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Thread: Carry a Long Gun

  1. #1
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    So, since Texans can't carry a handgun in the open, maybe it's time to sling that favorite .22 or 30.06 over your shoulder and head out to the grocery store. I wonder what effect that will have? Of course I'mhalf joking, but I'm also half serious.

  2. #2
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    Notso wrote:
    So, since Texans can't carry a handgun in the open, maybe it's time to sling that favorite .22 or 30.06 over your shoulder and head out to the grocery store. I wonder what effect that will have? Of course I'mhalf joking, but I'm also half serious.
    It has been discussed. In order for it to be useful to the cause, it has to help us move public sentiment to allow open carry of handguns. I have my doubts that this would have that effect. It would probably have the opposite. You would certainly be stopped by police. Is it legal? Yes, but expect a hassle. General observers will probably think you are nuts and they might even call their legislators to make open carry of a long gun illegal (the Texas Constitution only allows the "wearing" of arms to be regulated, but the legislature has arguably violated this before).

    My preferred approach is an open carry picnic where everyone carried pre-1899 handguns. First, you want open carriers to be seen as law abiding and peaceful. Being in a large group sharing fellowship conveys this image. Going to the store alone doesn't -- you stand out from the crowd. Additionally, by exercising our right to carry antique arms and do so in a group setting, we get lawmakers, prosecutors, and LEOs attention that open carry of antique arms IS legal and can be done peacfully, so why not extend the privilege to modern ones? You might even be able to get reasonably fair news coverage.

    SA-TX

  3. #3
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    SA-TX wrote:
    It has been discussed. In order for it to be useful to the cause, it has to help us move public sentiment to allow open carry of handguns. I have my doubts that this would have that effect. It would probably have the opposite. You would certainly be stopped by police. Is it legal? Yes, but expect a hassle. General observers will probably think you are nuts and they might even call their legislators to make open carry of a long gun illegal (the Texas Constitution only allows the "wearing" of arms to be regulated, but the legislature has arguably violated this before).

    My preferred approach is an open carry picnic where everyone carried pre-1899 handguns. First, you want open carriers to be seen as law abiding and peaceful. Being in a large group sharing fellowship conveys this image. Going to the store alone doesn't -- you stand out from the crowd. Additionally, by exercising our right to carry antique arms and do so in a group setting, we get lawmakers, prosecutors, and LEOs attention that open carry of antique arms IS legal and can be done peacfully, so why not extend the privilege to modern ones? You might even be able to get reasonably fair news coverage.

    SA-TX
    I would presume by the way you addressed the subject of long gun carry as a method to further the OC cause, what has been the general sentiment to the wearing of an empty holster in public? To my way of thinking the empty holster would generate questions and thus an opportunity to discuss the concept of open carry for Texans.


  4. #4
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    We need to remember the purpose of carrying arms in the first place: to safe guard against tyranny.

    If you make exercising your right into a political message, then that is kinda *****-footing around the situation. We the people hold the power, because a) "Political power flows from the barrel of a gun"(Mao Zedong), and b) We the people created the government of Texas, in the first place, and not the other way around.

    Today, Texas bans us from wielding our most important political power in public. That sounds like tyranny to me.

    [end of rant]


    I found this essay concerning liberty to be very useful:
    http://www.lawfulgov.org/proact.htm


    If we keep the government in fear of us, that is liberty. The other way around is tyranny.



    cheers


  5. #5
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    Although (and of course)we want OC of HANDGUNS in Texas, the fact that OC of long guns is legalwould be a solution in my particular situation, as it would have been during the aftermath of Hurricane Ike down here.

    I mean back then, I would walk the condo/apartment grounds at night ("looter patrol") carrying a handgun in an OC holster...since it was dark (no power = no lighting ANYwhere on the island), even if cops DID drive by the property, they wouldnt have seen the holster (or me, I'd hide in the shadows).

    One of the other guys here, however,who talked to the police said they weren't going to bother any of us here (only 9 of us stayed at the complex for Ike, 3 guys and 5 women -- everyone else evacuated) if we stayedON the property, despite it being illegal to OC a handgun in TX. But if I had had my Mossberg 590 with me, THAT would have been better because it would have been completely legal and there'd be no need to worry about the cops. I didn't think of this though when I moved here as I wanted to leave as much of my stuff in storage so I could move more easily, and I didn't want lots of stuff all around me here, including all my guns, ammo, etc., so I only chose a couple of handguns and my 22 rifle to take with me.

    Anyway, I am not able to take the trip I was hoping to back West (and pick up my 590 while I was there) but I DO have my .22LR rifle, and THAT on a sling over my shoulder would be just as legal -- and I could walk the grounds DAY or night without worrying about cops seeing me -- and I could leave the handgun in my apartment (if said apartment survives the storm).

    So in this case, the legal OC of long guns is a great thing!

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  6. #6
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    The exercise of your RTKBA following "Rita" actually trumped State statute - although given the lack of respect given that RIGHT in N.O. following "Katrina' - you were wise not to push your property boundaries. Big difference between the Texas LEO reaction and LA - huh ?

    I am convinced the long-gun "exception" to the infringement of the RTKBA with a handgun is enlightening, and points the way to an understanding of how to approach this problem in Texas - as well as resolving it.

    Your Mosberg 590 [like mine] can deliver at least 1500 foot lbs of energyon impact - compared to what (?) maybe 400 Foot lbs from a handgun ? Nine .30 cal rounds , or one .70 cal round at 1700 foot lbs on target - and Texas will "allow" us toBEAR that kind of fire power - but not a .22 cal revolver ? Give me a break.

