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Thread: Are we just looking for trouble by open carrying?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    We’re accused of this fairly regularly, so I think it is worth discussing in depth.

    The one time I thought I might have to shoot a man, it was probably the worst feeling I’ve ever felt in my entire life, and certainly nothing I'd ever hope for. He saw me open carrying, and he didn’t care, he kept acting like he was going to jump a woman at a Quik Trip gas station. I had a not so secure holster and a messed up leg, so there was no way I would take him on by hand, even if he didn’t appear high or drunk. I had this tremendous sinking feeling, like this jerk was about to turn my life upside down. Luckily he eventually backed off and left. Even knowing I’d be justified if I had to shoot him, and even knowing the whole thing would be on tape, and even knowing that the Phoenix police would probably just tell me good job, I had a terrible feeling in my gut at that point. It is a feeling I always want to avoid, and that is why I open carry, to scare criminals away from me so I don’t have to deal with them.

    I was talking to another open carrier at an open carry litter clean up recently (he can identify himself if he wants to) and he was telling me about how he was concealed carrying, and he came very close to having to kill 3 criminals. He said that even though he didn’t have to even draw, for about 6 hours after the incident he was physically sick. He and I both agreed that the idea that we actually hope for trouble is absurd.

    So, just for the purposes of collecting information to give to people who say we’re looking for trouble, what has gone through your mind before or after you almost had to, or did have to shoot someone? Or, if you’ve never been in that type of position, or even if you have, how do you feel about the prospect of being in a future life and death self defense situation?

    If anyone can site studies about this subject, they’d be a good reference point as well. I googled it, but I couldn't find anything.

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    I couldn't agree with you more. I CC'd quite a while ago and was forced into a situation where I nearly had to shoot the driver of a car that came up on the sidewalk at my sister and I. I actually drew the pistol and aimed where I figured the driver's face was and was in the process of taking up trigger-slack when the driver veered off and lit out of there like his tail-end was on fire.
    After the incident I was sick to my stomach, almost to the point of vomiting. I don't want to have to shoot anyone, but at the same time I can cite other incidents where a combination of my presence and my highly visible sidearm have thwarted a few miscreants!! I OC mainly for my protection, but I do it as well because I like to educate people about the legality of it as well as letting the general public know that those of us who OC aren't the type to shoot up the nearest Golden Arches or K-Mart we come to. We're not gonna rob the local Convenience Store or beat some little old lady over the head rather than help her across the street!
    The general opinion of OC'ers is quite neutral, but I'm trying to show others that we're quite harmless and we're actually rather friendly when you get to know us. But I'm just one person, I wish I could do more!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

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    That's interesting my experience was quite different when these two guys rolled up and were threatening my friends and I. My open carried 1911 scared them off eventually but for a time I was ready to fire on both and I found it to be the most calming experience of my life and afterwards I just felt very relaxed (I'm not saying this to sound cool or anything and I don't fully understand it that's just what happens to me during stressful situations I guess).

    I don't look for trouble and that's one of the reason I prefer OC as it's more of a deterrent to criminals where CC you wait until they commit the crime so you can kill them. All that stuff about CC being better for the element of surprise and tactical advantage is bull@#&%. My element of surprise is when the BG scopes the place and sees a full size pistol on my belt and is so surprised he leaves. My tactical advantage is having a quick smooth draw unhindered by clothing.

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    Very true FunkTrooper, I tend to think that OC is more Pro-active rather than Re-active like CC!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    I agree. When it came time to draw my sidearm in my situation, it was as though nothing else existed. The draw and target/sight acquisition (as far as I can remember) where effortless. The whole situation, at that moment, was calm, cool, efficient and very well in-view of the driver. He knew what could have happened and for his sake, he's lucky he didn't try to push the envelope any further than he did. At the specific moment, I remember things being very serene-like and very methodical. It didn't happen until later, when I got the shakes and got an extremely upset stomach!
    I too am glad I didn't have to discharge my firearm during the event in possibly taking someone's life. I know it was a couple of teenage kids. I was about 25 at the time and while I may have had about 8-10 years on them, it still wouldn't have been the easiest thing in the world to live with!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    SFCRetired wrote:
    The very worst was a thirteen-year-old boy that posed a serious threat to my life. I don't think I'd have ever forgiven myself if I'd had to shoot him.
    I know you would probably have PTSD, as would anyone else in that situation with a conscience, but why would it morally bother you if you had to kill someone who threatened your life? I don't care if it's a 10 year old being a violent felon, a dangerous felon is a dangerous felon.

