehicle.
    Hehe... This goes right back to our discussion in that other thread joeroket..... Your friends should have NOT TALKED TO THE POLICE. He would have saved himself a great deal of trouble by just not telling the police there was a gun in the glove box when it was totally legal for it to be there in the first place.

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    arentol wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    I had a couple friends go through an incident about 7 years ago that fits pretty damned good with this thread.

    One had a cpl and one did not. CPL holder was in the back seat and the pistol was in the glove box. Non-cpl holder was driving. He was stopped for a traffic infraction. CPL holder notified that he had a pistol in the glove box, because that is where the registration was at. They impounded the pistol and arrested the non-cpl holder for violating .050, because he was driving and in control of the loaded pistol. In the end the firearm was returned to CPL holder and charges dropped because there was a CPL holder inside the vehicle.
    Hehe... This goes right back to our discussion in that other thread joeroket..... Your friends should have NOT TALKED TO THE POLICE. He would have saved himself a great deal of trouble by just not telling the police there was a gun in the glove box when it was totally legal for it to be there in the first place.
    It was legal for it to be there but it is not smart to open your glove box to retrieve registration when there is a loaded pistol in it without notifying them.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    deanf wrote:
    In summary, it would be read to allow a loaded firearm to be anywhere within the vehicle as long as it is not carried or immediately controlled by a non-licensee.

    Clear?
    No, because elsewhere in the RCWs, carrying concealed without a permit is prohibited. There would be no reason to prohibit it again.
    Who said the pistol was concealed? I said that the non-licensee would not otherwise be allowed to carry or be in immediate control of the pistol while in the vehicle, while at the same time, if the non-licensee then stepped out the the vehicle and strapped it on OC style (loaded or not), they are perfectly legal. That's why its re-stated and re-defined for this special circumstance in the RCW.

    There is no law stating that a loaded firearm within a vehicle is by default considered also concealed, only that the license in this special circumstance is required to conceal it and also to have it loaded, where outside the car, there is no restriction for having it loaded.

    Get it now?

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    joeroket wrote:
    monsterbass wrote:
    Thats what worries me. Seems like the only safe way to transport is to keep weapon on your own person.
    If you have a CPL then there is no worry. You are allowed to have a loaded pistol in the car, period.
    Exactly, except that the license doesn't extend to your passengers possession. I don't think any court would try and push a conviction for a licensee having a gun in the glove box even if the non-licensee was driving the car.

    Its not uncommon at all however for a LEO to arrest first and ask questions later.

    Now, given the scenario of a minivan with the licensee in the drivers seat and a non-licensed passenger sitting in the back row with with the loaded pistol stashed under their seat, or even sitting on the back seat next to the passenger... :?

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