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Thread: Asked to leave resturant while oc

  1. #1
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    First let me say hi to all. I've had this site bookmarked and have read it daily for some time(over two years I think), which is about how long I've been ocing(I've had my cch only awhile longer). I know that's a long time to never have even said so much as "HI" but posting something on the internet just never caught on with me. This happened on May 1, 2009 and I've had quite some time to think on it.On to my "OC ENCOUNTER": My daughter(age22) and I are huge trek fans, so catching the new movie on opening day in IMAX was a given for us. With tickets already purchased online we went to lynnhaven mall almost an hour early to get them in hand. We decided to stop in the food court(inside) to grab something to eat as we waited for the show. I was dressed in proper retired military uniform(tshirt, jeans, retired Navy hat) with my owb taurus(PT140). We went upstairs to the food court and picked one of the first places we came to(I suck, but I don't know the name) which is a old time diner type place(50's feel). Hostess comes and takes us to the first booth by the door(me with my back to the entrance strong side out). Waitress comes up and starts taking our order, jokes that our food will be good because I'm packing My daughter and I sat and joked while we waited for our food. After a few minutes, a woman walks up and informs us she's the manager and that she was called and told by mall security that I must leave because mall security says guns are not allowed on mall property. It was a wierd conversation, because she kept pointing out that she had no problem with it, but that if I didn't leave security would come and "escort" me off the premises. I said why don't they come tell me themselves. She said she understood that I might have a "licence" and all but her hands were tied. She let it slip that people "come in all the time" with guns and it's not a problem. I could actually see the "oh ####" look on her face when she said that(I'm a BMWAG). The final insult came we she said that as soon as our food was ready she would "allow" me to pay for it and take it with me. Needless to say that was not gonna happen. I said we are leaving even though she kept trying to get me to understand she had no control over the situation. As we were walking out of the mall(door across from theatre), in the little square outside a groungs keeper had there walky talky turned up(really loud) you could here "security" talking. They were giving the description of a "security risk" from inside the mall:black male, bout 5'8, tshirt, dark ball cap, lighting a cig:shock: I look out in the parking lot and see the white truck with yellow light on top and "security" looking right at me talking on the radio(not knowing I could hear everything he is saying). He was saying that if "that guy" doesn't keep walking, he was gonna come and "escort" me off the property. I was, but my daughter was beginning to freak because she knows her dad will dig a hole with a backhoe and she wanted to see the movie with me.
    We got in my car a drove to wendys on the outer circle and my daughter told me when we were in the resturant, a man in a "security" uniform had paced back and forth outside the place and stared but she had given it no thought(I never saw him). When we finished our food I drove back and "security" was parked in the same place. I get out and walk back to the theatre(still oc'ing) and walked right in with the folks in the movie not so much as a second look. I suck at writing, hope I got all my "i's" dotted.

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    "Then reach for your hip, giving the illusion that you have a gun, even though we both know you don't"

    Paul Blart...:P

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Welcome to the site, freebird60. Thanks for sharing your experience.

    By the way, remember that all are welcome at our Hampton Roads open carry dinners! (hint, hint)

    By the way (part 2), I thought Star Trek was great.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I'm in VB right now and saw a movie at that IMAX theater last night. No where did I see anything in the mall indicating "no guns". All I saw were the silly "no profanity" signs.
    James Reynolds

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    DrMark wrote:
    Welcome to the site, freebird60. Thanks for sharing your experience.

    By the way, remember that all are welcome at our Hampton Roads open carry dinners! (hint, hint)

    By the way (part 2), I thought Star Trek was great.
    I plan on going to the dinner on the 30 in VB. Star Trek ROCKED!

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    Thank you for your efforts freebird. Despite the occasional semi-negative encounter those of us that carry are promoting a positive image and helping further the cause.

    I am looking forward to seeing you at the next OC dinner and sharing some fine fellowship.

  7. #7
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Well seems that their security is a bunch of fraidy cats (can't use the other word I am thinking).