    That situation would bother me probably for the rest of my life, but it's not something I would hesitate on, nor would I regret it morally. That is how I see any self defense situation. Better I keep my life than let any bad person take it.

    On a similar and highly related note, I've also come to believe that if my being there doesn't scare off burglars who aren't threatening me physically, I'll probably just leave, call the cops, wait a few hours for them to show up, then when they do, have them write me out a report to give to my insurance company so I can go get my check. I think that there are 2 kinds of interactions with criminals. Life threatening situations where it's time to open fire, and non life threatening situations where you should merely leave. Property is replaceable, lives aren't.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    I just spent the past three days in Tombstone ( Wyatt Earp Days). Sixguns, derringers, pocket guns, lever guns, rabbit ear shotguns, rolling blocks... all over the place... and BIG knives of every description on men 'n women both. That three days made Tombstone prob'ly the SAFEST, most polite town in Arizona... 9 crowdedbars with bikers in their colors'n all. Not even the slightest altercation...



    'Been doin' this for the past 4 years (every event)... and it's the same. 'Only time anything nasty happens is when the guns ain't on the streets. Go figure!


    BTW... I've had to shoot people... (they needed shootin'). There's no PTSD... no more than for havin' to shoot a rabid animal... It needs doin'... so you do it. You'll know when it needs doin'... seriously.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    BTW... I've had to shoot people... (they needed shootin'). There's no PTSD... no more than for havin' to shoot a rabid animal... It needs doin'... so you do it. You'll know when it needs doin'... seriously.
    It definitely varies from person to person. I've known a lot of veterans that have/had nightmares for the rest of their lives. WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and now the sandbox. People I've known from various places, including my family, wake up in the middle of the night thinking they're back in the war, fighting to live. But my grandpa on the other hand, his attitude is a lot like yours. He killed minimally dozens of Japanese soldiers in the Philippines from far away with heavy artillery, and it's never bothered him much, because he knew what they'd do to him if they could.

    But the point is, I don't think it matters what someones attitude is, even Dirty Harry, if he was real, probably wouldn't want to have to kill anyone, and that I feel is very important for people to understand. Those who carry guns do so because they want to be able to defend themselves, not because they hope they will have the chance to.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Michigander wrote:
    Property is replaceable, lives aren't.
    Depends on the property. A truck is replaceable sure, but what about a 1948 Ford pickup that was handed down from your granddad that is the only thing you have to remember him?

    I've never been in a life-death situation (or at least I didn't know if there were life-death). Thank God for that. The closest I can recall is about a year ago when me and my wife were walking home. My mom had a stray dog that decided to live at her house. It was a good dog, but something set it off when me and my wife were walking up. It knew us, we'd been there for about a month. It suddenly became very aggressive and started heading towards me and my wife. Without even thinking I was in front of my wife, pistol in hand. Then as quickly as it began the dog stopped barking, calmed down, and walked off.

    I know a dog does not compare to a human life but I had no qualms with my conduct after wards. Looking back it seems surreal. I'm normally not very confrontational but something set me off, probably my perception of my wife being in danger.

    Like I said, I've never been in a situation so I can only speculate. Knowing how I usually handle situations I doubt I'd lose much sleep over the death of a scumbag. Scum die all the time, I don't cry when a cop does the job. Why should I cry because I was forced into doing it? If I did nothing wrong then why should I feel bad?

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    I have recently had a situation where while on a search of an abandoned bldg, my partner and I came across two males, one who had an baseball bat, held in a threatening manner. I drew on the subject and ordered him to put the bat down and take 4 steps back, hands wide open and up, and told his compatriot the same. It turned out that the 2 men were jsut there to "tag"(spray paint) and take some photos. Afterwards, I did not feel sick or overly nervous, or was shaking much. In my experiance, I believe those who are put in situations more often get more accepting of the idea of drawing on another human being. Ever since I was old enough to comprehend, I was taught to use force as a last resort, but in the end YOU must come back home at the end of the day. So with that said, those of us who put themselves in harms way on a day to day basis, tend to accept the fact that atany given time you might have to draw and fire on a person, be it a man or woman. But with proper training you can keep it from becoming a fatality with well placed marksmenship, or just a good bluff and a measured show of force.

