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  1. #1
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    I been participating on these forums for a couple months now, and decided to start OCing. I wore my gun around the house a couple of times, and then wore it in public while I ran some errands on Tuesday. I went to several stores and everything went fine. I also went on a walk Thursday night around my neighborhood and everything went fine. OCing didn't seem so bad so far .

    Well, tonight, my family and I went to Target for a few things and just to get out of the house. We where there for some time without any issues. We looked around at movies, toys, electronics, etc. No one said anything, or even seemed to notice. While in the toy section though, four police men, three from one side, one form the other, came around the corner of the isle and told me to put my hands up. I was completely surprised, but complied immediately. I was then told by the same officer to put my hands up again (apparently he wasn't pleased enough with my first attempt). I raised my hands even higher, not knowing what else to do since my hands where already in the air, above my head. The officers then proceeded to handcuff me. After handcuffing me, they took my gun and two extra magazines. Anyway, to make a long story short, after frisking me (and my Dad, I have no idea why :?) they proceeded to run my gun's serial number, as well as my I.D. After that they retrieved store security to see if they wanted to sign a disturbing the peace complaint. Then after telling my to drop the attitude (after answering a question), he then told me some stuff about a bunch of shootings in Sparks. After that he asked another officer to watch me, and went and talked to my Dad. At that point I asked the officer watching me if he could adjust the handcuffs (the one on my right hand was cutting the circulation to my thumb off, part of it is still numb after a couple of hours). The officer did it, he was nice through the whole thing. They then had the managers of Target talk to my Dad. They basically said that they were fine with what ever state law said, but that a couple of customers had complained about the weapon. So, anyway, they eventually took the handcuffs off, and escorted me out of the store. While doing that, one of the officers told me I should get a CCW, but I told him that I was not 21 yet, so I couldn't get one. He then told me it was illegal for me to have the gun according to federal law. I told him that you only had to be 18 to own a handgun and that it was only illegal for me to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer. He then told me he wasn't going to argue about it. When we got to the car, I opened my safe and the officer with my gun put everything in it. After that the officers walked back to the store with us, and then stayed out side the store while we went back to our car. After a while, they drove past our parked car and then left. We left also after my Dad had finished purchasing our stuff, shortly after.

    Well, it's been several hours after the whole experience, part of my thumb is still numb, and I've had quite the experience for my first week of OCing. I've never even gotten a ticket let alone detained .

  2. #2
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    WOW. I hope you got the names of these crooks. You are about to become RICH.

  3. #3
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    Get a lawyer, quick.

  4. #4
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    Get

    A

    Lawyer.



    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  5. #5
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    Wow, sounds like they treated you worse than the time I got stopped by the Sheriff in August.

  6. #6
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    Lord Vader wrote:
    I been participating on these forums for a couple months now, and decided to start OCing. I wore my gun around the house a couple of times, and then wore it in public while I ran some errands on Tuesday. I went to several stores and everything went fine. I also went on a walk Thursday night around my neighborhood and everything went fine. OCing didn't seem so bad so far .

    Well, tonight, my family and I went to Target for a few things and just to get out of the house. We where there for some time without any issues. We looked around at movies, toys, electronics, etc. No one said anything, or even seemed to notice. While in the toy section though, four police men, three from one side, one form the other, came around the corner of the isle and told me to put my hands up. I was completely surprised, but complied immediately. I was then told by the same officer to put my hands up again (apparently he wasn't pleased enough with my first attempt). I raised my hands even higher, not knowing what else to do since my hands where already in the air, above my head. The officers then proceeded to handcuff me. After handcuffing me, they took my gun and two extra magazines. Anyway, to make a long story short, after frisking me (and my Dad, I have no idea why :?) they proceeded to run my gun's serial number, as well as my I.D. After that they retrieved store security to see if they wanted to sign a disturbing the peace complaint. Then after telling my to drop the attitude (after answering a question), he then told me some stuff about a bunch of shootings in Sparks. After that he asked another officer to watch me, and went and talked to my Dad. At that point I asked the officer watching me if he could adjust the handcuffs (the one on my right hand was cutting the circulation to my thumb off, part of it is still numb after a couple of hours). The officer did it, he was nice through the whole thing. They then had the managers of Target talk to my Dad. They basically said that they were fine with what ever state law said, but that a couple of customers had complained about the weapon. So, anyway, they eventually took the handcuffs off, and escorted me out of the store. While doing that, one of the officers told me I should get a CCW, but I told him that I was not 21 yet, so I couldn't get one. He then told me it was illegal for me to have the gun according to federal law. I told him that you only had to be 18 to own a handgun and that it was only illegal for me to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer. He then told me he wasn't going to argue about it. When we got to the car, I opened my safe and the officer with my gun put everything in it. After that the officers walked back to the store with us, and then stayed out side the store while we went back to our car. After a while, they drove past our parked car and then left. We left also after my Dad had finished purchasing our stuff, shortly after.

