Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 84

Thread: Okay, need some help with a festival.

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Herndon, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    336

    Post imported post

    As part of my day job, I enter local events onto our company website. This includes fairs/festivals/etc. While checking out a website, I noticed they were having a festival in a city park and had "no firearms" in their lists of rules. I remember that last year or the year before, several folks found a similar rule on a website for Celebrate Fairfax (I think) and got it taken down.

    I want to contact the festival folks for this one and do the same, but I can't for the life of me find it in the search function so I can shamelessly use the citations and forms the others used. Anyone remember this or have better search-fu than I do?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    48

    Post imported post

    Is this the one you were looking for? Also, if you type "sitepencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54 celebrate Fairfax" into Google (without the quotes) it will search the VA forum for "Celebrate Fairfax."



    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/11297-1.html

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Herndon, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    336

    Post imported post

    Paragon wrote:
    Is this the one you were looking for? Also, if you type "sitepencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54 celebrate Fairfax" into Google (without the quotes) it will search the VA forum for "Celebrate Fairfax."



    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/11297-1.html
    I thought that was it, but I'm apparently wrong. The thread I (mis?)remember had a couple of good letters complete with citations. I guess I'll just have to compile it myself .

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,620

    Post imported post

    IMHO - the only citation you need is state preemption.

    Simply quoting the statute and requesting that they remove the reference to no firearms should be enough.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    IMHO - the only citation you need is state preemption.

    Simply quoting the statute and requesting that they remove the reference to no firearms should be enough.

    Yata hey
    You might also mention that not only will they certainly lose a court case should it come to that, after July 1st, they may very well be liable for paying the costs of the plaintiffs too!

    TFred


  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    I wote them an e-mail and asked them to remove it from their website.. they never responded to my e-mail but they took it off the website.. What event/website are you talking about?

    Ed
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Herndon, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    336

    Post imported post

    It's the Alexandria Red Cross Waterfront Festival at Oronoco Bay Park:

    http://www.waterfrontfestival.org/info.html

    I sent the contact person an e-mail, pointing out preemption and requesting the rules be removed. I'll see what happens.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    I am gonna write them too..
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    I just wrote the mayor and city council too.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  10. #10
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    I believe this was the thread you were looking for.

    The response from City officals last yr was .

    [line]


    I plan to atttend this yrs festival.

    ETA:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/11966-1.html
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    I just wrote the acting city attorney.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Herndon, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    336

    Post imported post

    Can everyone please hold off on writing the city until we get a response from the event people first?

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Herndon, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    336

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    I believe this was the thread you were looking for.

    ETA:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/11966-1.html
    Thanks, Agent. I'd actually forgotten about that thread. Turns out the thread I was thinking about was on PAFOA, not here. But this one's even better.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682

    Post imported post

    RedKnightt wrote:
    Can everyone please hold off on writing the city until we get a response from the event people first?
    I understand your desire to let the event people (Red Cross) correct the problem on their own.

    The difficulty is that the Red Cross has a national policy against firearms. I'm betting they will not back down, citing the national policy.

    The city has a responsibility to see that folks that get a permit to hold an event in a public park do not violate the law. They have a liability issue, regardless of what the Rec Cross wants.

    It is only fair to allow the city to protect itself from liability that the Red Cross is trying to foist on them via a backdoor route.

    Just like the event in Pennsylvania, the Red Cross could either find private property for their event or accept that their PSH is just that and accept that good folks carrying open or concealed were never a threat. IIRC there was no blood in the park at that event anyway (to the chagrin and disappointment of the Red Cross).

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    Well my letters to the City attorney and town council have opened up a firestorm of e-mail between us.. I will keep you informed. (One guy even remembered me from last year). It might take someone being arrested and having Alexandra learn the "Norfolk Lesson™"

    Ed
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682

    Post imported post

    Look at the next to last paragraph here http://alexandriava.gov/recreation/i...?id=12288#park

    Apparently the city thinks it can give a use permit that excludes all others but the permittee, if it is a commercial or fundraising event.

