News column questions whether Mayor Nickels understands the concept of open carry

Mike · May 28, 2009

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http://www.examiner.com/x-4525-Seattle-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m5d28-Seattle-mayor-gun-activists-in-stalemate

SNIP

Nickels does not like concealed carry, putting him on the same level as Barack Obama, who told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review last year that he also opposes concealed carry. The Seattle mayor would probably suffer cardiac arrest if he were to drive down I-5 and find an Open Carry group cleaning up the highway shoulder. The Seattle Weekly did a story on open carry, that can be read here.
Open carry is legal in Washington, always has been. Police agencies and sheriffs departments understand this and seem to respect it – while dutifully responding to all “man with a gun” calls to 911 – so one wonders how it is that a public official can’t grasp it. Even an official like Nickels, who was born in Chicago and moved to Washington at age 6, ought to understand that.

Tawnos · May 28, 2009

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Dave, one thing to note about your article - Open carry has not always been legal in Washington. Concealed carry, however, has been shall issue here for as long as I can find data.

Many counties still exempt themselves from 9.41.050(4) (using (6)), which clearly no longer makes sense. That was addressed in this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/23714.html

Quoting Gene Beasley's post (with my own emphasis):

From 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 405:

Sec. 405. RCW 9.41.050 and 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 s 3 are each amended to read as follows:
(1) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed ((weapon)) pistol.
(2) ((A person who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(3))) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed ((weapon)) pistol and: (a) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (b) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (c) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(3) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(4) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, no person may carry a firearm unless it is unloaded and enclosed in an opaque case or secure wrapper or the person is:
(a) Licensed under RCW 9.41.070 to carry a concealed pistol;
(b) In attendance at a hunter's safety course or a firearms safety course;
(c) Engaging in practice in the use of a firearm or target shooting at an established range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which such range is located or any other area where the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited;
(d) Engaging in an organized competition involving the use of a firearm, or participating in or practicing for a performance by an organized group that uses firearms as a part of the performance;
(e) Hunting or trapping under a valid license issued to the person under Title 77 RCW;
(f) In an area where the discharge of a firearm is permitted, and is not trespassing;
(g) Traveling with any unloaded firearm in the person's possession to or from any activity described in (b), (c), (d), (e), or (f) of this subsection, except as provided in (h) of this subsection;
(h) Traveling in a motor vehicle with a firearm, other than a pistol, that is unloaded and locked in the trunk or other compartment of the vehicle, secured in a gun rack, or otherwise secured in place in a vehicle;
(i) On real property under the control of the person or a relative of the person;
(j) At his or her residence;
(k) Is a member of the armed forces of the United States, national guard, or organized reserves, when on duty;
(l) Is a law enforcement officer; or
(m) Carrying a firearm from or to a vehicle for the purpose of taking or removing the firearm to or from a place of business for repair.
(5) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.
(6) Any city, town, or county may enact an ordinance to exempt itself from the prohibition of subsection (4) of this section.

Essentially, at the time, open carry at ALL required a CPL. I also think there was another provision that said "nothing in this section shall authorize the open carrying of pistols or other weapons", but I do not recall where this is (nor remember how to look up the history - Gene)?

Dave Workman · May 28, 2009

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Yes, that was the Mike Lowry gun bill. He was a one-term governor, and the law was repealed almost immediately when Locke became governor because county prosecutors made it clear they could not enforce that statute.

Before and after, Washington was an OC state and even DURING the lifetime of that statute, we were still an OC state, it's just that nobody challenged the law. The legislature, in its wisdom, undid the stupidity of the ex-governor.

FMCDH · May 28, 2009

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Tawnos wrote:

Dave, one thing to note about your article - Open carry has not always been legal in Washington. Concealed carry, however, has been shall issue here for as long as I can find data.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States

According to this Wiki article, Washington State is the original Shall Issue, even though Florida made it popular. Good read, but as usual, some things are not accurate.

In 39 concealed-carry states, issuing officials may not arbitrarily deny a concealed-carry application, a practice known as Florida-style "shall issue". It is so named because Florida gained national attention for adopting this policy in 1987, leading to citizens of other states advocating similar measures, even though this practice had been adopted in Washington state in 1961.[10]

Dave Workman · May 28, 2009

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Right you are about shall issue in Washington.
CCW first became law in 1935 and prior to that, most anybody who wanted to pack a gun just packed a gun. But in those days, it was considered to be the low-life vermin who carried a concealed handgun.

I think FL grabbed the spotlight because of some, uh, pushy PR to make it seem like the Sunshine State was first out of the gate, and the same thing happened with state preemption. Washington passed its preemption statute initially in 1983, nearly a decade before such laws became fashionable.

kparker · May 28, 2009

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Dave,

I think the bigger part of Florida's reputation comes from the fact that their new concealed-carry law was accompanied by a huge nationwide media circus; I was only in first or second grade when our CC regulation was passed here in WA but I doubt it was comparable in terms of notoriety.

News column questions whether Mayor Nickels understands the concept of open carry

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