    Well, it's been several hours after the whole experience, part of my thumb is still numb, and I've had quite the experience for my first week of OCing. I've never even gotten a ticket let alone detained .
    You need to get a civil rights lawyer and sue the police - if your facts are true, there was no cause to detain you let alone cuff you.

    Why did your party return to the store? To reward the store manager who called the police?


  7. #7
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    My Dad went and got the movie for my four year old brother; he had picked it out to watch that night. Although I think Target definitely handled the whole thing wrong, they were actually apologetic to my Dad about it (they never even spoke to me). We should have left right away, but my brother was already shaken up about seeing me get handcuffed by four police officers, so my Dad just ran in and bought the movie while the rest of us waited in the car.

    Do you guys really think I have a case? I just thought I would file a complaint with the Sparks PD and Target.

  8. #8
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    Yes you have a case if what you say is true. Contcat Wrightme, he may be able to give you the info of some lawyers.

    Do a search around this forum to see how this has happened to others in other places and see how they did with a lawyer.



    Read the thread in this section about your 4th amend rights.



  9. #9
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    One of the keys to "getting paid", I've heard, is showing a pattern of abuse. That means you have to be detained again, usually by one of the same officers.

    Before the "tapes are erased" you need to get copies of any 911 calls, copies of police reports, copies of any dashboard footage (I know you weren't in front of the cruisers, but it can sometimes catch officers talking), any police reports that were taken. And if Target provided copies of surveillance footage to them, it should be possible to get a copy through public records, but if not, through a subpoena. A letter to the police department and 911 office citing NRS 239.001-330 should do the trick.

    Make sure to let them know you're prepared to follow through with the max penalties allowed by law if they do not comply. You will consider any non-response or delayed response an attempt at concealing records in violation of NRS 239.310, a Category C Felony.

    Also, regarding the ignorant comment about federal law, being 18, and the cop's not going to argue. IF IT WERE ILLEGAL HE WOULD HAVE ARRESTED YOU. I love when cops try to play that game. Don't let it worry you.

    Print out a copy of the attached and carry it with you. In the situation you describe you wouldn't have been able to hand it over to them, but it'd be worth having. By the way, did they have guns drawn on you when they instructed you to put your hands up? Anyway, I sometimes have trouble following this piece of paper too, because I know I'm innocent, and want to explain and educate. But what I've learned is that if the police detain you for merely carrying a weapon, their blatant disregard for your rights and complete arrogance will render any attempt at education futile. Best just to REMAIN SILENT. Just memorize this:

    I elect to remain silent.
    I want a lawyer before you ask me any questions.
    I do not consent to being searched.
    I do not consent to be detained.
    Am I free to leave?

    If they ask you questions, just keep repeating it. If you are able to hand them the piece of paper instead, don't say a word except to repeat "Am I free to leave?"

    Ignore the mocking you'll likely hear...."Oh, listen to Mr. 18 year old Lawyer." "Only guilty people ask for lawyers." "Fine, we'll just (take you down the station) (do this the hard way) (etc) and get you a lawyer...unless you just want to answer a few questions here." Just ignore them.