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    You know, I gotta laugh when I read posts of others who are opposed to OC when they're a member of a site here that promotes Open Carry. I personally don't have a problem with Open Carry just like I don't have a problem with Concealed Carry either. I don't have a problem with anyone who lawfully and legally carries a gun for protection.
    I think it's awesome to see others who carry. I love when others do so and I welcome questions from anyone (from both sides of the fence) about why I carry and what inspired me to do so in the first place!! There are those who will occasionally come up to me and ask me why I need it, who oppose it but that's their prerogative and I don't try to force my opinion and mindset on them. I just figure that if I can answer their questions to the best of my ability, then I have accomplished my goal. If an individual wants more information on the subject and is a potential supporter of OC/CC, then great, yet another goal accomplished.
    Again, I'm not going to force my opinion on anyone. I just figure if they're gonna ask me about why I do it and actually listen, then I'll tell them how I feel. If it's someone who's criticizing me, asking why I do it and still arguing with me, then I'll more than likely bid them good-day and walk away. I won't stoop to their level and argue with them, I just figure it's difficult to tell who the idiot is when arguing with someone!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    SFCRetired wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    /snip/
    I know you would probably have PTSD, as would anyone else in that situation with a conscience, but why would it morally bother you if you had to kill someone who threatened your life? I don't care if it's a 10 year old being a violent felon, a dangerous felon is a dangerous felon.
    /snip/
    It would morally bother me because, even though he was as dangerous as any adult (he had stolen his father's pistol to come after me), he was still very much a child.

    Killing a child, no matter how justified, would haunt me to the end of my days and it would be much more devastating than were I forced to take the life of an adult.

    There again, we have that difference in individuals. Some of you could pull the trigger on a thirteen-year-old and eventually get over it. I know I couldn't.

    That is not to condemn any of you; it is just to point out the differences. Keep in mind that "different" does not mean "bad" or "good"; it just means "different".

    To add more to the discussion: My Dad was a WWI veteran and, through him, I got to know quite a few vets from the First World War. Almost every one of them that actually served on the front lines admitted to still having flashbacks.

    I talked to the last ones at Dad's funeral in 1975 and several of those told me that they still experienced occasional nightmares and flashbacks.

    I wonder if those who are in combat are more traumatized than those who are in a self-defense scenario?





    WW1 trench warfare with it's direct frontal assaults was a god-awful (now mostly ignored... not studied) wholesale slaughter experience on a massive scale. "Battle of the Somme is famousfor the loss of 58,000 British troops (one third of them killed) on the first day of the battle, 1 July 1916." I recall reading the French lost 45,000 in 15 minutes... 'forgot where. Then, there was the gas 'n the piles of unburied corpses... and the rats that fed on them. That'd make anybody nuts.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    SFCRetired wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    /snip/
    I know you would probably have PTSD, as would anyone else in that situation with a conscience, but why would it morally bother you if you had to kill someone who threatened your life? I don't care if it's a 10 year old being a violent felon, a dangerous felon is a dangerous felon.
    /snip/
    It would morally bother me because, even though he was as dangerous as any adult (he had stolen his father's pistol to come after me), he was still very much a child.

    Killing a child, no matter how justified, would haunt me to the end of my days and it would be much more devastating than were I forced to take the life of an adult.

    There again, we have that difference in individuals. Some of you could pull the trigger on a thirteen-year-old and eventually get over it. I know I couldn't.

    That is not to condemn any of you; it is just to point out the differences. Keep in mind that "different" does not mean "bad" or "good"; it just means "different".

    To add more to the discussion: My Dad was a WWI veteran and, through him, I got to know quite a few vets from the First World War. Almost every one of them that actually served on the front lines admitted to still having flashbacks.