    Still, you were given effective notice so you could have been charged with trespassing.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    freebird60 wrote:
    I said why don't they come tell me themselves.
    Similar to my experience at Patrick Henry mall a number of years ago. I saw the security surrounding me but afraid to approach so I approached one of them when I finished my meal. Heck, I was leaving anyway.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    freebird60 First new item on your list of things to buy - a good digital voice recorder.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    freebird60 First new item on your list of things to buy - a good digital voice recorder.

    Yata hey
    any recommendations on a good one?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    hawgasm wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    freebird60 First new item on your list of things to buy - a good digital voice recorder.

    Yata hey
    any recommendations on a good one?
    A number of us carry Olympus models - important things are ease of operation, small size and ability to download direct to your PC.

    I scored a factory refurbished, higher end model for less than 1/2 price w/full warrantee.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Well seems that their security is a bunch of fraidy cats (can't use the other word I am thinking).

    Still, you were given effective notice so you could have been charged with trespassing.
    That's what I meant about weird, I was ready to leave as soon as the manager first told me to leave but she kept talking saying her hands were tied and that she didn't have a problem with it. I know that you must leave when asked by the business owner or risk a trespassing charge. I'm thinking it was more a certain security guards personal opinion as I've been to lynnhaven several times before while oc.

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I think you did good by leaving and not escalating the situation. In my experience security gaurds are not the brightest and can make a situation worse very quickly.

    And Star Trek was awsome, I had promised my step son we would see it when it came out and it was worth it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    freebird60 wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Well seems that their security is a bunch of fraidy cats (can't use the other word I am thinking).

    Still, you were given effective notice so you could have been charged with trespassing.
    That's what I meant about weird, I was ready to leave as soon as the manager first told me to leave but she kept talking saying her hands were tied and that she didn't have a problem with it. I know that you must leave when asked by the business owner or risk a trespassing charge. I'm thinking it was more a certain security guards personal opinion as I've been to lynnhaven several times before while oc.
    It is posted on their signs at select entrances that no illegal weapons or firearms are permitted. The bad part is that several entrances into the mall ARE NOT POSTED.

    Keep in mind that Lynnhaven is private property. Though given the financial straits the management company is in, I doubt they want to turn away anyone willing to give them money.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    darthmord wrote:
    It is posted on their signs at select entrances that no illegal weapons or firearms are permitted.
    If that is actually what it reads, then you are golden.

    :celebrate


    Carry On.

    Ed

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    I'll take a picture of the sign I know is at one entrance (I rarely use) and post it here the next time I'm out that way (Wednesday for movie night with my wife).

    I'm fairly certain I got the wording right. I do remember clearly the wording is ambiguous and could be interpreted a couple of different ways.

    I've also read reports from others here on on the forums that O/CC is verboten at Lynnhaven Mall; that people have been escorted from the property for doing so.

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    I stopped by Lynnhaven tonight since it was our movie night. Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian was pretty good. The kids liked it. So did we.

    Anywho, the sign was wored slightly differently than I previously posted. It states "No firearms or illegal weapons" on the rules of conduct sign posted by the entrance closest to the AMC movie theater. That sign however is NOT posted at all entrances to the mall building. Also, no such notice is posted anywhere except select entrances to the main mall building. You don't see it in the parking lot or in any of the tenant stores.

    The feeling I get is the sign is for insurance purposes more than anything else. If they were truly dead set on banning all firearms, it'd be more clearly posted and in far more places. As it stands, each of these signs is in a darker part of the entrance alcove at the entrances where it is posted. Unless you were looking for the signs, you would NOT see them.

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    darthmord wrote:
    I stopped by Lynnhaven tonight since it was our movie night. Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian was pretty good. The kids liked it. So did we.

    Anywho, the sign was wored slightly differently than I previously posted. It states "No firearms or illegal weapons" on the rules of conduct sign posted by the entrance closest to the AMC movie theater. That sign however is NOT posted at all entrances to the mall building. Also, no such notice is posted anywhere except select entrances to the main mall building. You don't see it in the parking lot or in any of the tenant stores.

    The feeling I get is the sign is for insurance purposes more than anything else. If they were truly dead set on banning all firearms, it'd be more clearly posted and in far more places. As it stands, each of these signs is in a darker part of the entrance alcove at the entrances where it is posted. Unless you were looking for the signs, you would NOT see them.
    That's not cool on their part, I've been there quite a few times and have NEVER seen that sign.

