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Thread: White cop shoots Black cop

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    http://www.newsday.com/news/printedi...0,895793.story

    newsday.com

    10:37 PM EDT, May 29, 2009

    Police conduct an investigation on 125th Street between 1st and 2nd Avenues after NYPD officials say an off-duty cop was mistaken for a criminal and fatally shot by a fellow officer. (Photo by Charles Eckert / May 29, 2009)




    In the last minutes of his life, Omar Edwards lay handcuffed in the middle of Harlem's East 125th Street on Thursday, felled by bullets Officer Andrew Dunton fired after Edwards turned toward Dunton without lowering his gun, police said Friday.

    Emergency Services officers cut open Edwards' white shirt. They found a Police Academy T-shirt and a shield and identification in his pants pocket.

    "10-13!" an officer at the scene screamed into his radio. "Officer down! Officer down!"

    Edwards, 25, a two-year rookie, was rushed to Harlem Hospital Center, where he died


    Friday, the fallout from the tragedy unfolded, with 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement Who Care calling for an independent prosecutor and the Rev. Al Sharpton blasting the latest tragedy involving a black officer shot by another officer, in this case a white man.

    "Can police investigate themselves fairly and partially?" asked Sharpton, who called for a federal investigation. "It would seem very difficult at best and unlikely in fact."

    NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly visited Edwards' family in Brooklyn on Friday night, calling the shooting a "terrible tragedy."

    "Commissioner Kelly, when does it stop?" Mikki Blue, 50, called to Kelly as he left.

    On his weekly radio show Friday morning, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the investigation is early and part of the probe will be reviewing any security videotape and interviewing witnesses who the mayor said were present "from a distance and at night."

    "The bottom line is Omar Edwards is gone," Bloomberg said. He later added, "Something went horribly wrong."

    Police, meanwhile, would not address the actions of Edwards or Dunton, a four-year veteran who was stripped of his gun and placed on desk duty. Police also would not discuss race. The officer and sergeant with Dunton, who were also white, were allowed to keep their guns, though both also are on desk duty.

    Sources said the NYPD urges off-duty officers not to chase a suspect unless the suspect is armed, but instead to call 911.

    Dunton did not appear to be in a position to come up behind Edwards, police sources said. Police said Dunton identified himself as an officer and told Edwards to "drop the gun." Police said Edwards did not identify himself and turned toward Dunton with his gun drawn.

    Police said Dunton took cover behind his unmarked car's passenger side door and fired six times. Edwards was struck in the left arm, the left side, where the bullet lodged in his abdomen, and the left back, where the bullet lodged in his chest.

    Dunton fired from about 15 feet, Browne said, but it was not clear from what angle, and it is possible Edwards was struck in the back after the other bullets spun him around.

    Sources said the investigation will focus on Dunton's tactics and how he and his partners approached Edwards. Dunton, 30, of Ridge, had never fired his gun on duty before, police said.

    As misfortune would have it, Edwards' last shift patrolling housing projects in East Harlem ended early, just before 10:30 p.m. He had been given permission to leave because he was planning a trip with family.

    Edwards approached his Nissan at Second Avenue and East 124th Street and saw Miguel Santiago, 43, who has served prison time on drug and grand larceny auto charges, rummaging through it, police said.

    The two struggled, police said, and Santiago broke free, running north to East 125th Street. As the chase continued, Dunton and his partners, of the 25th Precinct's anti-crime team, jumped out of their car in plainclothes Santiago ran past them, followed by a man with a gun.

    Dunton's partners grabbed Santiago after the shooting. He was charged with petty larceny, auto stripping and resisting arrest and was treated for withdrawal symptoms at a hospital.

    "I don't know what to say about the police force," Edwards' father, Ricardo Edwards, said at his home Friday night. "They are here to help us, but they are destroying each other

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    Thanks for posting. At first glance it would seem off-topic for the forum. But it does highlight something about tactics.

    Massad Ayoob has written on this sort of thing--cop shoots cop, not realizing he is shooting a cop.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Citizen wrote:
    Thanks for posting. At first glance it would seem off-topic for the forum. But it does highlight something about tactics.