    I talked to the last ones at Dad's funeral in 1975 and several of those told me that they still experienced occasional nightmares and flashbacks.

    I wonder if those who are in combat are more traumatized than those who are in a self-defense scenario?





    WW1 trench warfare with it's direct frontal assaults was a god-awful (now mostly ignored... not studied) wholesale slaughter experience on a massive scale. "Battle of the Somme is famousfor the loss of 58,000 British troops (one third of them killed) on the first day of the battle, 1 July 1916." I recall reading the French lost 45,000 in 15 minutes... 'forgot where. Then, there was the gas 'n the piles of unburied corpses... and the rats that fed on them. That'd make anybody nuts.
    The madness about WWI was British and French Officers marching their troops across no-mans land into the massive firepower of German heavy machine guns.

    German military hand picked men who were orphaned or came from broken families for a three man MG team; young men who would show no emotion over killing hundreds of enemy soldiers with a Maxim heavy machine gun.

    WWI was shear madness!

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    I have just been a member for a short time. I have just recieved my CCW. Oh no bad words here LOL, I am on the fence so to speak,, In this forum its great to open carry, I like to get with people who like guns,, So I joined the others here, I would like to be able to open carry when I want, And also be able to CCW, when its better suited, Some make an argument that open carry, You will be the first one out of the fight. As the CCW, BG's won't know your armed? Like I said new here, Just a few thoughts, I also like the :"Why ask Why?,,

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    This is my personal opinion only from what I have seen on and off duty.
    This country is full with soccer mom's and they see a weapon and they fear guns and in some states a CCW person will not get hassled by P.D. when a
    Person showing can get reported and will have the P.D . Come out to check them out if called by a soccer mom. Which happens more then you think.
    I personally carry concealed cocked and locked. I feel it is the State in which you live in matters more. In AZ. Open carry is legal yet people do get profiled.
    S/F Vic

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    reconvic wrote:
    This is my personal opinion only from what I have seen on and off duty.
    This country is full with soccer mom's and they see a weapon and they fear guns and in some states a CCW person will not get hassled by P.D. when a
    Person showing can get reported and will have the P.D . Come out to check them out if called by a soccer mom. Which happens more then you think.
    I personally carry concealed cocked and locked. I feel it is the State in which you live in matters more. In AZ. Open carry is legal yet people do get profiled.
    S/F Vic
    No... Open Carry is 'Recognized' in AZ as a right. Rights can only be denied... not 'legalized'. I dunno who in AZ ever got profiled... None that I've heard of, unless you look like a pachuko gang banger.

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    reconvic wrote:
    This is my personal opinion only from what I have seen on and off duty.
    This country is full with soccer mom's and they see a weapon and they fear guns and in some states a CCW person will not get hassled by P.D. when a
    Person showing can get reported and will have the P.D . Come out to check them out if called by a soccer mom. Which happens more then you think.
    I personally carry concealed cocked and locked. I feel it is the State in which you live in matters more. In AZ. Open carry is legal yet people do get profiled.
    S/F Vic
    That'sone of the reasons that I open carry, is to educate people and get them acclimated to the fact that it's not just cops and bad guys that have guns. I usually carry a dark gun in a dark holster against dark clothing, so the gun is usually not the first thing that people notice when they see me.

    I usually greet people with a smile and small talk, and it's usually after they're disarmed (so to speak) that they notice that I'm carrying a gun, at which point they're more curious than concerned.

    I understand that people are profiled all the time, and if they're carrying a gun openly that factors greatly into the profiler's judgment of them, but if nothing else about the open carrier is threatening then no further action is taken.

    I have friends who are into body modifications who would like to open carry but are afraid to because they know that they will be judged unfairly on their appearance. They are very aware that their physical appearance is intimidating to some, and they don't want to compound the negativity by carrying openly.

    I carry openly now to help these people in the future, when open carry WILL be more accepted.

