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Thread: Kitsap countys park rules are inconsistant with and more restrictive than RCW

  1. #1
    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    Check this out

    http://www.kitsapgov.com/parks/parks...les_active.htm

    I have an email into the County Administrator....goes somthing like this.

    Dear Administrator of Kitsap County:

    I would like to bring to thecounty's attention Kitsap County Code:10.12.080 Firearms in parks,
    and its violation of Washington State Law. Currently Kitsap County
    Code 10.12.080 is worded: “It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearm, firecracker, fireworks,
    torpedo or explosive of any kind or to carry any firearm or to shoot or fire any air gun, BB gun, bow and arrow or use any slingshotin any park, except the park director may authorize archery, slinging, fireworks
    and firing of small bore arms at designated times and places suitable for
    their use.” Kitsap County Code 10.12.080 is in clear violation of RCW 9.41.290 [State Preemption]:
    “Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive
    than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are
    preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or
    home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.” This RCW is
    in reference to firearms laws. The whole RCW can be found here
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290
    Kitsap County Code:10.12.080 is inconsistent and more restrictive then RCW
    9.41.300 when it states: “It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearm, firecracker, fireworks,
    torpedo or explosive of any kind or to carry any firearm”. There is no exemption in RCW 9.41.300 that stats a
    city can restrict the right to carry a firearm onto the grounds of a
    public park. Under RCW 9.41.290, Kitsap County Code:10.12.080
    is preempted and repealed. I request that you advise thecounty council and Manager to remove or revise
    the referenced code in order to prevent and preclude the potential for a
    lawsuit from illegal citation and/or arrest in violation of state law.
    Further, I request that you assist thecounty sheriff to
    develop a bulletin for officers that will clear up misconceptions caused by
    the preempted code. These ordnances are posted at every park that I have visited in Kitsap County.
    I look forward to hearing back from you
    about this issue.


    ......btw, TORPEDO????? WTF:?





  2. #2
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    This was addressed for the OC picnic last year. The county Atty was involved as were the Sheriff dept. They know the signs are wrong. I have copies of the decision and how they planned to proceed wth the picnic. All in all it went well, but the signs are stil there. Good luck. If you get them changed, then start on the sign on the door to the Admin bldg. Good luck.

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    I have also contacted them and got a nice letter from the County Prosecutes office saying they know it violates state law, but they're not going to do anything about it and the police aren't going to enforce it.

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    It's been a while since I've been on here. Two weeks ago I contacted Kitsap County Commissioner Josh Brown with the following email:

    "Dear Commissioner Brown,

    This letter is in regards to a sign posted specifically at the Illahee Park enterance, but also at nearly all of the Kitsap County parks I have visited to date. Under the "Prohibited Items" section, the sign states that firearms are prohibited. However, under RCW 9.41.290:

    "The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality."

    I know for certain that the county Sheriffs Department is aware of the legality of lawful bearing of arms on county parks, as last year I took part in an open carry picnic at Long Lake Park in Port Orchard. The Sheriffs Department was peacefully present to answer questions that the public may have had at the time.

    I feel that the signs are misleading the public, encouraging uneducated park visitors to be unnecessarily alarmed, and worst of all depriving citizens of their rights. People hope never to need a seat belt, but they always buckle up when they get into a vehicle. To a vast number of Americans, the same rules apply to bearing arms.

    I look forward to your response and the corrective actions to the signs.

    Sincerely,
    *my name* "

    He replied a week later:

    "This is the first time the issue has been raised to me. I will look into it with our Parks Department. Thanks, Josh"

    I am still awaiting a follow up. I should email him again to check up on this.


  5. #5
    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    Well, hopefully a bombardment of emails and calls will get them to change their minds and abide by state law. BTW I also found other codes in Buckley and Fircrest and sent the same letter to them with the appropriate changes made. I will post responses as soon as I get them.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    I don't know... this has been AjetPilots pet project for a while, and while they acknowledge he is right, they refuse to actually put it in writing.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    zakst1 wrote:
    He replied a week later:

    "This is the first time the issue has been raised to me. I will look into it with our Parks Department. Thanks, Josh"

    I am still awaiting a follow up. I should email him again to check up on this.
    In my opinion, Josh Brown is an elitist jerk. That statement is an outright lie, and I've got a paper trail to prove it. You will never hear from him again.