    If the detention is in fact deemed unlawful, your repeated "Am I free to leave?" is evidence that this was NOT a consentual stop.

    By the way, if they say "Yes" you're free to leave, immediately walk away. If they still have your gun, insist they give it back to you obviously. If they unloaded it, reload it and reholster it. If what you were doing was illegal in the first place they wouldn't let you leave or give your gun back.

    Good luck.

    Tim

  10. #10
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    Vegassteve wrote:
    Yes you have a case if what you say is true. Contcat Wrightme, he may be able to give you the info of some lawyers.

    Do a search around this forum to see how this has happened to others in other places and see how they did with a lawyer.



    Read the thread in this section about your 4th amend rights.

    I unfortunately do not have info about some lawyers.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  11. #11
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    Lord Vader wrote:
    Although I think Target definitely handled the whole thing wrong, they were actually apologetic to my Dad about it
    This is not about Target - the police seized you for merely carrying a gun - that is actionable - a case like this is going on in Allentown, PA right now.

  12. #12
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    wrightme wrote:
    Vegassteve wrote:
    Yes you have a case if what you say is true. Contcat Wrightme, he may be able to give you the info of some lawyers.

    Do a search around this forum to see how this has happened to others in other places and see how they did with a lawyer.



    Read the thread in this section about your 4th amend rights.

    I unfortunately do not have info about some lawyers.



    Ahh didnt know if any of you guys up north knew any guys that took cases like this.


  13. #13
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    I've contacted a lawyer just to see if there is any case that can be derived from this incident. I doubt I'll be able to do anything though, I don't have the finances to do much. We'll see though. Maybe I can get a lawyer, assuming there is a case, to do it on contingency.

  14. #14
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    Did they point a gun at you?

    Deprivation of civil rights under color of law combined with assault with deadly weapon can carry steep civil penalties. If there was no ADW it's very unlikely you'll have an attorney get interested on a contingency basis.

    Tim

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    What they did to you was just as illegal as if they would have stopped, cuffed and searched a man who was in appropriate and illegal as if they stopped someone for "shopping while black/latino/gay/short/tall/tattooed."

    This infringement on your rights needs to be followed up with a certified/registered letter from an attorney (or if you can not afford one, yourself) to the department's police chief, mayor, city attorney

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    TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > §241
    §241. Conspiracy against rights
    If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.


    TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > §242
    §242. Deprivation of rights under color of law
    Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.



    So what is the process for swearing out a criminal complaint in Nevada?










  17. #17
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    What the Supreme Court says...

    FLORIDA v. J.L.

    ... An anonymous tip that a person is carrying a gun is not, without more, sufficient to justify a police officer’s stop and frisk of that person. An officer, for the protection of himself and others, may conduct a carefully limited search for weapons in the outer clothing of persons engaged in unusual conduct where, inter alia, the officer reasonably concludes in light of his experience that criminal activity may be afoot and that the persons in question may be armed and presently dangerous...
    http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/98-1993.ZS.html

    Obviously a man open-carrying while shopping in it self is not a reason to believe that criminal activity is afoot.

    Here is another case it went to District Court in Georgia, This is a Federal Civil Rights action pursuant to 42 U.S.C. § 1983, asserting causes of action for unreasonable searches and seizures.

    ...Plaintiff contends that the Defendant Kadum Townsend, a Richmond County Sheriff's Deputy, stopped Plaintiff Zachary Nelson Mead (hereinafter "Plaintiff') outside Kroger while Plaintiff was returning to his car from grocery shopping while carrying an exposed hand gun in a holster on his belt...

    ...the Court declares that Deputy Townsend by the seizure of Plaintiff's firearm...violated Plaintiff's Fourth Amendment rights of the United States Constitution...
    http://www.georgiacarry.com/county/r...nt%20Order.pdf


    For them to cuff you and frisk youthen pull your weapon and run the serial numbers is an illegal search and was a violation of your fourth amendment rights.

    Don't walk RUN to an attorney!!!

