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Thread: Concealed Carry 1911

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Hi folks,

    I have reason to start carrying a CCW and wanted to look at a small 1911. I know para makes a small LDA pistol in 45. Does anyone have any experience with this, or any other small 1911 specifically designed for CC?


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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    Full sized 1911's are just as easy to CC as those prone to malfunction shorties are. I'd suggest borrowing a 5" 1911 from a friend first and carrying it for a week. You'll be amazed how good it conceals.

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    The market is flooded with 3" and 4" 1911s. Kimber, Springfield, Para Ordnance, and Colt may or may not make small 1911 style pistols. It seems like every time I pick up a gun rag, right on the front cover is a picture of some super expensive compact 1911 that costs more than I make in a month (not to bash 1911s, I prefer full size 5"). Kimbers are especially popular when it comes to CC 1911s, but from the reviews I have read about them, they have questionable quality control. I'm not willing to dump 900+ on a handgun that may or may not work right out of the box.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    I already CC a small pistol from time to time. I alsohave a couple of full size pistols and there is no way I can CC my full size guns. I've tried. I'm looking for something that I can carry IWB with shorts.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    spyderdude wrote:
    The market is flooded with 3" and 4" 1911s. Kimber, Springfield, Para Ordnance, and Colt may or may not make small 1911 style pistols. It seems like every time I pick up a gun rag, right on the front cover is a picture of some super expensive compact 1911 that costs more than I make in a month (not to bash 1911s, I prefer full size 5"). Kimbers are especially popular when it comes to CC 1911s, but from the reviews I have read about them, they have questionable quality control. I'm not willing to dump 900+ on a handgun that may or may not work right out of the box.
    So, I guess you don't have any experience with them?

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    I recommend the Springfield EMP. - $1,000

    Holds

    8+1 .40 S&W

    9+1 9mm







    Springfield makes a damn fine 1911 platform. I know someone else who has a Para Hawg, and swears by it the same.

    I've not heard anything about any other Micro-1911's. I don't know anyone who's got a Micro-Kimber either. I do know that the Para Hawg and the Springfield EMP are the only I would consider carrying. Preferably the EMP b/c I an SA fan. :P

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Dustin wrote:
    I recommend the Springfield EMP. - $1,000

    Holds

    8+1 .40 S&W

    9+1 9mm







    Springfield makes a damn fine 1911 platform. I know someone else who has a Para Hawg, and swears by it the same.

    I've not heard anything about any other Micro-1911's. I don't know anyone who's got a Micro-Kimber either. I do know that the Para Hawg and the Springfield EMP are the only I would consider carrying. Preferably the EMP b/c I an SA fan. :P
    I have looked at this, but am really looking for a 45.

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    buster81 wrote:

    I have looked at this, but am really looking for a 45.
    We'll Springfield does make a Champion Model - $900, which I would really love to own.



    Champion 4'' Bull Barrel



    Champion Operator



    Champon Light Weight - 30oz.



    Champion GI Model





    4'' Barrel

    7+1 .45

    37oz. Empty

  9. #9
    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    buster81 wrote:
    I already CC a small pistol from time to time. I alsohave a couple of full size pistols and there is no way I can CC my full size guns. I've tried. I'm looking for something that I can carry IWB with shorts.
    Once more I'll state you need to borrow a full size 1911 with a proper holster from someoneand try it out. If you're going to be at the convention Sat you can try mine. I have never found another gun that conceals BETTER than my full size 1911. Not even a Glock 26. Successfully CC'ing a pistol relies on two things: Slide width and grip length. You have probably failed with your full size guns because they are fat in the slide and long/fat in the grip. Glocks are a prime example, they make very poor CC guns. A 1911 is one of the slimmest handguns out there (in 45). If you properly "cant" the holster, the grip will not print either. No matter what angle you look at me from, you cannot tell I'm carrying when I havethe 1911 CC on my hip.

    Experience: I have owned and carried... Glock 17, Glock 26, Glock 39, Sig P226, FS HK USP 45, FS HK-45, FS Kimber 1911.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    buster81 wrote:
    I already CC a small pistol from time to time. I alsohave a couple of full size pistols and there is no way I can CC my full size guns. I've tried. I'm looking for something that I can carry IWB with shorts.
    Once more I'll state you need to borrow a full size 1911 with a proper holster from someoneand try it out. If you're going to be at the convention Sat you can try mine. I have never found another gun that conceals BETTER than my full size 1911. Not even a Glock 26. Successfully CC'ing a pistol relies on two things: Slide width and grip length. You have probably failed with your full size guns because they are fat in the slide and long/fat in the grip. Glocks are a prime example, they make very poor CC guns. A 1911 is one of the slimmest handguns out there (in 45). If you properly "cant" the holster, the grip will not print either. No matter what angle you look at me from, you cannot tell I'm carrying when I havethe 1911 CC on my hip.