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    Trust me I am not a P.D. but shoot and have many friends that are and yes it is legal but many people do get stopped because the local P.D. has to respond to calls. I also live in AZ. for many a years. As you and I said people that get profiled are mostly people that are young and may dress like a "gangbanger"
    S/F Vic

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    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    reconvic wrote:
    This is my personal opinion only from what I have seen on and off duty.
    This country is full with soccer mom's and they see a weapon and they fear guns and in some states a CCW person will not get hassled by P.D. when a
    Person showing can get reported and will have the P.D . Come out to check them out if called by a soccer mom. Which happens more then you think.
    I personally carry concealed cocked and locked. I feel it is the State in which you live in matters more. In AZ. Open carry is legal yet people do get profiled.
    S/F Vic
    That's*one of the reasons that I open carry, is to educate people and get them acclimated to the fact that it's not just cops and bad guys that have guns.* I usually carry a dark gun in a dark holster against dark clothing, so the gun is usually not the first thing that people notice when they see me.*

    I usually greet people with a smile and small talk, and it's usually after they're disarmed (so to speak) that they notice that I'm carrying a gun, at which point they're more curious than concerned.*

    I understand that people are profiled all the time, and if they're carrying a gun openly that factors greatly into the profiler's judgment of them, but if nothing else about the open carrier is threatening then no further action is taken.

    I have friends who are into body modifications who would like to open carry but are afraid to because they know that they will be judged unfairly on their appearance.* They are very aware that their physical appearance is intimidating to some, and they don't want to compound the negativity by carrying openly.*

    I carry openly now to help these people in the future, when open carry WILL be more accepted.

    I would rather open carry then conceal, I like your points very much.
    Yet we will be fighting the anti gun people for many a year I fear.
    Just my 2 cents
    S/F Vic

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    I think OC is great. It is a shame I have to go to another state to excersize such a basic right.

    Was OCing with a friend just over the line in PA yesterday, to show him that people generally won't notice or care. NowI WAS wearing black pants, a black t-shirt ( with a jaguar or leopard on the front and back), and black gun in black holster and was sort of sheilding my strong side with my dangling arm. BUT when I went to pay at the counter, anyone there could have seen what I was wearing on my waist was a gun. My friend did ask about the "why?" of open carry, so I told him that it is educational and lets people see gun owners are mostly all just regular people and not dangerous. He noted the obvious than many people probably mistake OCers as some sort of plain clothes cops, and I think this may be totally true. If you are dressed in a non sloppy manner, and your hair isn't all greasy, you don't stink like a bear, and you walk normally and carry yourself as a responsible person, the public are not as likley to even begin to get the heebeejeebies if they see you have a gun on your hip. Now if you look like a homeless slob, haven't bathed all week, and walk all creeping and nervous, yeah folks are going to notice and may get alarmed.

    My friend and I both agreed that open carry to just show off and to look like an ******* is attention whoring and is a negative thing to do, but fancy holsters and custom guns by themselves do make one an attention *****. Stupid ******* behavior is what makes an attention *****.

    As to people with tats and peircings or who dress in biker attire and whatnot- again, how do you carry yourself? Behavior is the most important aspect here. I've been to OC gatherings with people who have a bunch of tats and/or have that biker look, and no one cared enough to be a sheeple and call the police on them. I saw 2 really nice tats at one lunch- a very well done Glock and a beautiful AK.

    The issue of criminals and the CC vs OC debate: I think OC is better. No one has been able to find any verifiable report of anynon LEOOCer being "targeted first" or having a gun grab attempt occur. Most criminals are stupid and are cowards, and even many of the "crazy" ones will know to back off if they see the gun on the hip. More and more I read of OCers here and at PAFOA saying that some suspicious acting person or persons were hanging around, then spotted the OCer and decided that hanging out elseware might be a fine idea. I'd rather keep some criminal jerk away from me outright, then to allow them into my comfort zone starting their criminal activity and then having to draw on them and possibly have to shoot them. I choose simple deterance over an incident and PTSD and the legal crap going on for months.

    I know darn well if I was on a walking trail in an isolated part of the trail system, by myself, and notice the only other person around is some creepy man seemingly stalking up on me ( his eye contact and other body language clues that send the alarm bells off), that I'd rather I show him my strong side and look right back into his eyes ( with my wonderful" you die! look"), have him do the sudden screeching stop, give the "oh ****" look and decide to turn and walk away from me, then to have him get into my comfort zone and start running at me, and to try to quick draw on him from concealed carryand yell STOP, and maybe have to shoot him. I'm not much for 911 calls, police reports, lawyers, meetings with DA's, possible law suits by dead perps relatives ( PA and MD both do not have civil immunity), having to take a higher dose of sertraline and generic xanax daily, and etc. Hell I just want to be ******* left alone.