  19. #19
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    darthmord wrote:
    I stopped by Lynnhaven tonight since it was our movie night. Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian was pretty good. The kids liked it. So did we.

    Anywho, the sign was wored slightly differently than I previously posted. It states "No firearms or illegal weapons" on the rules of conduct sign posted by the entrance closest to the AMC movie theater. That sign however is NOT posted at all entrances to the mall building. Also, no such notice is posted anywhere except select entrances to the main mall building. You don't see it in the parking lot or in any of the tenant stores.

    The feeling I get is the sign is for insurance purposes more than anything else. If they were truly dead set on banning all firearms, it'd be more clearly posted and in far more places. As it stands, each of these signs is in a darker part of the entrance alcove at the entrances where it is posted. Unless you were looking for the signs, you would NOT see them.
    I was there the other night and didnt see any such sign. It must have been as concealed as my gun was. Neither saw each other!
    James Reynolds

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  20. #20
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    Hey there. I had a similar incident not too long ago at Lynnhaven. It's here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/5842-50.html about halfway down the page. Welcome to the forum.

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    ProShooter wrote:
    darthmord wrote:
    I stopped by Lynnhaven tonight since it was our movie night. Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian was pretty good. The kids liked it. So did we.

    Anywho, the sign was wored slightly differently than I previously posted. It states "No firearms or illegal weapons" on the rules of conduct sign posted by the entrance closest to the AMC movie theater. That sign however is NOT posted at all entrances to the mall building. Also, no such notice is posted anywhere except select entrances to the main mall building. You don't see it in the parking lot or in any of the tenant stores.

    The feeling I get is the sign is for insurance purposes more than anything else. If they were truly dead set on banning all firearms, it'd be more clearly posted and in far more places. As it stands, each of these signs is in a darker part of the entrance alcove at the entrances where it is posted. Unless you were looking for the signs, you would NOT see them.
    I was there the other night and didnt see any such sign. It must have been as concealed as my gun was. Neither saw each other!
    There are three locations within the Lynnhaven Mall building that I know currently have and one that I know has had the signs posted. They are...

    • Entrance by the Food Court (Upper Level)leading out toward the AMC Theater courtyard and the out-of-building restaurants. If you are exiting, the sign will on your right slightly above eye level.
    • Entrance on the lower level leading out toward the AMC Theater courtyard and the out-of-building restaurants. If you are exiting, the sign will on your right slightly above eye level.
    • Entrance by the carousel. The sign is posted on the right, as you are entering.
    • Entrance down by the end where Barnes & Noble / Dicks is located. That entrance is off the left from the last main courthyard area inside the mall (same general area where the roasted nuts place is). Not sure where (or if) the sign is there as I never use that entrance though I saw it once a long while back.

    None of the other entrances to the mall (service entrances, anchor store entrances, external stores, etc) have any signage posted. Nor are there any signs posted at the Mall Entrances to these aforementioned areas. Thus, standing at the threshold of B&N or Dicks and the Mall, there are no signs indicating 'No Firearms or Illegal Weapons'.

    This is why I'm making the assumption (yes, I know about assuming) that what signage has beenposted was done so to make the lawyers and insurance marginally happy. I find it hard to believe that a gun banning group would do in such a haphazard and ill-thought out manner. I know I can't be the only one who takes pride in their work and ensures it's done as properly and accurately as possible.

    I'm going to be back out there this evening (just my wife & I for Terminator). I'll take the time to stroll through the mall and note all the signs I can find. I'll also verify the locations as it has been a while since I used some of the other main mall entrances. Normally we enter through B&N or just hit the theater without ever entering the Mall Building. I would have done so yesterday but after getting there we had 10 minutes to get tickets and a seat due to babysitter scheduling issues.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    darthmord wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    darthmord wrote:
    I stopped by Lynnhaven tonight since it was our movie night. Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian was pretty good. The kids liked it. So did we.

    Anywho, the sign was wored slightly differently than I previously posted. It states "No firearms or illegal weapons" on the rules of conduct sign posted by the entrance closest to the AMC movie theater. That sign however is NOT posted at all entrances to the mall building. Also, no such notice is posted anywhere except select entrances to the main mall building. You don't see it in the parking lot or in any of the tenant stores.

