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Thread: Holsters for Open Carry in Wisconsin.

  1. #1
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    So a new issue has come up for me, with all this “Open Carry” stuff, and that’s a holster.

    Thanks for the one person that I have seen on the news showing off a good rig, he had a good Black Hawk holster that has a positive restraint system (I want the same for my .38 Taurus, but can’t find it).

    I just have to remind everyone (because I never thought about it before), that for the sake of safety, a captivate restraint holster is a “must have” for open carry.

    Up until now, I have always thought that if I had to carry, I would have to hide it. I have about six good quality holsters that are made for CCW, but not open carry. I never gave it much thought, but if carried open, my holsters would give anyone behind me, full access to my gun. If I had my arms up, I think you could grab it faster then I could try to stop you…

    Thus, I ask all of you to give your holster choice a good second thought.

    Do you think, that if you pissed me off, and I caught you off guard, that you could keep me from getting your gun out of the rig? If your rig does not actively hold the gun in place, I bet I could, and I am a very small person (but fast). Well, hugh jarmis might give me a problem (I saw you on TV!), but if I got him off guard…? If I am a crack junky, and see a $600 gun, I might just have to try to take it from you. Will you have made it hard for me to do this?

    Because of the open carry “movement” in Wisconsin, I have ordered a new (still cheep) holster. It is a hi-ride, so a jacket will be a problem, but it should be a good summer holster - WITH A SNAP.

    I have a low rig for my full size 9mm, but it is a bit large for summer.

    Mind you none of this is law, at all. I just think that some good thought should go into the rig you keep your “life saver” in. It should be fast, and safe.




    Think about it. Please.

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    I have a Blackhawk Thigh rig with Dual retention, It lacks if you have to quik draw, but I dare any crackhead to grab my gun whilst the DR is in place...but yea, IMHO dual rentention is the way to go.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    AaronS wrote:
    I just have to remind everyone (because I never thought about it before), that for the sake of safety, a captivate restraint holster is a “must have” for open carry.
    There is a standing offer somewhere here on OCDO's forum of cash for documentation of a successful snatch from a legally armed open carrying citizen.

    Some have thought about 'it' before and dismissed it as excessively cautious.

    That said, my OC holster is a Blackhawk SERPA but that is my option and I reject any notion of necessity. I CCW'd Mexican, Chihuahua style for many years with no misadventures.

    Safety is the first act of security theater and the tyrant's tool. The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

  5. #5
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    Absolutely one must give particularly careful consideration when selecting a holster for open carry! Remember a high percentage of police that are shot, are shot with their own weapons. At the Onalaska picnic I was paying more attention to the rigs people wore than their firearms. I saw a lot of good rigs for concealment, or sporting purposes. Not as many people had good OC holsters suitable to carry in public. Nothing opens your eyes to the issue faster than taking a class in gun retention. Just a few things to consider when making a selection:

    1) Gun retention features.
    2) Ease of draw-- for you, not for someone trying to snatch it from you.
    3) Ease of re-holstering. If you are carrying a gun for combat, you need to be able to holster your gun one-handed. The materials and design of the holster itself count much towards this. You can't have a floppy holster that closes up on itself.
    4) Strength. Resistance to a determined struggle.
    5) Durability and quality of construction.
    6) Fit. For you, and for your gun. Is it comfortable? Does the gun fit properly in the holster?

    As a general rule, look for holsters that are made as police duty holsters. Safariland, Bianchi, Blackhwawk and others all have good stuff. Your life is certainly valuable enough to spend the cash on a quality holster. You may have difficulty finding such a holster if you carry a gun that's outside the more narrow range of what cops tend to carry-- e.g., Glock, Sig, 1911, Ruger, S&W, Beretta and so on. Likewise for revolvers, although you can almost always find a holster with a thumbbreak strap for a revolver-- bare minimum retention.

    Also make sure you get a high quality belt that fits the holster (and you!)
    A. Gold

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    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Great points Shotgun. I have to add one or two things though.

    There are certain "maneuvers" that will aid you in retaining you firearm in case someone trys to takeit, both from behind and from the front.(Witch I cannot remember the name of ether right now.) I have seen video's on u tube regarding this.

    In my opinion the level 2 and 3 retention holsters can cost you precious seconds if , God forbid, you ever have to use one.So choose wisely.

    For me I use Galco holsters and love them. Yes there are down sides to the leather but I have yet to see a perfect system. I have messed around with a few "cop" holsters and did not like the twist pull twist action to draw. I could get my gun out much quicker with my Galco.

    But no matter what holster you do choosepractice drawing ,with a UNLOADED GUN, often. This is a perishable skill. Also if you can, practice taking and retaining a UNLOADED GUN with a friend it isa good skill to master.

    This type of practice may save your life and most likely give you one up on a BG.



    Be safe and carry safe....


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    I haven't looked on youtube for weapons retention vids, but if there's anything good on there someone might wish to put a link? Not only are there techniques for front and rear grabs, but also from the ground if you've been tackled, pushed down or fell and they're right on top of you. Secondary weapons, if thoughtfully deployed, can also be usefull to fight off a gun grab attack.

    Most commonly I use a Blackhawk Serpa holster. The draw is as fast as a no retention holster.

    You're right. All gun skills are perishable. At a minimum I dry practice draws and reloads daily. Westerns to the contrary, the speed of one's draw rarely is the determining factor in an actual gunfight, but speed and smoothness combined certainly are good. The fastest draw is a gun already in the hand. Cliche, but true.

    And on the topic of gun retention, the MOST important factor is awareness.

