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Thread: OC at Monticello

  1. #1
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    Wife and I decided to leave the homestead and travel to Monticello (we really enjoyed the John Adams miniseries) and wanted to see a national treasure located only a few hours away.

    So, I did my research and navigated a route that would not take me on any NPS road and confirmed that Monticello is not a federal park. So, we packed the car up and headed on down. The trip was nice and we even saw some sights in PWC on the way that made us appreciate how lovely Virginia and our county is.

    We arrived and had to stay in a line to get tickets for about 20~ minutes. Afterwhich we waited for about 10 minutes to watch a 15 minute movie on Mr. Jefferson. After that we decided to pick up some food in the Cafe and we dined outside. My wife noticed that a woman who was about to sit next to us on this very long bar-style bench but saw my sidearm and went to the OTHER side of the bench as far as possible from us. We bought thought it was odd but didn't think much of it. We ate our meal and I went inside to throw away our trash.

    As soon as we left the cafe a security guard approached me and asked me if I wouldn't mind speaking with him outside. I nodded approval and walked with him towards the bench area but away from the other visitors.

    He said, "Sir, you do understand that you are on private property?"

    Yes.

    Is there a reason that your armed? Are you afraid for your personal security?

    I simply smirked and said, "I'm sure your good at security but I prefer to take care of myself."

    Well sir. I understand you have a right to open carry - I have a concealed permit myself. Is there anyway you will consent to leaving your firearm in your car?

    No. I don't feel comfortable with that.

    Well, sir. Are you law enforcement?

    No.

    Do you have a concealed permit?

    Yes. (I didn't however show him nor did he request to see it.)

    We'll sir, would you mind concealing for the duration of your visit?

    I wanted to say no and in my mind I had it to say no but I couldn't have dragged my wife out for a 2.5 hour trip with nothing to show for it. So, I concented to covering up by untucking my shirt. I thanked the guard (head of security) and we both went on our way.

    What was funny about this was that I think that the lady thought that the guard would kick me out and was FURIOUS that I simply covered up and was allowed on my way. We ended up being on the VERY same tour group together and having to huddle up in the smallish rooms within Monticello. She would always try to move away from us or she clung to her bf/husband's arm. I hate to say it but it was almost amusing to see such irrational fear at an object.

    Anyways, the guard was VERY professional and knew the laws and how they applied to private property.

    I was simply impressed how many native Virginian's and tourists simply didn't care that I was open carrying at a historic monument. It was just (silly!) too bad that this woman didn't know Mr. Jefferson's stance on firearms.

    Had a great time and loved my time on that beautiful mountain!

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    Xeni wrote:
    She would always try to move away from us or she clung to her bf/husband's arm. I hate to say it but it was almost amusing to see such irrational fear at an object.
    Did you ever take into consideration that this person might have had a traumatic experience involving a weapon. Gun Phobias aka Hoplophobia are real in the minds of the affected. We all deal with one type of fear or aother and learn to control those fears. For those that do not or can not for one rason or another deal with their fears develop a Phobia that controls their life in every shape and form. I know this for a fact because my wife is Agoraphobic and has been for more than 30 years.

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    Dragonfly wrote:
    Did you ever take into consideration that this person might have had a traumatic experience involving a *weapon. Gun Phobias aka Hoplophobia *are real in the minds of the affected. *We all deal with one type of fear or aother and learn to control those fears. For those that do not or can not for one rason or another deal with their fears develop a Phobia that controls their life in every shape and form.* I know this for a fact because my wife is Agoraphobic and has been for more than 30 years.

    What does fear of having panic attacks have to do with an irrational fear of firearms?

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    hunter45 wrote:
    Dragonfly wrote:
    Did you ever take into consideration that this person might have had a traumatic experience involving a weapon. Gun Phobias aka Hoplophobia are real in the minds of the affected. We all deal with one type of fear or aother and learn to control those fears. For those that do not or can not for one rason or another deal with their fears develop a Phobia that controls their life in every shape and form. I know this for a fact because my wife is Agoraphobic and has been for more than 30 years.
    What does fear of having panic attacks have to do with an irrational fear of firearms?
    From Dictionary.com:

    ag·o·ra·pho·bi·a - n.An abnormal fear of open or public places.


    Often the outward symptom of such phobias is panic or anxiety attacks.

    We deal with so many people who are afraid of firearms just because they are firearms. These aren't necessarily true hoplophobics - just people who have been conditioned by society to fear guns. Not at all the same. I bet that had you been wearing a badge, she would not have reacted the same way at all. That would not indicate a true hoplophobic to me.

