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Thread: Signal Hill Park in Manassas

  1. #1
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    Is Signal Hill park in Manassas a state park thereby making it concealed only?? Or do I have the option of OC??

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Google is your friend....try "Signal Hill Park"

    http://www.cityofmanassaspark.us/pub...arksrec/signal
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    beradcee wrote:
    Is Signal Hill park in Manassas a state park thereby making it concealed only?? Or do I have the option of OC??
    Wouldn't "State Park" be the operative phrase, mean the laws of VA apply, so OC or CC w/CHP? It's the "National Parks" that will allow CC only IAW state laws starting in Feb 2010.
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    From the DCR FAQ site,http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/faq.shtml

    Firearms:[/b] Law enforcement officers and those with a concealed weapons permit may carry firearms. During hunts, hunters may have firearms, which should be unloaded and properly stored when outside designated hunt areas. Target shooting is prohibited. Air guns are prohibited.

    Also, from http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/hunting.shtml





    [*]Loaded firearms are prohibited except in designated hunting areas. (Those with a valid concealed weapons permit may carry loaded firearms.) [*]Firearms may be carried through designated non-hunting areas of specific state parks to gain access to public hunting areas. Firearms should remain unloaded, cased and secured in a vehicle at all other times. (Those with a valid concealed weapons permit may carry loaded firearms.)

    Whether or not you must carry concealed is not really addressed. It just says if you have a CHP you can carry in a State park. If you don't have a CHP, you can't carry in a State park. City, County, and Regional parks it is okay to carry openly without a CHP or carry concealed with a CHP. (preemption, doncha know?)

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    there have been several discussions about open carry in state park, but the VAC still says concealed handguns...

    4VAC5-30-200
    No person except employees, police officers, or officers of the department shall carry or possess firearms of any description, or airguns, within the park. This regulation shall not apply in areas designated for hunting by the Department of Conservation and Recreation. This regulation also shall not apply to the carrying of concealed handguns within state parks by holders of a valid concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to ยง 18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.

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    Thanks for finding that, Colt.

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    Attorney General says OC legal in state parks.

    http://www.vaag.com/OPINIONS/2008opn...Cuccinelli.pdf

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    Jonesy wrote:
    Attorney General says OC legal in state parks.

    http://www.vaag.com/OPINIONS/2008opn...Cuccinelli.pdf
    OPINION is the key word in there. Just because the AG has an opinion does not make it ok. Lots of people with authority have opinions that don't mean jack. Thank you all for your help.

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    beradcee wrote:
    Jonesy wrote:
    Attorney General says OC legal in state parks.

    http://www.vaag.com/OPINIONS/2008opn...Cuccinelli.pdf
    OPINION is the key word in there. Just because the AG has an opinion does not make it ok. Lots of people with authority have opinions that don't mean jack. Thank you all for your help.
    That's very true, however, The AG is the legal adviser for the Commonwealth. Kaine has chosen to ignore that advise... but the horses ass will be gone soon.

    In a press conference call with McDowell, I asked him point blank, if he would enforce his opinion and make the Department conform. He answered that the AG's opinion was an opinion of the law and as Governor he would make the Departments conform to Virginia law.

    I didn't like that answer so I asked if that was a yes, no or maybe. He said it was a yes.

    So there is hope !

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    And since I'm always asking "What's the punishment for violating that rule?" it appears that a violation of State Park Regulations would be a Class 3 misdemeanor, which carries a maximum fine of $500.

    ~ Boyd

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    TexasNative wrote:
    And since I'm always asking "What's the punishment for violating that rule?" it appears that a violation of State Park Regulations would be a Class 3 misdemeanor, which carries a maximum fine of $500.

    ~ Boyd
    I never look at that Boyd. I'd never consider breaking a law.:P

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    peter nap wrote:
    I never look at that Boyd. I'd never consider breaking a law.:P
    I appreciate your point , but that's not what I'm saying.

    Usually when we talk about the Virginia Administrative Code, it's concerning carrying on state college campuses. While they may have a rule or regulation (VAC doesn't contain laws, as far as I know) against non-student non-employees carrying on their campuses, the only punishment they can mete out is administrative. So this means that while they can fire an employee or expel a student, there's not a lot they can do if you're not in one of those categories.

