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Thread: I searched but to no avail... "checkpoints"

  1. #1
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    I was driving over to my girl’s place last night and on Holland Road, just south of HWY 264, in the south-bound lane (I was headednorth-bound),the VBPD had a checkpoint set up. This was about 7pm and they had a bright neon-green sign that read “Please have drivers license and registration ready”. There was about a 200 car back-up and they had maybe 15 officers.

    My question is: Do we have to show DL and Reg. even if it is a checkpoint like that (non-DUI checkpoint)? Not really OC-related, but since I was OC-ing it really came into my mind as to what to do. I wasted about 2 hours of my life and my employer’s time today (thankfully we can surf the internet here at work, hehehe!) searching the VA Code 46.2, DMV websiteand also searched this site, but nothing was conclusive as far as answering my question in regards of "having to provide DL & REG" in a non-traffic offense stop.


    ME: Evening officer, how may I help you?

    LEO at checkpoint: May I see your DL & REG?

    ME: I have not committed a traffic offense, but I would gladly pull over to the side so you can read my license plate and run the plate and that I am the registered owner of this vehicle and you will see my picture and name in the DMV file and therefore do not consent to showing my papers since I have not committed any wrong doings.

    Thoughts? Or am I reading too much into this? Or you can just delete/move this and tell me to bugger off!


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    If I remember correctly, you MUST provide a drivers license at the request of a LEO when operating a motor vehicle. This applies to the driver, not the passengers.

    No duty to inform that you're carrying, no reason to do anything more than crack the window so you can slip the LEO your documents.

  3. #3
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    Given that "sobriety" checkpoints have been found to be reasonable under the law. It seems that one who is lawfully stopped must abide by § 46.2-104. Possession of registration cards; exhibiting registration card and licenses; failure to carry license or registration card.
    ...The owner or operator of any motor vehicle, trailer, or semitrailer shall stop on the signal of any law-enforcement officer who is in uniform or shows his badge or other sign of authority and shall, on the officer's request, exhibit his registration card, driver's license, learner's permit, or temporary driver's permit and write his name in the presence of the officer, if so required, for the purpose of establishing his identity...
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  4. #4
    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Palmer v. Virginia Court of Appeals case references a document published by the Virginia State Police called MEMORANDUM #20 that sets forth the state-wide policy for establishing and conducting checkpoints.

    I just can't find a copy of MEMORANDUM #20 on-line. Perhaps someone else can.

    I recall reading, though have not been able to find the source, that drivers must be given the opportunity to avoid the checkpoint. I.e. a sign must be placed before the last exit/intersection before the checkpoint notifying drivers that there is a checkpoint ahead. I have also read, though I do not have the source, that advanced notice must be provided to the general public of the planned checkpoint. In Loudoun County, there is usually something in the newspaper or on the government website about upcoming checkpoints. I have also witnessed signs at the preceding intersections notifying drivers of a checkpoint ahead on Rt. 28 in Loudoun County.

    The Chesapeake, Va. Police policy manual contains a policy pertaining to checkpoints, though the one about the sign isn't in there. Give it a read at http://www.chesapeake.va.us/services...icy_manual.pdf

    It's policy number 2.4.14.



  5. #5
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    Dang it Bullseye! Where were you before I wasted my afternoon... well... didn't really feel like working anyways! I started at the beginning of 46.2, but I must have skipped that one too quickly. Thank you!

  6. #6
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    Restraints on police use of roadblocks* are more commonly found among court opinions. There are a number of court opinions, federal and, I'm guessing, state, on the subject.

    I came across a number of them looking for info on 4A rights.

    You might check one of the court opinion websites and type "roadblock" and "checkpoint" into the search feature.

    You can try this one for a start: http://supreme.justia.com/

    Also, there is information on roadblocks here: https://www.checkpointusa.org/



    Without knowing the score, my plan is to comply while refusing consent.Just being very careful not to lose my driver's license over refusing consent to a breathalyzer or blood test.


    *I try to avoid usingthe government's public-relations spin terminology, "checkpoint." If you are one of the cars stopped, its aroadblock.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Increased font size for those who don't wear microscopes for eyeglasses.

    DocDaddy wrote:
    I was driving over to my girl’s place last night and on Holland Road, just south of HWY 264, in the south-bound lane (I was headednorth-bound),the VBPD had a checkpoint set up. This was about 7pm and they had a bright neon-green sign that read “Please have drivers license and registration ready”. There was about a 200 car back-up and they had maybe 15 officers.

    My question is: Do we have to show DL and Reg. even if it is a checkpoint like that (non-DUI checkpoint)? Not really OC-related, but since I was OC-ing it really came into my mind as to what to do. I wasted about 2 hours of my life and my employer’s time today (thankfully we can surf the internet here at work, hehehe!) searching the VA Code 46.2, DMV websiteand also searched this site, but nothing was conclusive as far as answering my question in regards of "having to provide DL & REG" in a non-traffic offense stop.


    ME: Evening officer, how may I help you?

    LEO at checkpoint: May I see your DL & REG?

