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Thread: The 9pm ABC law !

  1. #1
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Spending the weekend in "Vah Beach" as they say in Blackwater. I've been CCing most of the time but decided to OC tonight since it was such a pleasant evening.

    My family and I walked along Atlantic Ave without an issue, other than ensuring retention. We stopped for a bit at the Pirates Paradise mini-golf on 22nd. No issues there. As we left, we passed a Va. Beach PD car and officer standing outside monitoring traffic. Walked right by him and nothing was said.

    We walked further down 22nd and found a nice place for dinner - the Abbey Road Pub and Restaurant. The place had a nice outside cafe area and my wife loves eating outside. As we walked through the outside cafe area to the inside of the restaurant, I asked my wife if she wanted to eat inside or out. We must have passed by a guy who was working the door and he overheard my question to my wife. He stopped me inside the doorway and said "actually, you'll have to eat outside because your carrying a concealed weapon". My Glock 23 was of course being carried correctly, but he still used the famous buzzword 'concealed". I explained to him that the gun was most certainly not concealed.

    He then said, and you'll love this - "Well, actually its an ABC thing. Our inside restaurant turns into a bar after 9pm and the ABC law prohibits carrying a weapon into a bar after 9pm" !

    OH REALLY!

    Bar? The restaurant turns into a bar at the stroke of 9? Like a glass slipper?

    I of course told him that it was no problem since my wife wanted to eat outside anyway, but also that he was terribly mistaken since there was no such law. While we were waiting for our food, 2 VBPD officers walked by and my wife asked about this "ABC law" and the officers said that they had never heard of such a law either.


    James Reynolds

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    ProShooter wrote:
    Spending the weekend in "Vah Beach" as they say in Blackwater. I've been CCing most of the time but decided to OC tonight since it was such a pleasant evening.

    My family and I walked along Atlantic Ave without an issue, other than ensuring retention. We stopped for a bit at the Pirates Paradise mini-golf on 22nd. No issues there. As we left, we passed a Va. Beach PD car and officer standing outside monitoring traffic. Walked right by him and nothing was said.

    We walked further down 22nd and found a nice place for dinner - the Abbey Road Pub and Restaurant. The place had a nice outside cafe area and my wife loves eating outside. As we walked through the outside cafe area to the inside of the restaurant, I asked my wife if she wanted to eat inside or out. We must have passed by a guy who was working the door and he overheard my question to my wife. He stopped me inside the doorway and said "actually, you'll have to eat outside because your carrying a concealed weapon". My Glock 23 was of course being carried correctly, but he still used the famous buzzword 'concealed". I explained to him that the gun was most certainly not concealed.

    He then said, and you'll love this - "Well, actually its an ABC thing. Our inside restaurant turns into a bar after 9pm and the ABC law prohibits carrying a weapon into a bar after 9pm" !

    OH REALLY!

    Bar? The restaurant turns into a bar at the stroke of 9? Like a glass slipper?

    I of course told him that it was no problem since my wife wanted to eat outside anyway, but also that he was terribly mistaken since there was no such law. While we were waiting for our food, 2 VBPD officers walked by and my wife asked about this "ABC law" and the officers said that they had never heard of such a law either.


    VBPD Officers are great people. They know the law and they respect it. One of the most professional departments in the state.

    The ignorance of some citizens though, that is always apalling to me.




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    better report that place to the proper authorities! "Bars" are prohibited in virginia!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Maybe you should let the owner of the restaurant know that his employee is making up excuses to turn away paying customers.

    TFred


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    Suppose that instead of making up phantom references to the law, an owner was up front with a house rule that stated you are welcome to eat there, but could not be served any alcohol while carrying.

    Would you still give them your business?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Dispatcher wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:

    VBPD Officers are great people. They know the law and they respect it. One of the most professional departments in the state.

    The ignorance of some citizens though, that is always apalling to me.


    They be now. It's been a few years since I've gone to the beach, but it wasn't always so. Not too terribly long ago, they were running neck and neck with Norfolk as the A$$clowns of the state.

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    Glock27Bill wrote:
    Suppose that instead of making up phantom references to the law, an owner was up front with a house rule that stated you are welcome to eat there, but could not be served any alcohol while carrying.

    Would you still give them your business?
    Personally in the initial situation, I would have informed the employee of no such law, and moved down the street to the next restaurant (unless there was something special about that one.)

    If they were to tell me ahead of time that they would not serve me alcohol, I would be more then happy to continue eating there.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    Maybe you should let the owner of the restaurant know that his employee is making up excuses to turn away paying customers.

    TFred
    Well, technically he wasnt turning us away, he was just saying that we had to eat in the outside section. I did get a comment card though and will be letting the manager know.
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Glock27Bill wrote:
    Suppose that instead of making up phantom references to the law, an owner was up front with a house rule that stated you are welcome to eat there, but could not be served any alcohol while carrying.

    Would you still give them your business?
    I wouldnt have an issue with that. I think that is a responsible policy for owner and patron.
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    Maybe you should let the owner of the restaurant know that his employee is making up excuses to turn away paying customers.

    TFred
    :celebrate

    That ought go over like a truck full of dead babies in a mother's day parade.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Just a guess, but perhaps the ABC Law might be nothing more than a restriction placed on the establishment's ABC License for whatever reason. Restrictions are quite common when there have been issues or other concerns regarding a licensed establishment.

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    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    That may be, but I really doubt that such a restriction would have anything to do with firearms.

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    Glock27Bill wrote:
    Suppose that instead of making up phantom references to the law, an owner was up front with a house rule that stated you are welcome to eat there, but could not be served any alcohol while carrying.