    Back to the original post, it sounds like the security guard handled the situation very well. I wasn't carrying when I went back in April (it would have absolutely SENT my visiting flaming-liberal relatives). We thoroughly enjoyed our visit, though. We even spoke with a woman whose husband is a direct descendant of the Jefferson family - they had special access to the cemetery, as relations. We discussed genealogy (my other hobby) at length.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Kudos to the security officer for allowing you to conceal rather than forcing the issue.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    It might have been a good idea to ask the tour guide what Mr. Jefferson's stand on guns was. If they knew it would have been very interesting for your lady friend. :^)

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    It might have been a good idea to ask the tour guide what Mr. Jefferson's stand on guns was. If they knew it would have been very interesting for your lady friend. :^)
    +1
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    While I know it usually sucks to have them not want you to open carry I think the security guard handled this great. This is how every situation involving a problem with open carrying should be handled. We need more people like him from the sound of it.

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    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
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    I agree the security guardshould be commended for beingvery professional about the encounter. I do wonder how this kind of situation wouldendif the OCer does not have a CHP. IMO it is nota very good decision to have people see you walk to your car armed and return unarmed, especially in a place where you will be out of sight of your vehicle for a long period of time.

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    It might have been a good idea to ask the tour guide what Mr. Jefferson's stand on guns was. If they knew it would have been very interesting for your lady friend. :^)
    Yeah, that would be pretty screwed up, to get kicked out the former home of a founding father, for exercising a right that Jefferson faught for.. strange.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Xeni wrote:
    "So, I did my research and navigated a route that would not take me on any NPS road and confirmed that Monticello is not a federal park. So, we packed the car up and headed on down. The trip was nice and we even saw some sights in PWC on the way that made us appreciate how lovely Virginia and our county is."

    In the process of confirming that Monticello is not a federal park, did you not discover that it's private property? Jefferson was a very pro private property guy.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    2a4all wrote:
    In the process of confirming that Monticello is not a federal park, did you not discover that it's private property? Jefferson was a very pro private property guy.

    Yes. That's why I didn't debate OC with the security guard. He was within his rights to issue me a refund and ask me to leave the property. He wanted us to stay and just wanted a solution that would be 'fair' to all parties.

    I was happy with the result - I was still able to take the tour AND not get kicked out for just the loss of opportunity to take a picture next to the Jefferson statue while OC. But, I chaulk it up as a win none the less because SOOOO many people saw me OC'ing until I had to cover up. I was very happy.


    From there website: Monticello is owned and operated by the Thomas Jefferson Foundation, Inc., which was founded in 1923. As a private, nonprofit 501(c)3 corporation, the Foundation receives no ongoing federal, state, or local funding in support of its dual mission of preservation and education.

    Edited: Added website information

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    Xeni wrote:
    Wife and I decided to leave the homestead and travel to Monticello (we really enjoyed the John Adams miniseries) and wanted to see a national treasure located only a few hours away.

    So, I did my research and navigated a route that would not take me on any NPS road and confirmed that Monticello is not a federal park. So, we packed the car up and headed on down. The trip was nice and we even saw some sights in PWC on the way that made us appreciate how lovely Virginia and our county is.

    We arrived and had to stay in a line to get tickets for about 20~ minutes. Afterwhich we waited for about 10 minutes to watch a 15 minute movie on Mr. Jefferson. After that we decided to pick up some food in the Cafe and we dined outside. My wife noticed that a woman who was about to sit next to us on this very long bar-style bench but saw my sidearm and went to the OTHER side of the bench as far as possible from us. We bought thought it was odd but didn't think much of it. We ate our meal and I went inside to throw away our trash.

    As soon as we left the cafe a security guard approached me and asked me if I wouldn't mind speaking with him outside. I nodded approval and walked with him towards the bench area but away from the other visitors.

    He said, "Sir, you do understand that you are on private property?"

    Yes.

    Is there a reason that your armed? Are you afraid for your personal security?

    I simply smirked and said, "I'm sure your good at security but I prefer to take care of myself."

    Well sir. I understand you have a right to open carry - I have a concealed permit myself. Is there anyway you will consent to leaving your firearm in your car?

    No. I don't feel comfortable with that.

    Well, sir. Are you law enforcement?

    No.

    Do you have a concealed permit?

    Yes. (I didn't however show him nor did he request to see it.)