    Experience: I have owned and carried... Glock 17, Glock 26, Glock 39, Sig P226, FS HK USP 45, FS HK-45, FS Kimber 1911.
    The 1911 is thin which is a big advantage when carrying concealed. However the problem with the full length 1911 is that the length of the barrel puts more gun down your side or back which makes it more difficult when bending over. The full length 1911 is a great conceal gun when standing but a bit more difficult when bending over or sitting down.

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    Ok, but that Champion is only 1" shorter on the slide according to SA's website. Maybe I'm not seeing the big (or small) picture here since I'm a big, tall guy. The removal of 1" from a pistol doesn't mean much to me from a concealability standpoint.

    One thing I have found to be true however, if the barrel is too short the firearm will "flop over" to the outside and print horribly. This is due to too much mass being above the beltine (plus the addition of 8 rounds of 45 ammo) and not enough mass under the beltline (the slide). The length of the slide (under the beltline) also adds stability, the shorter the slide the more outward "flop" you'll experience. Longer slides hug the hip moreso than shorter slides. I don't even bother carrying the baby glocks IWB. They actually conceal better in a pancake holster OWB with an untucked shirt!

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    buster81 wrote:
    I already CC a small pistol from time to time. I alsohave a couple of full size pistols and there is no way I can CC my full size guns. I've tried. I'm looking for something that I can carry IWB with shorts.
    Once more I'll state you need to borrow a full size 1911 with a proper holster from someoneand try it out. If you're going to be at the convention Sat you can try mine. I have never found another gun that conceals BETTER than my full size 1911. Not even a Glock 26. Successfully CC'ing a pistol relies on two things: Slide width and grip length. You have probably failed with your full size guns because they are fat in the slide and long/fat in the grip. Glocks are a prime example, they make very poor CC guns. A 1911 is one of the slimmest handguns out there (in 45). If you properly "cant" the holster, the grip will not print either. No matter what angle you look at me from, you cannot tell I'm carrying when I havethe 1911 CC on my hip.

    Experience: I have owned and carried... Glock 17, Glock 26, Glock 39, Sig P226, FS HK USP 45, FS HK-45, FS Kimber 1911.

    :quirkyOnce more, I'll state that I'm looking for some feedback from folks that have actually owned, and carried oneof the specifically designed CC 1911's. If you have ever owned, carried, touched, shot, or handled in any way a 1911 with a 3" barrel, 4.75" in height, weighing 20-30 ounces, I'd love to hear about it. If you don't have experience with them, that's ok.

    If carrying your full size 1911 tucked into your wastband with your shirt tucked in over top of it works for you, great. It doesn't for me, hence, my initial question bolded above.

    So,you are NOT going to convice me that a 1911 with a 5" barrel and a 5.75" height at 35-40ounces will sit in my waistband without printing. From your last post, you say you are "a big tall guy". I'll give you a hint. I am not, so the difference in size is much greater for me than it is for you. Clear enough?

    Here is something that you might be able to help with. You say that the shorties are prone to malfunction. I've heard this rumour as well. Is this just something you've heard, or have you actually had them malfunction on you?



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    buster81 ,

    I carry a kimber tactical ultraII ( 3 inch bbl ) I am 5-8 and way over weight. No way could I carry IWB a full size 1911. The 3 inch digs into me when I sit. I have put 800 rnds through this gun and only had 3 stopages . All 3 were in the first 50 rounds through the gun.

    Since I carry IWB , I have no issues with the gun trying to kick the butt out. By the way the tactical has a magwell exstension ( 1/4 inch ) which makes the gun 5 inches high. I haven't had any trouble with it and the extra length gives you a full grip ... well for me it does anyway.

    Hope this info helps you .

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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    Successfully CC'ing a pistol relies on two things: Slide width and grip length.
    What about the persons waistline ? Overweight folks have different issue's when trying to conceal I would imagine.


    I don't even CC, but I know there's ALOT more to take into affect than just slide width, and grip length. :?

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    I owned/or currently ownaDetonics Combat Master, Colt C.C.O., Colt 1991-A1 officers, and a Para CCW and several full sized 1911.

    The Commander slide on a Officers frame is a sweet concealment firearm with a proper holster the gun truly disappears under a loose shirt.
    The same can be said for full sized 1911 depending on body size, holsterand gun placement.

    If you would like to try the Para for a few hrs I might be able to arrange for someone to take it the convention on Saturday (won't be able to attend) you would have to leave some collateral with them.

    If I had to choose just onegun to carry (oc/cc) it would be my Colt C.C.O..
    The CCO has a 4.25"barrel, SS slide and Aluminum officers sized grip frame.
    It would be better if chambered in 10mm but I can live with 45acp.
    The balance of weight and power is comforting.


    Barrels shorter than 4" don't appeal to me, the velocity loose just bugs me and they don't offer any real advantage when concealing, imho.
    http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html

    At a recent shoot an attendee had issues (shooter related)with his Defender sized firearm, the recoil was too much for him to handle.

