Protect your piece

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I got into a conversation at workwith aco workerwho feels any one who has a gun (or hassex, gets married, owns a house, or basicaly lives for that matter) should have to take a class and be well trained before being aloud to do so. He was saying I was idiotic for OCing and just asking for trouble. He kept giving me senarios of people comming up behind me and taking my gun.

I know if anyone came up behind me I'd be able to get my hand to the gun before they figured out how to get it out of the holster. I'd use every last ounce of strength to keep that gun protected. I'd probobly just lay on it, let him kick the sh*t out of me until I could get the gun out and get a round off.

Anyone with any real life stories of having to protect their gun? What would you do if it happened? Any advice to keep it safer?

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What's to keep your condom from breaking during sex? Your wife from cheating on you? Your house from catching fire?

Maybe he should be made to take a class in holding a conversation before he started talking to you? Or perhaps a class for crossing the street? Maybe one for living your life without taking training classes?

Life is not 100%, ever. There is no way to be 100% safe all the time, even with training. Special forces operatives die all the time, as do SWAT members, etc. And they spend hours upon hours of training.

My solution to stopping a gun grab? "Suicide" flap holster. A lot of people say they are slower than other holsters but I haven't noticed a big difference in draw time once I got used to it. Once you've gone through the motions enough you get quicker and quicker. There is absolutely no way someone is going to be able to get behind me and grab my gun. It also works if you're OCing in the rain, the only thing getting wet is the handle, which is plastic so no biggie.

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There have been zero confirmed instances of a gun being grabbed of a non-leo EVER.
That should be evidence enough that the scenario isn't plausible. It is good to be prepared for the situation, but not something to worry over.

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I got into a conversation at workwith aco workerwho feels any one who has a gun (or hassex, gets married, owns a house, or basicaly lives for that matter) should have to take a class and be well trained before being aloud to do so.

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I can't say that I disagree with that. We do actually take classes before being able to live from our parents and others. It may not be a formla class but we do learn how to live and some need more training than others. Anyone who have been married by a minister probably had to have meetings with him/hre before they performed the ceremony, I know I did and he did point out some things that I still think about 25 years later. One of the real problems of life today is people jumping into sex or marriage with no idea of what they are getting into. However some do know and still do it.

As for buying a house why do you think we are in a recession right now. People buying homes, financing 100% of the amount and with no way to pay it back. Lots of people are at fault with that but someone beside a fast talking realtor should have sat down with these people and explained reality to them.

The rest of your rant is fine but ignorance is not bliss in the game of life.

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No amount of 'training' will ever fix 'stupid'. Who trains the trainer? Some people can't cross the street on their own w/o counceling. 'Know what this is? Herd mentality. They need to be herded... these are the sheeple. Everybody stay in a huddle... let somebody else make our decisions and we'll follow along because they must be right... Because they're in the 'being right' business to tell us what to do.

Sheeple don't want to think, explore and discover. Sheeple don't like to take chances and bleat loudly at those who do. Sheeple assume everything is 100% and need directions and labels and warnings and cautions, and signs, and lists of ingrediants and contents and hazards both real and imagined or possible. Sheeple are generally incapable of critical, comparative thinking and avoid it at all costs under any circumstances. Sheeple cannot take responsibility. Sheeple take directions.

Too bad there's no Puke smiley.

OC gun grabs don't happen. Not that they can't happen but they don't happen to Joe Sixpack.

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If I can put my two cents in, while I believe eevryone who is going to carry or even handle a firearm should be properly trained in the safe handling of firearms. However, I disagree with any notion that such training should be government mandated, run, or controlled. Ithink maybe that is more inline with what the poster was getting at. Not that someone should just grab a firearm, having never touched one, and start playing with it.

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RebelHell wrote:

If I can put my two cents in, while I believe eevryone who is going to carry or even handle a firearm should be properly trained in the safe handling of firearms. However, I disagree with any notion that such training should be government mandated, run, or controlled. Ithink maybe that is more inline with what the poster was getting at. Not that someone should just grab a firearm, having never touched one, and start playing with it.

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Just like the difference between "Shall" issue and "May" issue the difference between Should and Must is very big. There are many things that people Should be trained on but Must be trained is not required.

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RebelHell wrote:

If I can put my two cents in, while I believe eevryone who is going to carry or even handle a firearm should be properly trained in the safe handling of firearms. However, I disagree with any notion that such training should be government mandated, run, or controlled. Ithink maybe that is more inline with what the poster was getting at. Not that someone should just grab a firearm, having never touched one, and start playing with it.