    I 'm going to repeat what's been stated before. The Texas Penal Code Title 9 Chapter 42 [42.01] dealing with disorderly conduct addresses the problem of threatening another person with a weapon without justification. Title 10, Chapter 46[46.02]- unlawful carrying of weapons [handgun] PRESUMES the handgun's potential for concealment - and the general concern regarding concealment is supported by Article 13 of the Texas Constitution.

    The CHL law [Subchapter H, Chapter 411 of Government Code] addressed the concealment concern in 1995. Title 10 ,Chapter 46 [46.035] addresses "intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly fails to conceal" by a CHL licensee . This section does not pertain to a A NON-licensee. A LICENSEE is PRESUMED to be carrying the handgun CONCEALED - and therefore would display the weapon [menacingly] FROM CONCEALMENT [also a violation of Title 9, Chapter 42.01 - disorderly conduct.]

    The lawful BEARING [carrying openly/visibly] of a handgun is protected by Article 13 of Texas Constitution. Therefore Chapter 46.02 must be addressed as unconstitutional as currently constructed, and 46.035 either rescinded, or amended to read "in a manner calculated to alarm, or threaten " .Amending section 46.02 to read "CONCEALED handgun" would resolve this violation of Texas law [the Texas Const]

  7. #7
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    So, when are you going to run for office andintroduce these changes?

    Of course, you'd have to move to Texas first...

    -- John D
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  8. #8
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    SANDCREEK wrote:
    The lawful BEARING [carrying openly/visibly] of a handgun is protected by Article 13 of Texas Constitution. Therefore Chapter 46.02 must be addressed as unconstitutional as currently constructed, and 46.035 either rescinded, or amended to read "in a manner calculated to alarm, or threaten " .Amending section 46.02 to read "CONCEALED handgun" would resolve this violation of Texas law [the Texas Const]
    Sancreek, you are thinking inside the box. We did make it pretty clear to the Texas Legislature that we wanted the Penal Code changed.

    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many Citizens, because of their respect for what appears to be law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their rights due to ignorance."
    --US. v. Minker, 350 US 179 at 187

    "An unconstitutional act is not law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation as inoperative as though it had never been passed."
    --Norton v Shelby County, 118 US 425, 442

    I am willing to OC from my house to a burger joint nearby and subsequently defend my right to own and carry arms if I end up in court. Planning would be key, but it is possible, very direct, and honest.

    If that is no good, the members of OCDO could all at once run for office. Since OC'ing is somehow an issue, stating our primary goal being the unbaning of OC might be counterproductive.

    Two years is quite a while to be defenseless on the streets that we paid for.


    my $0.02

  9. #9
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    I recognize the hard work already donethrough the efforts of many Texans to rectify this unconstitutionalgliche in Texas statutory law. I'm basically reciting the obvious - for the benefit of those who are still confused/confounded by current "law" in Texas. Texas LAW is defined by the Texas Constitution , even when it is ignored by Texas government agencies-including the legislative branch. The same problem exists in Colorado in regards to State government entities not respecting the CO Constitution.

    I am on the same page with you down there in Richardson, Texas. I spentmost of my years in Texas in the "FREE territory" west of the Brazos - where carrying/wearinga handgun wasn't prima facie evidence of criminal conduct. Your perspective on how to address this "legal" conundrumisshared by many Texans I would expect. It's not that I'm thinking inside the box so much as I'm struggling to reach some "legal" accomodation that will get Texas where it needs to be on this issue.

    We have toview this issue through the cloud of confusion that government loves to establish in order to circumvent constitutional law. [MOST] of the Texas legislative delegation understands very well that the Texas Constitution provides a protection/guarantee for what we now call lawful "open carry"- and that sec 46.02 of Title 10 is unconstitutional as constructed. The elitists who think THEY know what is best for Texans choose to ignore and violate the Texas constitution that they SWORE to uphold, and the true REPRESENTATIVES feel like they're between a rock & the proverbial hard place.

    Intentionally or otherwise - Those who oppose OC in Texas, or simply don't know how to deal with the issueand by defaultare leaving the "solution" up to the PEOPLE - rather than address it head-on in the Capitol. If the people of Texas[and visitors from neighboring states] have to push the Texas government into compliance with its own constitution - by exercising their rights, and enforcing them in the courtroom -so be it.

    The present "lowest common denominator" approach to the exercise of this civil right can not be forever tolerated. It is obvious that Texas "powers that be" do not want certain "stereotypes", [for lack of a more PC term] to be walking around wearing a handgun visibly hosltered. Never mind that very few law-abiding citizens would actually exercise this RIGHT - and ZERO criminals [and those that think it's cool to resemble a criminal]would consider it-even if they still retained the right.

    Some elements in society choose a "counter-cultural" lifestyle. The sad reality that "some" folks prefer to live in "gangland USA" - in no way abrogates the rights of civilized people to exercise their God-given, and constitutionally protected right to defend themselves in the wake of what constitutes a growing culturalconspiracy to commitepidemic violent crimes against persons- at will- as though society owed them the "right" topillage other 's fruits of labor.

    No - I don't believe that I'm stuck inside the box - just stubbornly optimistic that we can still educate & persuade others on this matter. Maybe the "TSunami" strategy isn't the best method. Perhaps more of a return to the traditional "Texas common law sense" approach is in order. The "diversity" and PC concepts presently obstruct the path of freedom . I'm all for diversity if it takes a constructive "form",but the current fad glorifying "gangsta" philosophy - is rendering law enforcement's task nearly impossible, and confounds the average citizen's ability to profile and I.D. the real criminal threat when it presents. The promoters, practitioners, sympathizers, supporters , and enablers of this fad [I believe] are intent upon destroying our nation as we know it.

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