    We'll sir, would you mind concealing for the duration of your visit?

    I wanted to say no and in my mind I had it to say no but I couldn't have dragged my wife out for a 2.5 hour trip with nothing to show for it. So, I concented to covering up by untucking my shirt. I thanked the guard (head of security) and we both went on our way.

    What was funny about this was that I think that the lady thought that the guard would kick me out and was FURIOUS that I simply covered up and was allowed on my way. We ended up being on the VERY same tour group together and having to huddle up in the smallish rooms within Monticello. She would always try to move away from us or she clung to her bf/husband's arm. I hate to say it but it was almost amusing to see such irrational fear at an object.

    Anyways, the guard was VERY professional and knew the laws and how they applied to private property.

    I was simply impressed how many native Virginian's and tourists simply didn't care that I was open carrying at a historic monument. It was just (silly!) too bad that this woman didn't know Mr. Jefferson's stance on firearms.

    Had a great time and loved my time on that beautiful mountain!

  14. #14
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Monticello...

    The SG never asked you to leave, he just engaged you in some Q&A. I may have pointed asked him if he was going to kick me out. He was trying to keep the hoplophobe happy; I would have pushed for 'respecting the firearm laws of VA.' Only would have compromised (maybe) if he flat out said OC was not going to happen.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Sounds to me like everything worked out just fine.

    No matter what the woman may think or feel, deep down inside she knows that she spent a good part of her day in close proximity with a handsome middle-aged gun-toting man...and absolutely nothing happened! A seed has been planted deep inside her mind that she can never ignore.

    Hopefully nothing bad will ever happen to her but if it does she will be praying to God for a "man with a gun" to come to her rescue.

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    hunter45 wrote:
    Dragonfly wrote:
    Did you ever take into consideration that this person might have had a traumatic experience involving a weapon. Gun Phobias aka Hoplophobia are real in the minds of the affected. We all deal with one type of fear or aother and learn to control those fears. For those that do not or can not for one rason or another deal with their fears develop a Phobia that controls their life in every shape and form. I know this for a fact because my wife is Agoraphobic and has been for more than 30 years.

    What does fear of having panic attacks have to do with an irrational fear of firearms?
    Dragonfly, I'm not sure how to respond to that, especially without indicating disrespect for your wife, which I don't intend.

    I guess the best way I can describe it is with a particularly irritating tale that happened to me.

    I smoke!
    One day I was in a bicycle shop that I did a lot of business with in the West end. Out of the blue a woman came up to me and in an almost panicked and sort of irritating snobbish manner, said. "I'm allergic to cigarette smoke". Not knowing what to say, I said "I'm sorry to hear that" and went on talking to the owner.

    A few minutes later she came up again and repeated that she was allergic and I reeked of it...again "sorry to hear it" I was getting tired of it by then.

    Another couple of minutes, here she came again. "I have attacks when I smell smoke"...end of what little patience God gave me.

    I said "Well you'd better leave before you keel over because I sure as hell ain't gonna give you CPR until I have a cigarette".

    She left...in a huff. The owner almost split a side laughing but I was just telling it like it is.

    If people with phobias or allergies can't stand the situation, they can leave.

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    Peter nap, I take it you weren't actually smoking at the time, but she just smelled the smoke on your clothing/person?

    As to the scared lady at Monticello, more than likley she is your typical anti gun irrational type, not someone with a real phobia. If she had a real phobia she would have left and waited for the next sceduled tour, whilst getting her xanax out and popping a few to abate her panic feelings.

    I have agoraphobia too, not sure just how it developed at the very beginning, but a series of similar traumatic events occuring over and over cemented it. Simply put I cannot travel further than 30-45 mins away or to placesI am not familiar with that may be even closer than that. Generally I like to stay at home. I am on medications that will help, but they make me drowsy! But if I don't take them I am antsy and can't sleep. Basically I have anxiety all the time now, I don't even feel safe at home because my business is here and game wardens can come by any time they want, and I had bad experiences with some this last year who decided to plain be ********. This mess has me having a low grade cop phobia now! At leastI don't feel violent, in fact I have never felt more level headed and mild mannered in years. But I won't let anyone walk all over me for BS either.I guess I am one of those "paranoid gun owners" LOL!

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    Sheriff wrote:
    I've been trying to tell you guys that Open Carry in the Charlottesville and Albemarle County area is frowned upon. It's just a matter of time before an incident like this becomes a full blown eventwith a false arrest being made. The area is anotherNorfolk, just looking for a place to happen. And it will eventually happen.