    Read the following for some background: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/6603.html

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    Ajetpilot wrote:
    zakst1 wrote:
    He replied a week later:

    "This is the first time the issue has been raised to me. I will look into it with our Parks Department. Thanks, Josh"

    I am still awaiting a follow up. I should email him again to check up on this.
    In my opinion, Josh Brown is an elitist jerk. That statement is an outright lie, and I've got a paper trail to prove it. You will never hear from him again.

    Read the following for some background: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/6603.html
    So, what do we do? Do we sue the county? How do you keep the government in line with the law?

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    zakst1 wrote:
    Ajetpilot wrote:
    zakst1 wrote:
    He replied a week later:

    "This is the first time the issue has been raised to me. I will look into it with our Parks Department.* Thanks, Josh"

    I am still awaiting a follow up. I should email him again to check up on this.
    In my opinion, Josh Brown is an elitist jerk.* That statement is an outright lie, and I've got a paper trail to prove it.* You will never hear from him again.

    Read the following for some background: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/6603.html
    So, what do we do?* Do we sue the county?* How do you keep the government in line with the law?*
    That is exactly what has to be done. I have written inquiries to the AG about the enforcement of this and his response was that he is not authorized to enforce the state law onto municipalities unless specifically authorized by law. It takes a citizens interaction and lawsuit if needed to enforce compliance.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  10. #10
    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    If that is what it would take, I would carry open there every day just to evoke a response from the Kitsap sheriff then press the lawsuit. Unfortunately I have neither the time nor the money to take this on. I am also pretty sure my command would tell me to drop the matter as it would look very bad for a Marine to sue a local police agency orgovernment.

  11. #11
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    sempercarry wrote:
    If that is what it would take, I would carry open there every day just to evoke a response from the Kitsap sheriff then press the lawsuit. Unfortunately I have neither the time nor the money to take this on. I am also pretty sure my command would tell me to drop the matter as it would look very bad for a Marine to sue a local police agency orgovernment.
    It would look bad for a member of the military who has taken an oath first and foremost to "Support and Defend the Constitution of the United States..." to become active and hold local government responsible for their unlawful conduct?

    Not sure how the Marines do it, but in the Coast Guard, all legal political activity short of running for office is allowed as long as you are doing so in your own name, and not doing so in the name of your service or using your status in that service to gain special recognition or resources for your personal activities.

    Do the Marines have a different regulations in regards to this? I was under the impression that such activities were governed by the UCMJ of which we are both equally subject to.

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    This is why I hate the government: Rule citizens by its laws, while not following the laws themselves knowing that they can get away with it, because the citizens are either sheep and don't know any better, or the citizens can't afford the time or money to fight the government in order to keep them in line with the law.

    And as a former Marine myself, I understand what you, Sempercarry, are saying about the "command" telling you to drop it. The Marine Corps is a machine and could give two s**t's about your feelings or true liberty if it doesn't coincide with its mission.

    I wish I had the money and the time to fight this. I was at County park today and highly contemplated scratching the "firearms" off of the prohibited items on the sign.

  13. #13
    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    The media would find out who I was and the headline would be "Local Marine sues Kitsap for gun rights violation" While legally I would probably be able to do this, my command does not want the publicity or for me to spend time on somthing other than work....I gauruntee that my SgtMaj. or LtCol. would find out very fast and order me stand down. Like Zakst1 said, they don't care what I think....its all about how it makes the Corps look.

  14. #14
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    sempercarry wrote:
    The media would find out who I was and the headline would be "Local Marine sues Kitsap for gun rights violation" While legally I would probably be able to do this, my command does not want the publicity or for me to spend time on somthing other than work....I gauruntee that my SgtMaj. or LtCol. would find out very fast and order me stand down. Like Zakst1 said, they don't care what I think....its all about how it makes the Corps look.
    Sorry to hear that brother. :?

    I am sure my own command would frown on such publicity, but the action being legal and within my rights, they would do nothing to harm or help.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    You see, they keep the law on the books to scare people into not carrying in parks (or the Admin Building), but they don't enforce it. I OC in several different Kitsap County parks three or four days each week. I even had a cordial discussion on an unrelated topic with a deputy in a park a few months ago, and he never even mentioned my firearm. TriggerDr has conducted business in the county Admin building, and never received a comment about his OC. They control most people with words and signs, but the sheriff has been told by the prosecutor not to enforce the parks code. Local governments can write code in violation of state law, and there is very little people can do to stop them, short of spending a ton of money on a lawsuit.

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