    Massad Ayoob has written on this sort of thing--cop shoots cop, not realizing he is shooting a cop.
    We need to ban cops reflexively shooting anyone with a gun. This story clearly illustrates the greatest danger OC'ers face.

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    Pagan wrote:
    Emergency Services officers cut open Edwards' white shirt. They found a Police Academy T-shirt and a shield and identification in his pants pocket.

    "10-13!" an officer at the scene screamed into his radio. "Officer down! Officer down!"
    Pity they don't shriek the same alarm when they shoot a non-cop.

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    A good example of when ordereed by police to drop your gun then follow their orders whether right or wrong. Also reminds me of this BS CCW badge that you can buy anywhere. When 3 officers have their guns pointing at you don't try to explain just hit the ground and start digging. You can talk later and if needed in court.

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    Another thing I found interesting about the shooting, is that the off duty cop was CHASING an unarmed man, and he was ARMED. Is this not illegal? You can not shoot an unarmed person, when they are not trying to hurt or kill you,am I correct?

    The suspect was running away, not acting as a threat, it seems to me the cop that got shot ,was killed because HE was breaking the law and to the other cops, he appearded to want to kill the man he was chasing.

    And yes shooting people just for having a gun is not right, but if you point your weapon at me, you get what you get.

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    Oh God. The rabid racist Al Sharpton is out heading the charge. Gotta wonder why he never seems to waste any energy when the reverse is the case. Gee, could it be another case of minority racism?

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    A tragedy, no doubt. But as said above, regardless of who you are, when confronted by armed police, telling you to drop the gun and/or get down, just do it. You can always sue later, but it is rather difficult to do so when dead.

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    It's called "escalation of force". The off-duty cop that was shot was most certainly breaking the law while chasing down an unarmed theif that was obviously no threat since he was trying to escape and evade. (Though NY has rediculous laws, so maybe not)

    Provided the story is true: Escalation of force was also the reason that hewas shot himself, it washis own fault. As pagan said, you point a weapon at me or just in my general direction, or even motion that you're about to, and you get what you get.

    I know the military teaches all their people that in a rescue situation, or simply when your fellow service members don't know who you are; you get down and out of the way and comply to their demands for your own safety. Surely LEOs have similar training that this officer neglected. IMO if he would've used his training and common sense he would still be alive.

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    AZkopper wrote:
    A tragedy, no doubt. But as said above, regardless of who you are, when confronted by armed police, telling you to drop the gun and/or get down, just do it. You can always sue later, but it is rather difficult to do so when dead.
    Unfortunately, with the advent of Criminals claiming to be cops as they break down your door for a home invasion robbery we find that we no longer spasmodically drop to the ground but rather look to defend ourselves....

    Tragic, Absolutely....


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    JoeSparky wrote:
    AZkopper wrote:
    A tragedy, no doubt. But as said above, regardless of who you are, when confronted by armed police, telling you to drop the gun and/or get down, just do it. You can always sue later, but it is rather difficult to do so when dead.
    Unfortunately, with the advent of Criminals claiming to be cops as they break down your door for a home invasion robbery we find that we no longer spasmodically drop to the ground but rather look to defend ourselves....

    Tragic, Absolutely....

    This ain't the movies. If three BG's are holding guns on you and tell you to get down it is wise to do it. While on the ground you might figure out some defense but about the only one fast enough to take all three out at one time is Steven Segal.

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    Pagan wrote:
    it seems to me the cop that got shot ,was killed because HE was breaking the law and to the other cops, he appearded to want to kill the man he was chasing.
    That, and cops all too often have itchy trigger fingers.

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    marshaul wrote:
    Pagan wrote:
    it seems to me the cop that got shot ,was killed because HE was breaking the law and to the other cops, he appearded to want to kill the man he was chasing.
    That, and cops all too often have itchy trigger fingers.
    I wonder if there is any correlation between cops with itchy trigger fingers and cops who think its dangerous for citizens to possess defensive sidearms.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    Pagan wrote:
    it seems to me the cop that got shot ,was killed because HE was breaking the law and to the other cops, he appearded to want to kill the man he was chasing.
    That, and cops all too often have itchy trigger fingers.
    I wonder if there is any correlation between cops with itchy trigger fingers and cops who think its dangerous for citizens to possess defensive sidearms.
    There is, and it's called "projection".