    Note to self.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    danbus wrote:
    Sheriff wrote:
    I've been trying to tell you guys that Open Carry in the Charlottesville and Albemarle County area is frowned upon. It's just a matter of time before an incident like this becomes a full blown eventwith a false arrest being made. The area is anotherNorfolk, just looking for a place to happen. And it will eventually happen.


    Note to self.
    Seriously Laughing My @$$ OFF!

    dayum, Dan. THAT's funny right there. Don't forget your BMWAG hat when you go. On second thought, Are you looking for a driver/documentarian? As you know, I'm retired. I'd like to make a trip out to Charlottesville. With any luck, we'll find their local Grand Poobah in charge with his white pointy hat that doesn't like guns married to the local MMM gang leader.

    Anyone know about the quality of the food in the Albamarle (sp?) county jail? How about comforts? Should we bring our laptops so we can contribute to the OCDO forum? I wonder how much they will pay for every day we're illegally incarcerated? Could be educational, as long as we live through the experience. Some of those "mountain people" scare me. When I think about our fellow Virginians in the western counties, I think about banjo music, Ned Beatty and canoes trips.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    C'ville is very metropolitan, a veritable bastion of higher thought and education. Well, that covers the UVA students, faculty and 'stay theres' in Albemarle County. Is it a coincidence that there are several different spellings for Shiflett in the phone directory? Good folk though, salt of the earth. Just talk slowly and don't look 'em in the eyes, and please stay in your locked car outside the city limits. But seriously, Deliverance was about West Virginia. Can't remember where it was filmed...
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    danbus wrote:
    Sheriff wrote:
    I've been trying to tell you guys that Open Carry in the Charlottesville and Albemarle County area is frowned upon. It's just a matter of time before an incident like this becomes a full blown eventwith a false arrest being made. The area is anotherNorfolk, just looking for a place to happen. And it will eventually happen.


    Note to self.
    should we start a defense fund? lol

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    hawgasm wrote:
    danbus wrote:
    Sheriff wrote:
    I've been trying to tell you guys that Open Carry in the Charlottesville and Albemarle County area is frowned upon. It's just a matter of time before an incident like this becomes a full blown eventwith a false arrest being made. The area is anotherNorfolk, just looking for a place to happen. And it will eventually happen.


    Note to self.
    should we start a defense fund? lol

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    C'ville is very metropolitan, a veritable bastion of higher thought and education. Well, that covers the UVA students, faculty and 'stay theres' in Albemarle County. Is it a coincidence that there are several different spellings for Shiflett in the phone directory? Good folk though, salt of the earth. Just talk slowly and don't look 'em in the eyes, and please stay in your locked car outside the city limits. But seriously, Deliverance was about West Virginia. Can't remember where it was filmed...
    Deliverance was about Georgia, not West Virginia. The Shiffletts are a big family. The ones from Elkton to Cville are a little rough around the edges...but the ones from Elkton to West Va are pretty decent people. The ones in Elkton....are just noisey!

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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    Neplusultra wrote:
    It might have been a good idea to ask the tour guide what Mr. Jefferson's stand on guns was. If they knew it would have been very interesting for your lady friend. :^)
    I think the answer to that is here: (Quoting Mr. Jefferson )


    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body, and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."




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    MSC 45ACP wrote:

    Seriously Laughing My @$$ OFF!

    dayum, Dan. THAT's funny right there. Don't forget your BMWAG hat when you go. On second thought, Are you looking for a driver/documentarian? As you know, I'm retired. I'd like to make a trip out to Charlottesville. With any luck, we'll find their local Grand Poobah in charge with his white pointy hat that doesn't like guns married to the local MMM gang leader.

    Anyone know about the quality of the food in the Albamarle (sp?) county jail? How about comforts? Should we bring our laptops so we can contribute to the OCDO forum? I wonder how much they will pay for every day we're illegally incarcerated? Could be educational, as long as we live through the experience. Some of those "mountain people" scare me. When I think about our fellow Virginians in the western counties, I think about banjo music, Ned Beatty and canoes trips.
    That really doesn't sound like Charlottesville at all. Plug 37.22°N 80.418°W into your gps or google maps w/ satelite image turned onand i'm sure you'll find lots of toothless hillbilly's both native and transient running around the local area most fall saturday afternoons.:celebrate:celebrate

    Joe (UVABSARCH97)

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