    The feeling I get is the sign is for insurance purposes more than anything else. If they were truly dead set on banning all firearms, it'd be more clearly posted and in far more places. As it stands, each of these signs is in a darker part of the entrance alcove at the entrances where it is posted. Unless you were looking for the signs, you would NOT see them.
    I was there the other night and didnt see any such sign. It must have been as concealed as my gun was. Neither saw each other!
    There are three locations within the Lynnhaven Mall building that I know currently have and one that I know has had the signs posted. They are...

    • Entrance by the Food Court (Upper Level)leading out toward the AMC Theater courtyard and the out-of-building restaurants. If you are exiting, the sign will on your right slightly above eye level.
    • Entrance on the lower level leading out toward the AMC Theater courtyard and the out-of-building restaurants. If you are exiting, the sign will on your right slightly above eye level.
    • Entrance by the carousel. The sign is posted on the right, as you are entering.
    • Entrance down by the end where Barnes & Noble / Dicks is located. That entrance is off the left from the last main courthyard area inside the mall (same general area where the roasted nuts place is). Not sure where (or if) the sign is there as I never use that entrance though I saw it once a long while back.
    None of the other entrances to the mall (service entrances, anchor store entrances, external stores, etc) have any signage posted. Nor are there any signs posted at the Mall Entrances to these aforementioned areas. Thus, standing at the threshold of B&N or Dicks and the Mall, there are no signs indicating 'No Firearms or Illegal Weapons'.

    This is why I'm making the assumption (yes, I know about assuming) that what signage has beenposted was done so to make the lawyers and insurance marginally happy. I find it hard to believe that a gun banning group would do in such a haphazard and ill-thought out manner. I know I can't be the only one who takes pride in their work and ensures it's done as properly and accurately as possible.

    I'm going to be back out there this evening (just my wife & I for Terminator). I'll take the time to stroll through the mall and note all the signs I can find. I'll also verify the locations as it has been a while since I used some of the other main mall entrances. Normally we enter through B&N or just hit the theater without ever entering the Mall Building. I would have done so yesterday but after getting there we had 10 minutes to get tickets and a seat due to babysitter scheduling issues.
    I would be interested to know where ( or if )there was a sign that I missed. It was the first time that I have been to that mall but I entered from the parking lot, near a large dumpster (on the right)and the Imax was on my left. I saw a " no #$%" sign on a pole to my left but that was it.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  23. #23
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    I would be interested to know where ( or if )there was a sign that I missed. It was the first time that I have been to that mall but I entered from the parking lot, near a large dumpster (on the right)and the Imax was on my left. I saw a " no #$%" sign on a pole to my left but that was it.
    Sounds like you entered from the same place I did. "security" was parked in general area of dumpster.

  24. #24
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    Was there again tonight. Confirmed the sign by the ride and by the entrance near the theater.

    There is NOT an entrance to the mall building near B&N or Dick's except through the stores themselves. And no signs either.

    Was told there was a sign on the photo booth near the entrance by Penny's. We were unable to locate that sign despite looking high & low. So I am comfortable in saying there is an unmarked entrance to the Mall building itself without any signage prohibiting firearms.

    We also swung by several of the stores that have bothexternal entrances and mall proper entrances. No signage posted there either.

    Only signs I found tonight were by the doors leading toward the theater & the doors by the ride that lead out to the parking garage.

    Kinda sad posting policy given they exclude one mall building entrance and all store front entrances to the mall. Yet they still hope to effectively ban firearms. Which makes me wonder... do they really want to ban firearms or are they paying lip service to management / insurance?

    Oh and there aren't any signs posted external to the mall (like in the parking lots) that prohibit firearms or anything else for that matter. We looked. If they are out there, they are very well hidden.

  25. #25
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Looks like time to CC. I certainly won't stop carrying in a place that wants to maintain a safe haven for criminals. Since they flattened the mall in Hampton, the scumbags have all moved to the mall closest to me. We've seen it go steadily downhill over the last few years. Fewer decent people with families go there because the scumbags are taking over the place.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

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    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
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