    Somehow I think that is just not right, but I'll have to ponder it a bit.

    In the meantime, even if the Red Cross has a permit that allows exclusive use of the area for their event, I do not see how the city can allow the violation of state law as part of the permit-issuing process. (That is entirely separate from the Red Cross and their policy regarding handguns, so do not get confused between the two.)

    Let's go ahead and say the Red Cross can deny entrance to anyone who "merely" wants to enjoy the park area covered in their use permit, but does not want to participate in any of the fundraising activities such as looking at exhibits/literature, listening to music/speeches, or anything in any way related to the Red Cross fundraising event. Can they also selectively deny entrance to someone who want to participate in the fundraising event, even at the most minimal level? In other words, could they deny entrance based on race, sex, ethnicity, national origin, orreligion any more than they could based on someone legally OC-ing or CC-ing in the park?

    Could the city allow the Red Cross to deny entrance to any of the other groups mentioned? Would the city want to allow the Red Cross to do that?

    Ed & others trying to deal with the city or the Red Cross - keep up the pressure. Use my thoughts as you see fit to toss them at the city or Red Cross.

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    In a message dated 5/22/2009 5:37:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Ed writes to Mr. Speara and CC's the Alex Cheif of Police:

    Mr. Spera -

    I agree again on most of what you have to say. The city is allowing a private entity to use a piece of public land for a private event. I get that. The city does not however have the authorization to break the law, even for a short time or for a small piece of public property. I just want us both to be clear with each other. If I so choose to attend this event, while armed, and get refused access or detained/arrested or otherwise have my rights violated I wanted to be sure that you were notified by me of the illegal ban. A similar situation in the city of Norfolk has costthe taxpayers there a hefty sum of money.

    Thanks again,

    Ed Levine


    In a message dated 5/22/2009 4:54:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Christopher.Spera@alexandriava.gov writes:
    It is public property that the City is allowing a private operator to use,
    essentially as a lease, for a short period of time. As such, the private
    operator can control terms of access during its period of use - for
    example, certain parks that are normally open to the public will be
    restricted during this same period of use and people will have to pay the
    festival entry fee to go in, even though on non-festival days, access is
    open to the public. Basically, the City has agreed, as it is authorized by
    its charter to do, to let a private operator use public property for a
    short period of time and control access during that time for its event,
    based upon the City's view that allowing such use is beneficial to the City
    and the community as a whole and is otherwise in the public interest.
    Nothing in the State Code section you reference prevents this.

    This is the City's position on this matter; you are certainly free to
    disagree, but both the City and the Red Cross, who is operating the event,
    will proceed based on this position.

    *******************************************

    Christopher P. Spera, Esq.
    Deputy City Attorney
    Office of the City Attorney
    301 King Street, Suite 1300
    Alexandria, Virginia 22314-3211
    (703) 838-4433
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    skidmark wrote:
    I do not see how the city can allow the violation of state law as part of the permit-issuing process.
    Maybe we could rent out a piece of Alexandra to have a one night brothel with gambling and stuff and just say on our website "Please bring Brother tokens and cash" It might violate state law but not on our little piece of Private property that we rented. While we rent it we would also make a no tax paying rule and other cool stuff too.


    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  19. #19
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,845

    Post imported post

    I wonder if Mr. Esquire there is going to be the one handling the payout for whomever gets falsely arrested?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    From: Christopher.Spera@alexandriava.gov
    To: Ed
    CC: david.baker@alexandriava.gov
    Sent: 5/22/2009 6:10:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
    Subj: Re: http://www.waterfrontfestival.org/info.html

    My assumption is that if you try and enter the event in violation of their
    posted rules, you will be refused entry by the event staff. The City
    does not believe that the private operator's refusal to grant you entry
    would be wrongful, but that is what courts are for if you believe your
    rights were violated.