    For instance, at George Mason, they prohibit you from possessing or carrying any weapon on their campus (8VAC35-60-20). It appears that they say that all they can do if you violate this prohibition is tell you to leave the campus, and I presume your refusal at that point could result in a trespassing charge. The same holds true at VCU (8VAC90-10-150).

    So this is why I'm always looking to see what the punishment is for a "violation" of the Virginia Administrative Code. For carrying on state college campuses, it appears to me to be a non-issue, even at the feared VCU. On the other hand, there's a specific statutory penalty for violating Virginia's State Park Regulations.

    Information is power and all that.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    You missed my sh!% eating grin while I was typing

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    It would seem that if someone was willing to OC there and got charged, they could fight the charge and maybe have the regulation declared unconstitutional or otherwise invalid. You could use the AG opinion as support. Downside if you lose is a misdemeanor charge with $500 max fine and attorney fees.

    I wonder if a prosecutor would go forward with a charge, maybe realizing the regulation is invalid.

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    Jonesy wrote:
    It would seem that if someone was willing to OC there and got charged, they could fight the charge and maybe have the regulation declared unconstitutional or otherwise invalid. You could use the AG opinion as support. Downside if you lose is a misdemeanor charge with $500 max fine and attorney fees.

    I wonder if a prosecutor would go forward with a charge, maybe realizing the regulation is invalid.
    You volunteering Jonsey?

    Oh...prosecutors are prosecutors because they aren't smart enough to make a living as lawyers. They are more like mad dogs that bite everything that moves.

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    I cant find anyting listing Signal Hill Park as a state park. Does that make it a county or city park? The website says nothing of being a state park, and it is not listed in the state park directory. It would appear to me that only Mason Neck, Lessylvania, and Lake Anna State Parks are the only state parks in northern Virginia. In any case, I WILL be OCing at Signal Hill today. I will let everyone know if I need any legal counseling when I am done.

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    beradcee wrote:
    I cant find anyting listing Signal Hill Park as a state park. Does that make it a county or city park? The website says nothing of being a state park, and it is not listed in the state park directory. It would appear to me that only Mason Neck, Lessylvania, and Lake Anna State Parks are the only state parks in northern Virginia. In any case, I WILL be OCing at Signal Hill today. I will let everyone know if I need any legal counseling when I am done.
    Signal Hill Park is listed on theCity of Manassas Park Parks and Rec website at: http://www.cityofmanassaspark.us/Pub...arksRec/signal

    IMHO it would be a city park not state.
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    Wolf_shadow wrote:
    beradcee wrote:
    I cant find anyting listing Signal Hill Park as a state park. Does that make it a county or city park? The website says nothing of being a state park, and it is not listed in the state park directory. It would appear to me that only Mason Neck, Lessylvania, and Lake Anna State Parks are the only state parks in northern Virginia. In any case, I WILL be OCing at Signal Hill today. I will let everyone know if I need any legal counseling when I am done.
    Signal Hill Park is listed on theCity of Manassas Park Parks and Rec website at: http://www.cityofmanassaspark.us/Pub...arksRec/signal

    IMHO it would be a city park not state.


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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Wolf_shadow wrote:
    beradcee wrote:
    I cant find anyting listing Signal Hill Park as a state park. Does that make it a county or city park? The website says nothing of being a state park, and it is not listed in the state park directory. It would appear to me that only Mason Neck, Lessylvania, and Lake Anna State Parks are the only state parks in northern Virginia. In any case, I WILL be OCing at Signal Hill today. I will let everyone know if I need any legal counseling when I am done.
    Signal Hill Park is listed on theCity of Manassas Park Parks and Rec website at: http://www.cityofmanassaspark.us/Pub...arksRec/signal

    IMHO it would be a city park not state.


    I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to myself.
    Sorry Pro thought I read all but missed your post.
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  20. #20
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    beradcee wrote:
    I cant find anyting listing Signal Hill Park as a state park. Does that make it a county or city park? The website says nothing of being a state park, and it is not listed in the state park directory. It would appear to me that only Mason Neck, Lessylvania, and Lake Anna State Parks are the only state parks in northern Virginia. In any case, I WILL be OCing at Signal Hill today. I will let everyone know if I need any legal counseling when I am done.
    how did your trip go? I ended up out there with the kids yesterday late afternoon (CC). If you have young kids that still love playgrounds, byrd park in Manassas is a great park.

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    No signs, nothing said by anyone including park employees, no screaming soccer moms or blood in the streets. A great day to be at the park.

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