    As screwy as the ACLU is, I believe they have a lawyer that is friendly to gun rights in your state, contact Gun Owners of Nevada to confirm this.
    http://www.gonv.org/contact.htm

    Just like "Mike" said, forget Target and go after these misguided LE Officers and their Boss, Period.

    Also I may know someone else that might help you, If you needcontact me.

    Anthony Bouchard
    Executive Director
    WyGO / Wyoming Gun Owners Association
    http://wyominggunowners.org/



  18. #18
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    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...highlight=ACLU

    He could probably contact the Nevada ACLU directly. They have publicly posted support for the 2nd Amendment.

    Nevada ACLU Website Statement of 2nd Amendment support
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  19. #19
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    Thank you everyone for your support. I really appreciate the help.

  20. #20
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    Contact the Nevada ACLU and GET A LAWYER, ASAP.

    You're about to become a rich SOB.

    Your 4th amendment rights were gravely infringed. It's all on video too.

    Lawyer up ASAP.

  21. #21
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    No, an attoney will get a decent pay day. The OP is about to get $1.00 unless they settle out of court and agree to pay $$$$



    Always carry a tape recorder (if legal to record in NV)

  22. #22
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    cato wrote:
    No, an attoney will get a decent pay day. The OP is about to get $1.00 unless they settle out of court and agree to pay $$$$



    Always carry a tape recorder (if legal to record in NV)
    It is a questionable item. Statute indicates single party notification. Case law indicates ALL party notification.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  23. #23
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    wrightme wrote:
    cato wrote:
    No, an attoney will get a decent pay day. The OP is about to get $1.00 unless they settle out of court and agree to pay $$$$



    Always carry a tape recorder (if legal to record in NV)
    It is a questionable item. Statute indicates single party notification. Case law indicates ALL party notification.
    huh? Cite to your case law. Besides, you can always video tape and record the police while they perform public duties.

  24. #24
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    Mike wrote:
    wrightme wrote:
    cato wrote:
    No, an attoney will get a decent pay day. The OP is about to get $1.00 unless they settle out of court and agree to pay $$$$



    Always carry a tape recorder (if legal to record in NV)
    It is a questionable item. Statute indicates single party notification. Case law indicates ALL party notification.
    huh? Cite to your case law. Besides, you can always video tape and record the police while they perform public duties.
    NV threads exist speaking to this already. I will search for it. I saw it here.

    As a quick study, here it calls the statute "one party" notification.

    Here is the relevant part of the NRS: "NRS 200"

    Specifically, NRS 200.650 calls it "one party."

    Here is a site with one case law reference indicating "all party consent required"

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Reading the statute I have some thoughts. Maybe this is a bit of a stretch, but maybe not.

    NRS 200.650 Unauthorized, surreptitious intrusion of privacy by listening device prohibited.

    Except as otherwise provided in NRS 179.410 to 179.515, inclusive, and 704.195, a person shall not intrude upon the privacy of other persons by surreptitiously listening to, monitoring or recording, or attempting to listen to, monitor or record, by means of any mechanical, electronic or other listening device, any private conversation engaged in by the other persons, or disclose the existence, content, substance, purport, effect or meaning of any conversation so listened to, monitored or recorded, unless authorized to do so by one of the persons engaging in the conversation.
    (emphasis added)

    The police officer, engaging you in public, has no expectation of privacy. His conversation is subject to being heard by any member of the public. I don't think there would be any exception in his vehicle either, since I believe dashboard cameras also record in-cruiser audio.

    I think this applies mostly to monitoring private conversations, such as phone calls, bugs in offices, bugs in homes, bugs in cars, etc. If you're in public, you should have no expectation of privacy, and so anyone recording in public would not be intruding upon your privacy. How many of us have walked in front of someone with a camcorder? They're not breaking the law if their recording overhears part of your conversation.

    Plus, since everything the police do is a matter of public record (reports, camera footage, audio recordings, etc., with redaction of any victim information), anyone talking to the police should know they're not making "private" statements -- "can and will be used against you" means you should expect to see a video of yourself later in a courtroom if it comes to that.....all the more reason to **** and not say anything to police.

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