    Would you still give them your business?
    Perhaps the owner should be up front and state that he will not serve alcohol to any one who has car keys inhis/her on their person. Wouldn't that be more effective at saving lives?

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    kaiheitai17 wrote:
    Glock27Bill wrote:
    Suppose that instead of making up phantom references to the law, an owner was up front with a house rule that stated you are welcome to eat there, but could not be served any alcohol while carrying.

    Would you still give them your business?
    Perhaps the owner should be up front and state that he will not serve alcohol to any one who has car keys inhis/her on their person. Wouldn't that be more effective at saving lives?
    Absolutely agree with that one.

    Show up alone and you get one drink.

    Show up in a group and the designated driver is identified as getting limited booze.

    Of course we all know that they willnot do anything that limits sales, which is one reason why we would all go somewhere else rather than disarm for the privelege of giving them our business.

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    Have that man arrested! *Operation of a "bar" is illegal in Virginia.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    user wrote:
    Have that man arrested! Operation of a "bar" is illegal in Virginia.
    funny you thought the same thing I did^^

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Are Virginia Beach officers really that cool? I would have thought differently for some reason although I don't know why. I guess I just write off the eastern part of the state as being rogue.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    My wife spoke with them while I was eating. They barely glanced my way and told her that the concealed laws could be found under 18.2-308 but they never heard of any ABC law. They seemed to be very nice.
    James Reynolds

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    richarcm wrote:
    Are Virginia Beach officers really that cool?* I would have thought differently for some reason although I don't know why.* I guess I just write off the eastern part of the state as being rogue.*
    I've always been impressed with VA Beach officers, and I don't mean just about gun issues. I've had two interactions with them, one because of a fender-bender and one because of a roaming pit bull in our neighborhood. Incidentally, those two times I wasn't carrying at all, but their level of professionalism was nevertheless very apparent. You can tell that they know and like their jobs to a higher degree than many others.

    The good news is that those were the two times I've spoken to officers. I've been around them dozens of times all over the city while carrying and NOT spoken to them. They're very knowledgeable and comfortable with us average folk carrying, which is always a pleasure after three years in Boulder!

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Dispatcher wrote:
    VBPD Officers are great people. They know the law and they respect it. One of the most professional departments in the state.

    The ignorance of some citizens though, that is always apalling to me.
    +1 on that. My brother's youngest daughter is VBPD as is her fiance.

    They are both knowledgable on the legality of OC and have no problems with it.

  21. #21
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    It's strange you had a problem at Abbey Road. I've OCed in there without incident a couple of times. Once with a VB Forensics detective at the table. Interesting tidbit - forensics detectives are required to have a 4-year degree and undergo continuing education but are not issued arrest authority nor a service weapon.

    Dumb.

    Alternately, for your future outings I would suggest The Raven (11th Street) or Black Angus (14th Street, perhaps?)

    VB Police are "better" than their Norfolk counterparts but by no means infallible. So far I've been fortunate in my encounters. Once while CC after engineering a show I was subject to a Terry Stop. The officers questionably requested ID as I was walking down the street claiming I fit the description of someone who had caused a disturbance.

    The only disturbance I caused was Exodus at the Peppermint.

    Anyhow, when they ran my info they then asked if I was carrying (check box next to my name in the computer?) but never asked to see the sidearm.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    wylde007 wrote:
    It's strange you had a problem at Abbey Road. I've OCed in there without incident a couple of times. Once with a VB Forensics detective at the table. Interesting tidbit - forensics detectives are required to have a 4-year degree and undergo continuing education but are not issued arrest authority nor a service weapon.

    Dumb.

    Alternately, for your future outings I would suggest The Raven (11th Street) or Black Angus (14th Street, perhaps?)

    VB Police are "better" than their Norfolk counterparts but by no means infallible. So far I've been fortunate in my encounters. Once while CC after engineering a show I was subject to a Terry Stop. The officers questionably requested ID as I was walking down the street claiming I fit the description of someone who had caused a disturbance.

    The only disturbance I caused was Exodus at the Peppermint.

    Anyhow, when they ran my info they then asked if I was carrying (check box next to my name in the computer?) but never asked to see the sidearm.
    This came from a friend of mine...

    When the police run your ID, the system will return whether or not you have a CHP. If so, the system will indicate such. Many times, they'll be able to determine that from your vehicle tags as well.

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    Actually, the Black Angus is owned by Chris Savvides, who is the anti-gun head of the VB Restaurant Association, and a bigwig in the Virginia Restaurant Association, who have lobbied to FIGHT the repeal of the restaurant ban. I’m surprised you would recommend that place. Have you had no issues there?

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    This came from a friend of mine...

    When the police run your ID, the system will return whether or not you have a CHP. If so, the system will indicate such. Many times, they'll be able to determine that from your vehicle tags as well.
    You are correct. The response from VCIN shows a "hit", on your tags or your DL.

    When the message is opened up, it will state that you are a CHP holder.

    Carl


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    johnfenter wrote:
    Actually, the Black Angus is owned by Chris Savvides, who is the anti-gun head of the VB Restaurant Association, and a bigwig in the Virginia Restaurant Association, who have lobbied to FIGHT the repeal of the restaurant ban. I’m surprised you would recommend that place. Have you had no issues there?
    I was not aware of the proprietor's stance and have not dined in there in some time.

    Apologies for misdirecting. Withdrawn.

    The Raven, however (Bobby & Ricky Dunnington) is still good people.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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