    ME: I have not committed a traffic offense, but I would gladly pull over to the side so you can read my license plate and run the plate and that I am the registered owner of this vehicle and you will see my picture and name in the DMV file and therefore do not consent to showing my papers since I have not committed any wrong doings.

    Thoughts? Or am I reading too much into this? Or you can just delete/move this and tell me to bugger off!


  8. #8
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Increased font size for those who don't wear microscopes for eyeglasses.

    DocDaddy wrote:
    I was driving over to my girl’s place last night and on Holland Road, just south of HWY 264, in the south-bound lane (I was headednorth-bound),the VBPD had a checkpoint set up. This was about 7pm and they had a bright neon-green sign that read “Please have drivers license and registration ready”. There was about a 200 car back-up and they had maybe 15 officers.

    My question is: Do we have to show DL and Reg. even if it is a checkpoint like that (non-DUI checkpoint)? Not really OC-related, but since I was OC-ing it really came into my mind as to what to do. I wasted about 2 hours of my life and my employer’s time today (thankfully we can surf the internet here at work, hehehe!) searching the VA Code 46.2, DMV websiteand also searched this site, but nothing was conclusive as far as answering my question in regards of "having to provide DL & REG" in a non-traffic offense stop.


    ME: Evening officer, how may I help you?

    LEO at checkpoint: May I see your DL & REG?

    ME: I have not committed a traffic offense, but I would gladly pull over to the side so you can read my license plate and run the plate and that I am the registered owner of this vehicle and you will see my picture and name in the DMV file and therefore do not consent to showing my papers since I have not committed any wrong doings.

    Thoughts? Or am I reading too much into this? Or you can just delete/move this and tell me to bugger off!

    How do you know it wasn't a DUI check point? The two times I have been thru a "check point" they weren't labeled one way or the other.

    This link proved to be informational

    http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinio...tx/2512943.txt

    Chaulk

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Increased font size for those who don't wear microscopes for eyeglasses.
    Heh, I just hit Control-Mousewheelup without even thinking about it.

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    virginiatuck wrote:
    I recall reading, though have not been able to find the source, that drivers must be given the opportunity to avoid the checkpoint.
    Man, I would love to know that source! I got stopped at a checkpoint last weekend and got 2 tickets. It'd be nice to have an argument in court...

  11. #11
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    Are you sure you didn't have the opportunity to avoid it? As far as I can remember, I've always had a chance to turn before I entered a checkpoint. In fact, the last one I approached, which was about a month or so ago, I turned off a block before the checkpoint, and a LEO directed me through the turn with his waving flashlight and all.

    ~ Boyd

  12. #12
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    Nope. I pulled down the road, and by the time I saw the lights, there was a line of cars behind me. I thought about crossing the median, but figured they'd come after me for avoiding it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    More info... legal driving maneuvers to avoid a checkpoint do not justify a stop. Crossing the median is not legal. A legal u-turn, however, would not justify a traffic stop.

    http://www.iihs.org/laws/checkpoints.html

    Virginia Upheld under state and federal Constitution. Lowe v. Commonwealth, 337 S.E.2d 273 (Va. 1985), cert. den., 475 U.S. 1084 (1986). See also, Crandol v. City of Newport News, 386 S.E.2d 113 (Va. 1989); Simmons v. Commonwealth, 380 S.E.2d 656 (Va. 1989); Hall v. Commonwealth, 406 S.E.2d 674 (Va. App. 1991); Thomas v. Commonwealth, 473 S.E.2d 87 (Va. App. 1996). Deviation in checkpoint location, as stated in plan, will not invalidate the checkpoint. Sheppard v. Commonwealth, 489 S.E.2d 714 (Va. App. 1997). Legal driving maneuvers that reverse a driver's course toward a checkpoint do not justify a stop, Bass v. Commonwealth, 525 S.E.2d 921 (Va. 2000). See also, Murphy v. Commonwealth, 384 S.E. 2d 125 (Va. App. 1989). Certain avoidance maneuvers do justify a stop, Commonwealth v. Eaves, 408 S.E. 2d 925 (Va. App. 1991); Stroud v. Commonwealth, 370 S.E. 2d 721 (Va. App. 1988); Brown v. Commonwealth, 440 S.E, 2d 619 (Va. App. 1994).


    What we need to find is memorandum #20 from the Virginia State Police. That memo outlines a state-wide standard for checkpoints/roadblocks.

    I am wondering now, does this thread have any value related to firearms anymore?

  14. #14
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    Probably not...

    Would it help if I said that this stop was my first OC/LEO encounter?

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    cafemonkey wrote:
    virginiatuck wrote:
    I recall reading, though have not been able to find the source, that drivers must be given the opportunity to avoid the checkpoint.
    Man, I would love to know that source! I got stopped at a checkpoint last weekend and got 2 tickets. It'd be nice to have an argument in court...
    I can imagine them putting a tiny little sign at the last turn-off point, and saying, "Hey we warned 'em!".

  16. #16
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    cafemonkey wrote:
    Probably not...

    Would it help if I said that this stop was my first OC/LEO encounter?
    Works for me.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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