    With all that being said, I normally OC a Full-sized Glock (20 or 35), my cc guns vary depending on my perceived needs.
    Currently I usea H&K P7, Custom Ruger SP101 3"bbl, Glock 20,35, Colt 1903, Kel-tec PF9, NAA mini revolver, Commander/officers 1911


    I own more 1911's (variants)than any other firearm.

    Happy hunting.




    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    I carry a Detonics Combat Master almost every day. I also have a Springfield Champ that I occasionally carry. Both carry comfortably (I am 5'10" @265).

    Other than polishing the feed ramp, the Champ has performed from day one. The Combat Master needed nothing modified and is actually easier to control than the Springfield IMHO.

    I cannot give an opinion on the others but the Detonics is superior to any 1911 I've cc'd. (It works well for oc too )

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    I carry an EMP 9mm in a MTAC holster and it carries very well and is easily concealed. The EMP and 1911s in general are very thin pistols that lend to CCing.

    Here is a vid review on the MTAC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnrpXb_8uuw MTAC allows you to adjust how high the pistol rides on your belt as well as the angle (cant). I echo the review on that the retention isn't the best, but it is adequate for CC. My EMP does not fall out with shaking like in the video though. Everything else I like about the MTAC. Another plus is the bodies can be changed to different pistol bodies.


    EDIT: Well after I got home I tested the holster upside down and sure enough the gun fell out. It didn't do this after I got it, but I guess the leather broke in some and the gun was now a bit more loose than I had remembered. I tighted it up and it's better but still falls out. I don't know if it's such a big deal, because when carrying your belt and body also applies some tension to the holster. I'm not going to ask anyone to try to shake me upside with the holster mounted.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Agent19 wrote:


    Barrels shorter than 4" don't appeal to me, the velocity loose just bugs me and they don't offer any real advantage when concealing, imho.
    http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html



    Now this is good information. Thanks.

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    I own a Para Carry, 3" barrel, LDA. It is a fine weapon. The only thing to watch for is that limp wristing it will cause FTFs. This is true of all micro .45s that I have heard about. I have even used my Para Carry in competition when my full size 1911 went down right before a match. Although not as good as a full size in competition, I was still able to win a few rounds. The biggest disadvantage I found was in the shorter sight radius, but then again, most BGs are bigger targets than a bowling pin, and closer than 25'.

    According to the link provided byeyesopenedthe difference between the 5" barrel and the 3" barrel is only about 100 fps for heavy loads, and less than 200 fps for the light loads. I would be willing to bet that no one would be able to tell the difference if they were on the receiving end. The .45 Colt was considered the definitive handgun round for many years, and proved to be completely adequate as a man stopper. Check it's ballistics, they are way below what many people consider minimal today. I have not heard any reports of a 3" barreled .45 being insufficient as a man stopper.

    It's not just about velocity, you also have to consider the amount of energy, and the amount of tissue damage caused by any given gun/round combination.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Not a fan of the one shot stop but this info gives a realistic view of performance. http://www.handloads.org/misc/stoppi...amp;Weight=All
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    buster81 wrote:
    Hi folks,

    I have reason to start carrying a CCW and wanted to look at a small 1911. I know para makes a small LDA pistol in 45. Does anyone have any experience with this, or any other small 1911 specifically designed for CC?


    I ankle carry my !911 Kimber Pro TLE/RL II 4" Barrel. And ankle carry 2 (for now) mags on the opposite leg

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    I have a Colt Officer's 7+1 with no sights and a thick bull barrel. Works real good for concealed carry.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    I am a long time fan of Kimber, and I did dump a grand for a Custom Carry II.

    400 rounds later, my biggest complaint is disassembly for cleaning.

    I have no experience with other 3" .45acp autos, so take it for what it is worth.

    As far as carring a 5" .45, only means on a daily basis you have 2" more inches to cover up.

    It is my attitude, when push comes to shove, the extra 2" of barrel lenght doesn't mean squat, if you practice.

    Covering a bigger gun everyday, can be done, but I have enough on my mind.


  24. #24
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    kimber1911 wrote:
    I am a long time fan of Kimber, and I did dump a grand for a Custom Carry II.

    400 rounds later, my biggest complaint is disassembly for cleaning.

    I have no experience with other 3" .45acp autos, so take it for what it is worth.

    As far as carring a 5" .45, only means on a daily basis you have 2" more inches to cover up.

    It is my attitude, when push comes to shove, the extra 2" of barrel lenght doesn't mean squat, if you practice.

    Covering a bigger gun everyday, can be done, but I have enough on my mind.
    Thanks for the info. Did you have any failures at all in the first 400? It's been said in this thread, and I've read it elsewhere that the shorties are prone to failure. IIRC, it's due to the shorter geometry in the loading ramp. That is a nice looking Kimber.

    What's different about the disassembly procedure?

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    I think I have spoken sufficiently on my reluctance to carry a 1911 cocked and locked. However I have heard of the LDA (light double action) and am contemplating hunting for one. Proven .45 ACP stoppng power in a proven design with an extra measure of safety?? YOWZAH!! Sez me, but do any you guys have any input on the LDA??

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