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On this subject, for many years firearm training WAS mandated by the Federal government. It was part of mandatory military conscription, or as commonly called the Draft. US males of Draft age were given professional firearms training during boot camp or basic training.

The result was men of all ages knew firearms safety and could pass on that training to their children.

A very strong byproduct of that military experience was the ability to survive during difficult times, without the necessity of running home to mommy!

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When ever a state thinks that somthing need be taught to every one they go the the state board of public instruction and it is incorperated into a curriculum required to pass a particular gade or to graduate from highschool

wolla , we have health education taught in schools some as early as 5th grade but all by highschool.

and learning about holding a bank account checking , credit = economics class

how to vote , civic duties , local,state ,and feral goverment = goverment class

not that these are apparently working so well or maybe they are Wisconsin the only place i ever attended school did teach these and we did not have near as many bad morgages as other states

this is definitly a states rights issue let the state handle it the fed is only there to maintain a currency , trade interstate and internationaland military

the way it is handled in wisconsin if you were born on or after 1973 you must have taken hunters education primarily firearms saftey curriculum with a bunch of shoot don't shoot training. in order to purchase a licience to hunt thius works well many parents send thier kids even if they don't hunt it is very inexpensive like 10 dollars the coarseis put on by volenteers and they have a standard written test - no it doesn't get every one educated but it gets a lot most of the people who want to be educated. the dnr here likes to tell every one that we have not had a firarms related death caused buy aperson whohad taken hunters safty for as long as it has been implimented. not bad

some of these hunters education classes are held in the school after normal classes are done for the day making access to them even better, but many liberal school boards reject this idea - that hunters or firearms education should not take place in a school - so most are held at clubs ranges or communuty rooms in municipal buildings


this is good they are then regulating a state sold licience to harvest a sate natuarl resource and not the right to own or keep a firarm

and since landowners of 10 acers or more canhuntsmall gamewithout a licenseand other game withcrop damage tags it doen't mess with land owner rights



don't get me wrong i like firearms and defence training i wish there were more of it and not so expensive especialy close by but goverment need keep it's place regulating what it is designated to regulate comerce, roads, state property, natural resources, taxes and not try to regulate rights.

if you would like them to regulate your right to bear arms in defence of your person , fammily , and property then perhaps you would like to have them tell you that you now need to go to church at the church at the end of the street because it is closer and you are wasting fuel going all the way across town to your choosen church or temple

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TylerEMT wrote:

I got into a conversation at workwith aco workerwho feels any one who has a gun (or hassex, gets married, owns a house, or basicaly lives for that matter) should have to take a class and be well trained before being aloud to do so. He was saying I was idiotic for OCing and just asking for trouble. He kept giving me senarios of people comming up behind me and taking my gun.

I know if anyone came up behind me I'd be able to get my hand to the gun before they figured out how to get it out of the holster. I'd use every last ounce of strength to keep that gun protected. I'd probobly just lay on it, let him kick the sh*t out of me until I could get the gun out and get a round off.

Anyone with any real life stories of having to protect their gun? What would you do if it happened? Any advice to keep it safer?

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It doesn't happen, because there is a great amount of risk associated with going for someone's gun. Your friend is blatantly ignoring this factor, and is instead focusing on the irrelevant. If someone, other than a police officer, goes for my gun, they are threatening my life, and those around me. I think we all know what becomes justified after that.

Then the question becomes, "Who created the situation? The OCer, or the criminal?"
Do we blame the criminal, or law abiding citizen? Are we really going to have that argument?

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TylerEMT wrote:

I got into a conversation at workwith aco workerwho feels any one who has a gun (or hassex, gets married, owns a house, or basicaly lives for that matter) should have to take a class and be well trained before being aloud to do so. He was saying I was idiotic for OCing and just asking for trouble. He kept giving me senarios of people comming up behind me and taking my gun.

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this individual you speak about would not be happy even if everyone in the country was an 18B. The only thing this person wants to do is whatif you to death. What if you got up in the morning, walked into your kitchen and a big green earth worm rose up from the ground beneath you and swallowed you? What if you were here, and what about there---

what this person is telling you is that he/she feels that they would most likely be disarmed, or would try to disarm you. They are projecting their fears and inadequacies upon you.

As for someone coming up behind you and taking your gun--the person who is most likely to do that is a LEO--wanting to try and prove to you how quickly you could be disarmed...wear the right type of holster and you give yourself those extra milliseconds needed to respond to the attack.

as for sex--that should come naturally. As for buying a house--simply educate yourself about the possible mortgage options, and don't be suckered in by fly by night scams and high interest rates on loans..