    Now in the case of the above scenereo with OC, I would be responsible enough to contact the local LEOs to report that a strange acting man who may be a rapist or worst was on the trail, butI scared him off. I'd hate to scare someone like that off, only to have him later attack another woman. And yes the area of PA I am using for this scene has LEO's that would actually listen to such a report and perhaps a park ranger would do some active patrolling of that section of trail. Best would be if half the trail users just OC'd, but you know how the general public is.

  23. #23
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    40s-and-wfan wrote:
    You know, I gotta laugh when I read posts of others who are opposed to OC when they're a member of a site here that promotes Open Carry. I personally don't have a problem with Open Carry just like I don't have a problem with Concealed Carry either. I don't have a problem with anyone who lawfully and legally carries a gun for protection.
    Actually, I like having both the opposition and the neutral on any subject on the site. If the only reading here was each of us simply scratching one another's backs, then it would get awefully boring after a while.

    The difference of opinion promotes reasoned debate, and unlike the vast majority of folks positions on topics like abortion and same-sex marriage, I think there is room for minds to be changed on gun control.

  24. #24
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    OK folks let's not head off down the abortion and SS Marriage roads. Plenty of other forums for those topics.

    Concerning the original title of this thread "Are we just looking for trouble by OC?"

    Now the CC'ers normally claim the "element of surprise" affect of CC. OC'ers argue the "deterant" factor. Now, I've been ging this some thought lately and it seems to me that there may be some grounds for argument that the CC'ers are the ones looking for trouble. (I'm not saying that they are, but......)

    Concider this. If OC really IS a deterant to a possible assault, and CC is the re-actionary "surprise"against an assault that has already been initiated, doesn't that sound like entrapment? WE know that 60% of criminals are less likely to attack a person that is obviously armed, so OC should prevent an assault from taken place at all. But if you are CC'ing the criminal doesn't know if you are armed or not, until after he's initiated his attack, it's almost like baiting the criminal to carry out an assault so you can surprise them.40% of criminals said they were less likely to attack if they thinka targetmight be armed.

    So who's really looking for trouble, OC or CC?

  25. #25
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Now the CC'ers normally claim the "element of surprise" affect of CC. OC'ers argue the "deterant" factor.
    'Element of 'Surprise' is an assault tactic... not a defensive one. Down side... the perp's already got a weapon in hand or is closing. Where's the surprise? You must then react to that. Often as not... something has to be unbuttoned, pulled back/up/off etc. Whatever... 'reacting' is no surprise. I s'pose people play out all sorts of imaginary situations and scenarios in their head. Some have visions of grandious derring-do(Handcuffs, flashlights, 'n whatever else they can festoon themselves with. Having been a cop...I just shake my head in dismay/disgust. The people who usually do that are noobs... 'n carrying a firearm openly is a novelty. 'Reminds me of some novice hikers 'n campers with all the junk they hang on themselves.

    Not so w/OC. It's 'there'. It's obvious... it's readily accessable. Simply knowing that is a deterrent to the above behavior on the part of the perp. Nothing is 100% Nothing ever will be. CCW instructors push CCW because it's in their financial interests to do so. I have an AZ CWP... for those rare times it should be covered (rain... 'some social functions requiring a coat). It's also easier to buy any other firearm. No 4473's to futz with.

    Some people harbor a 'Secret Sam' personna. (Then they'll want'a get a badge that proclaims they're a Concealed Carrier.) 'Never have figured that one out. Some sort of vicarious 'authority' complex. Some are socially antsy about what 'people will say'. They feel it draws attention to themselves. Realistically... some people look like a putz carryin' a gun openly. (But then... they'll still look like a putz no matter what.) Sadly... many Americans have gotten fat 'n sloppy... and they dress that way. Others don't want any hassles from the law. THAT is the only reasonable reason to CC... other than OC is 'forbidden'.



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