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    smoking357 wrote:
    Pagan wrote:
    Emergency Services officers cut open Edwards' white shirt. They found a Police Academy T-shirt and a shield and identification in his pants pocket.

    "10-13!" an officer at the scene screamed into his radio. "Officer down! Officer down!"
    Pity they don't shriek the same alarm when they shoot a non-cop.
    I'm also a bit disturbed by the implication that being a cop somehow proves innocence...

    Officer Down.... There is no evidence to suggest it here, but, can one not shoot a Police Officer in self-defense, if said officer is attempting to kill you? How will the story read if you do nothing and let him kill you? The badge doesn't make it ok...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    ixtow wrote:
    smoking357 wrote:
    Pagan wrote:
    Emergency Services officers cut open Edwards' white shirt. They found a Police Academy T-shirt and a shield and identification in his pants pocket.

    "10-13!" an officer at the scene screamed into his radio. "Officer down! Officer down!"
    Pity they don't shriek the same alarm when they shoot a non-cop.
    I'm also a bit disturbed by the implication that being a cop somehow proves innocence...

    Officer Down.... There is no evidence to suggest it here, but, can one not shoot a Police Officer in self-defense, if said officer is attempting to kill you? How will the story read if you do nothing and let him kill you? The badge doesn't make it ok...
    First off, this tragedy is a very rare occurrence. Second, those of you who have never been in Law Enforcement have no idea how horrific it is to realize you have just shot a brother officer. I am well awaare that there are bad LEOs, but if you are an LEO you know damn well that most of the bad guys would love to take your shield and shove it up your ass for the bragging rights. It is not so much the special powers given LEOs that make some of them such seeming bastards. It is what I have just spoken of plus go say to a party and once everybody finds out you are a cop they either treat you like a leper or start asking you for legal advice or get drunk and start challenging you. After a while your social circle consists of only fellow LEOs, and maybe the wife or GF gets anoyed and divorces or breaks up. So when a fellow officer gets shot, you FIRST attend to him and THEN when he is okay, let the system do its thing.
    For those of us common schmoe LACs, the formula is simple. When the cops arrive follow ALL instructions IMMEDIATELY and WITHOUT QUESTION. There is a 99.9999% chance you will be okay.
    As for the racial angle to this story it is bullcrap. We all bleed the same color of blood.

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    I spent much of my life in or around the City of New York. I worked part time as an officer for a suburban police department for a number of years before my full-time career (not related to LE) got started. The cops in all of the suburbs of NY refer to the NYPD as 'the real job.' Knowing what I know about being a cop, and knowing what I know about the city, I would not want the job of an NYPD Officer under any circumstances.

    No matter what most of us on this forum think of the laws of New York City, the cops there have a difficult, dangerous, underpaid, thankless job. The streets of that city are still incredibly dangerous, despite the statistics and the publicity stating otherwise. As the NYPD is one of the largest armed forces in the world, mistakes are bound to happen.

    The actions of the off-duty officerdemonstrate one thing and one thing only; that men like him are what make life tolerable for most people who live in urban areas.

    He was a man who demonstrated he that loved his city with a passion, and loved the fact that he made it liveable for his fellow citizens.

    God bless all those affected by the tragedy.


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    smoking357 wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Thanks for posting. At first glance it would seem off-topic for the forum. But it does highlight something about tactics.

    Massad Ayoob has written on this sort of thing--cop shoots cop, not realizing he is shooting a cop.
    We need to ban cops reflexively shooting anyone with a gun. This story clearly illustrates the greatest danger OC'ers face.
    NY is just deeply ingrained with anti gun phobia. I talked to one person who lived there for years and she nearly broke into tears about not being able to sleep because their neighbor had a gun.

    That culture has to rub off on the police living in it.

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