As for getting married--learn that it is a covenant and don't run from every trouble and trial that comes your way--know that a relationship requires real work and sacrifice from both sides.... IF the individual who was talking to you did not know this--then it is HE, and not you who needs to be educated.

bottom line--don't waste valuable breath or time trying to rationally discuss things with an irrational and unreasonable person whose primary goal is to be argumentative regardless of how you answer their ridiculous question(s).

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TylerEMT wrote:

I know if anyone came up behind me I'd be able to get my hand to the gun before they figured out how to get it out of the holster. I'd use every last ounce of strength to keep that gun protected. I'd probobly just lay on it, let him kick the sh*t out of me until I could get the gun out and get a round off.

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That is a very admirable intention and I do wish you and anyone else who feels the same way the same luck in maintaining it. However, it is a head in the sand approach to risk management. If a savvy pick pocket can take a watch or wallet without the owner knowing it, what makes you think there isn't even a probable risk that someone could NOT lift your firearm from your side without your knowledge? Risk management is about acknowledging risks and mitigating them, not about completely ignoring or denying their possibilities.

I don't think there is a gun owner who wouldn't protect their firearm with the same ferocity as you have defined. However, a responsible firearm owner and carrier knows there are risks associated with carrying and does his best to mitigate them.

Your friend - well, let him know how well mandatory classes work. Plain and simple, if a person doesn't want to learn, they won't, nor will they apply anything they learned in mandatory classes. The whole concept of mandatory education is flawed. Look at driver's education. If everyone did what they were told in driver's ed, there wouldn't be an accident ever, people wouldn't drive tired or drunk; people wouldn't speed; people would be more aware at intersections; heck they may even begin signaling before changing lanes.

There has to be a desire to learn before education of any type works. Those that desire firearm training and education seek it out.

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TylerEMT wrote:

I got into a conversation at workwith aco workerwho feels any one who has a gun (or hassex, gets married, owns a house, or basicaly lives for that matter) should have to take a class and be well trained before being aloud to do so. He was saying I was idiotic for OCing and just asking for trouble. He kept giving me senarios of people comming up behind me and taking my gun.

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Other than the how to have sex part (they will have to figure that out on their own), all of that subject matter discussed above falls on the parents for information and "training."It is not the governments' responsibility to determine how you live, or whether you are trained in the matterof marriage, gun ownership, orbuying houses.

Secondly, I wouldbe shocked if you could find even one documented case of an open carrier having their gun taken from them. Your co-worker if grossly mis-informed and evidently relies on the government to solve his problems and depends on their solutions.

I wouldn't doubt it if he would be the type that stands on his roof and waves at the helicopters to save him when all hell is breaking loose.

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Flintlock wrote:

Secondly, I wouldbe shocked if you could find even one documented case of an open carrier having their gun taken from them. Your co-worker if grossly mis-informed and evidently relies on the government to solve his problems and depends on their solutions.

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I agree with your post. However, where would it be documented? I know for a fact I have read news stories of Law Enforcement officers having their weapon taken and used against them. I would have to imagine one of the reasons individual citizens don't have documented cases is because there is a very VERY small population of people that open carry. The probability is too small.

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Mungo wrote:

Flintlock wrote:

Secondly, I wouldbe shocked if you could find even one documented case of an open carrier having their gun taken from them. Your co-worker if grossly mis-informed and evidently relies on the government to solve his problems and depends on their solutions.

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I agree with your post. However, where would it be documented? I know for a fact I have read news stories of Law Enforcement officers having their weapon taken and used against them. I would have to imagine one of the reasons individual citizens don't have documented cases is because there is a very VERY small population of people that open carry. The probability is too small.

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This is a topic that arises about open carrying on a regular basis and is refuted because of it's lack of proof based on news links, books, magazines articles, or fromgovernment studies that I have personally ever witnessedwith regards tocitizen open carry. Personally, I don't even think mostpeople even notice as they appear oblivious.

There have been LEO that have had their gun taken from them and even used on them, that is true.

However, in many of the incidents that I have read about, the police officer was making an attempt to arrest, detain, pull over,or question a potential criminal. I would be involved in none of those types of situations.It is extremely rare that a police officer would have their gun taken from them from behind, or without their knowledge just as it is for a citizen.

In fact, I read a lot more cases of guns being left on the toilet then being taken from them.

Situational awareness (not walking around in condition white) and a proper retension holster are paramount for any open carrier.