    Oh, I should also mention that not all gun grabs are directed towards a holstered gun, and there are also a number of simple and effective techniques to restore your control of the gun if someone attempts to grab it from your hand.
    A. Gold

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    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    My retention holster is a secondary method of firearms retention. Not to be substituted for the primary method of firearm retention which is spatial awareness.

    If you are within 50 feet of me, I've already assessed who you are and probabilities of your intentions.

    LIkely the only person who'd ever be close enough to me to have a logistical advantage in accessing my firearm would be my girlfriend.

    But she is already carrying, and has no need tocommandeer my weapon.

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    That is an excellent point Nik. I have taken 3 Fire arms courses and if you count the military then 4. One thing we should all remember is to always make sure we are facing anyone who is in close proximity to us. While at some point this seems impossible. The one thing we have to remember is we have two feet. Move and make it possible. That is really the first step in weapons retention. Know who is in your personal space.

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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    LIkely the only person who'd ever be close enough to me to have a logistical advantage in accessing my firearm would be my girlfriend.
    I like you Nik, but not enough to get as close as your girlfriend does!
    A. Gold

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    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Know who is in your personal space.
    Yeah, these are good habits to get into, carrying or not. I sit in restaurants so I can see the door/rest of the place. Being observant in stores parking lots, driving. After a while it doesn't even take any extra active thought. You do it instictually.

    Auric, don't play hard to get!


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    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    Pointman wrote:
    Positive retention is important to keep your gun in the holster. Defending against a gun grab is one thing, having it suddenly fall to the floor in public is another. There's a better chance your gun will get snagged on something or somehow ride up and fall out than you actually having to use it in a defensive situation.

    Authorities said a bullet from a gun that was accidentally dropped injured a Tampa woman sitting in a bathroom stall. Police said the bullet hit 53-year-old Janifer Bliss in the lower left leg. She was taken to a hospital with minor injuries.

    Bliss was sitting on the toilet in a hotel bathroom when a woman in the next stall accidentally let her handgun slip out of her waist holster. The weapon discharged when it hit the ground.

    Police said the gun belonged to a 56-year-old woman who has a concealed weapons permit.

    The case has been referred to the State Attorney's Office to determine if any charges will be filed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJQ34JTqk0I

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    I have Safariland 6377 ALS Retention system holsters for both my 1911 and S&W M&P. When I chose to carry suppressed, my Hogue Powerspeed holster has a locking retention latch on it as well.

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    springfield 1911 wrote:
    Bliss was sitting on the toilet in a hotel bathroom when a woman in the next stall accidentally let her handgun slip out of her waist holster. The weapon discharged when it hit the ground.
    I wouldn't want my weapon discharging if it hit the ground.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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    protias wrote:
    springfield 1911 wrote:
    Bliss was sitting on the toilet in a hotel bathroom when a woman in the next stall accidentally let her handgun slip out of her waist holster. The weapon discharged when it hit the ground.
    I wouldn't want my weapon discharging if it hit the ground.
    A good firearm shouldn't.

    Question... Why did they refer to this as a weapon and not what it is, a firearm?

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    Woodchuck wrote:
    A good firearm shouldn't.

    Question... Why did they refer to this as a weapon and not what it is, a firearm?
    Considering firearms need to survive the drop test, I am still very surprised it discharged.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    protias wrote:
    Woodchuck wrote: Considering firearms need to survive the drop test, I am still very surprised it discharged.
    Could have been a cheapo Lorcin or other saturday night special. Maybe she carried a revolver hammer cocked and something broke and it discharged. Without knowing what she was carrying its all guess work. Though the point is taken that I am very surprised it discharged.

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    Yeah that sounds wierd! first off a gun "falling" out of a holster and then "going off". reminds me of plaxico buress, Glocks don't just go off, they have that little trigger in the trigger lol. He pulled the fuckin trigger LMAO what an IDIOT. Wish he woulda doen that before the giants beat us in the playoffs a couple years ago.

    But in all sincerety I would definately use an active retention holster! I only own one that doesn't have an active retention system. I call that my combat holster.



    Ben

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    I use a Safariland 6280 with my S&W K-Frame.

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    I have a several holsters for my Glocks.

    Safariland ALS style
    This is considered a Level III retention... you have a hood over the thumb break lever, you have to push the thumb break down to tilt it forward, then you have to push the gun down and back in order to get the gun out... at first this system feels very slow, but with practice I have greatly reduced the draw time. You have a better chance of taking my pants off than you do of a gun grab with this holster.

    Pros - retention
    Cons - heavy, slower draw, cost ($90)

    Safariland 6204 Thigh Holster
    I bought this gun mostly to open carry my pistol while hunting. It's similar to the ALS model, however, you do do not have to push the gun down. Retention is handled by the thumb break, which needs to be pushed down before moving forward. It also has a hood over the thumb break, but I have removed it.

    Pros - retention, lower so it works with winter closes.
    Cons - cost ($120), bulky

    Blackhawk SEPRA (paddle)

    This is my main open carry holster, it has single level retention, it's light, easy to remove with practice. There are little hooks that hold it to your belt/pants, if you attempt to pull the entire holster off it will be stuck to something.

    Pros - light, skinny, cost
    Cons - single level retention



    I also have several Comp-Tac C-TAC (kydex w/ leather supports) inside the waist band holsters for concealed carry. I really like these holsters, I have one for both my G23 & my G30. These are my preferred means of carry. I've heard lots of good things about the Milt Sparks IWB holster (leather), but I can't image how much better than my CTAC it is to justify the $100+ price tag...

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