    *******************************************

    Christopher P. Spera, Esq.
    Deputy City Attorney
    Office of the City Attorney
    301 King Street, Suite 1300
    Alexandria, Virginia 22314-3211
    (703) 838-4433
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  21. #21
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,448

    Post imported post

    Dang just the other day I read a nice letter from some 1A organization that quoted a court case saying you CAN NOT limit rights based on leasing public property to a private entity. I think it was on defensivecarry.com somewhere.

    And wow the RC has some killer rules, like they MAKE you wear sunscreen???
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  22. #22
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,448

    Post imported post

    Here's the note I just shot off to the "CONTACT US" email address at the bottom of the screen ( brunsond@usa.redcross.org ):

    --------------------

    Subject: Your rules for attending the Alexandria, VA waterfront festival

    You can not make me wear sunscreen and you especially can not keep me from open or concealed carry of a firearm. This event is being held on city property. The city cannot lease away public rights. There are federal court cases that substantiate this. I suggest you contact whoever you can in the city attorneys office and have them check with the city attorney (Pishko) in Norfolk. Find out what their track record is with Danladi Moore. Multiple payouts and no convictions. Ask them about Chet Syzmecki from Harbor Fest (Fest Events) at Town Point Park.

    Your rules are being aired out on pro gun forums on the internet, and have the attention of pro gun organizations. Expect massive resistance to this illegal rule.

    So let this be my notice to you. I will attend, and I will be armed. I may be arrested but I will be richer for the experience. And since the RC is foisting this prohibition against me, it won't be just the city coffers that get raided in the aftermath.

    My advice to you is to remove this rule immediately before it causes more trouble than it prevents. City attorney Chris Spera does not know what he is talking about.

    Signed,

    xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  23. #23
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Here's the note I just shot off to the "CONTACT US" email address at the bottom of the screen ( brunsond@usa.redcross.org ):

    --------------------

    Subject: Your rules for attending the Alexandria, VA waterfront festival

    You can not make me wear sunscreen and you especially can not keep me from open or concealed carry of a firearm. This event is being held on city property. The city cannot lease away public rights. There are federal court cases that substantiate this. I suggest you contact whoever you can in the city attorneys office and have them check with the city attorney (Pishko) in Norfolk. Find out what their track record is with Danladi Moore. Multiple payouts and no convictions. Ask them about Chet Syzmecki from Harbor Fest (Fest Events) at Town Point Park.

    Your rules are being aired out on pro gun forums on the internet, and have the attention of pro gun organizations. Expect massive resistance to this illegal rule.

    So let this be my notice to you. I will attend, and I will be armed. I may be arrested but I will be richer for the experience. And since the RC is foisting this prohibition against me, it won't be just the city coffers that get raided in the aftermath.

    My advice to you is to remove this rule immediately before it causes more trouble than it prevents. City attorney Chris Spera does not know what he is talking about.

    Signed,

    xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx
    I think I do agree with others that I find "pro Second Amendment" or "pro Self Defense" or something similar, to be much more effective than "pro gun". "Pro gun" is what the crazies call us, and it removes all context from our position.

    I do like the letter, at a very minimum, they are going to have their legal folks all over this, checking out your examples. If they have hired smart legal folks, then they will change their rules.

    I probably wouldn't do it myself, but as an example of "what you would want to say", I've always thought it would be fun to tell them what extravagant item you plan to buy with their money after you win the lawsuit.

    TFred

  24. #24
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,845

    Post imported post

    I like the idea of engraving a high quality firearm with the name(s) of the organization(s) that contributed to the purchase thereof...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    I like the idea of engraving a high quality firearm with the name(s) of the organization(s) that contributed to the purchase thereof...
    Yeah.. that would ruin it for me. I would just tell people about it. But I don't want to purchase a new beautiful Kimber to have it engraved with "Purchased for Ed by the city of Alexandria, VA"

    Edit: Unless they would publically display it in one of their courhouses or museums
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •