Was denied service and told I would have to leave DOL Office

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Richard6218 wrote:

amlevin wrote:

Right Wing Wacko wrote:

I tried to convince her otherwise, but it was a loosing battle, and rather than be trespassed and have the state patrol called, I left.

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If I read it correctly, the AG's opinion on preemption states that one can't be tresspassed when going about a lawful activity. The DOL offices are public areas, not the private property of the employees working there. If one of them attempts to deny you the right to go about a legal activity there, and threatens you with arrest for doing so, DO file a complaint. Don't wait for them to call the local PD or State Patrol, do so yourself. Would be good to have a copy of applicable State Law on preemption and coercion. (at least the references). This crap won't change by just talking about it. It will take complaints to the DOL and possibly the AG's office to get these "government drones" to realize they work for the public rather than the other way around.

FWIW, I have to go into the Smokey Point office once This crap won't change a year for a copy of my driver's record. Need it for my part time job. I have carried every time with no attempt to conceal and no issues.

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Here's a conundrum for you: In Ferndale the DOL office is located inside the Cost Cutter market, where I have been kicked out for OC'ing. So how would this apply if one goes to that DOL and while there on DOL business the Cost Cutter manager trespasses me? Strictly a hypothetical case but not beyond possibility. Any feedback on that?

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Do you have to cross Cost Cutter market property to get there or does the DOL have an external door? If there is an external door, then I think that since the DOL would be leasing that part of the building the property rights would fall to them and not to Cost Cutters. Therefore you wouldn't be able to be trespassed while going about your business in a legal fashion.

Same idea as Safeco field or renting a home. The person who is renting or leasing assumes the property rights.

IANAL

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kenshin wrote:

Richard6218 wrote:

amlevin wrote:

Right Wing Wacko wrote:

I tried to convince her otherwise, but it was a loosing battle, and rather than be trespassed and have the state patrol called, I left.

Click to expand...

If I read it correctly, the AG's opinion on preemption states that one can't be tresspassed when going about a lawful activity. The DOL offices are public areas, not the private property of the employees working there. If one of them attempts to deny you the right to go about a legal activity there, and threatens you with arrest for doing so, DO file a complaint. Don't wait for them to call the local PD or State Patrol, do so yourself. Would be good to have a copy of applicable State Law on preemption and coercion. (at least the references). This crap won't change by just talking about it. It will take complaints to the DOL and possibly the AG's office to get these "government drones" to realize they work for the public rather than the other way around.

FWIW, I have to go into the Smokey Point office once This crap won't change a year for a copy of my driver's record. Need it for my part time job. I have carried every time with no attempt to conceal and no issues.

Click to expand...

Here's a conundrum for you: In Ferndale the DOL office is located inside the Cost Cutter market, where I have been kicked out for OC'ing. So how would this apply if one goes to that DOL and while there on DOL business the Cost Cutter manager trespasses me? Strictly a hypothetical case but not beyond possibility. Any feedback on that?

Click to expand...

Do you have to cross Cost Cutter market property to get there or does the DOL have an external door? If there is an external door, then I think that since the DOL would be leasing that part of the building the property rights would fall to them and not to Cost Cutters. Therefore you wouldn't be able to be trespassed while going about your business in a legal fashion.

Same idea as Safeco field or renting a home. The person who is renting or leasing assumes the property rights.

IANAL

Click to expand...

Ferndale Cost Cutter Foods Licensing is an agent, not an actual DOL office.

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BIll98501 wrote:

kenshin wrote:

Richard6218 wrote:

amlevin wrote:

Right Wing Wacko wrote:

I tried to convince her otherwise, but it was a loosing battle, and rather than be trespassed and have the state patrol called, I left.

Click to expand...

If I read it correctly, the AG's opinion on preemption states that one can't be tresspassed when going about a lawful activity. The DOL offices are public areas, not the private property of the employees working there. If one of them attempts to deny you the right to go about a legal activity there, and threatens you with arrest for doing so, DO file a complaint. Don't wait for them to call the local PD or State Patrol, do so yourself. Would be good to have a copy of applicable State Law on preemption and coercion. (at least the references). This crap won't change by just talking about it. It will take complaints to the DOL and possibly the AG's office to get these "government drones" to realize they work for the public rather than the other way around.

FWIW, I have to go into the Smokey Point office once This crap won't change a year for a copy of my driver's record. Need it for my part time job. I have carried every time with no attempt to conceal and no issues.

Click to expand...

Here's a conundrum for you: In Ferndale the DOL office is located inside the Cost Cutter market, where I have been kicked out for OC'ing. So how would this apply if one goes to that DOL and while there on DOL business the Cost Cutter manager trespasses me? Strictly a hypothetical case but not beyond possibility. Any feedback on that?

Click to expand...

Do you have to cross Cost Cutter market property to get there or does the DOL have an external door? If there is an external door, then I think that since the DOL would be leasing that part of the building the property rights would fall to them and not to Cost Cutters. Therefore you wouldn't be able to be trespassed while going about your business in a legal fashion.

Same idea as Safeco field or renting a home. The person who is renting or leasing assumes the property rights.

IANAL

Click to expand...

Ferndale Cost Cutter Foods Licensing is an agent, not an actual DOL office.

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Makes sense. Come to think of it, as independent agents they charge a fee for processing thing like vehicle renewals. (Better to just mail the payment in in time and avoid the fee.) Also, the answer to the property question is that the DOL facility is inside Cost Cutter, so access is solely through Cost Cutter property.

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I understand you were not breaking any laws but I believe it is still in the right of businesses to have the right to ban weapons if they so chose. (example kitsap mall) However if so I believe they are also obligated to post this visibly and clearly. I know to if a business asks you to leave and you do not you can then be charged with criminal trespassing. Not to take sides or say you did something wrong just two things that are always in the back of my mind when I OC

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fire suppressor wrote:

I understand you were not breaking any laws but I believe it is still in the right of businesses to have the right to ban weapons if they so chose. (example kitsap mall) However if so I believe they are also obligated to post this visibly and clearly. I know to if a business asks you to leave and you do not you can then be charged with criminal trespassing. Not to take sides or say you did something wrong just two things that are always in the back of my mind when I OC

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I believe that a vast majority of us here would agree, HOWEVER:


The DOL is a state run agency (much like liquor stores). Pre-emption applies. Since DOL offices/buildings are NOT listed as prohibited in RCW 9.41.300, then the workers on site CANNOT (lawfully) eject you for carrying.

As stated before this would not apply to a privately owned/operated service agent.

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fire suppressor wrote:

I understand you were not breaking any laws but I believe it is still in the right of businesses to have the right to ban weapons if they so chose. (example kitsap mall) However if so I believe they are also obligated to post this visibly and clearly. I know to if a business asks you to leave and you do not you can then be charged with criminal trespassing. Not to take sides or say you did something wrong just two things that are always in the back of my mind when I OC

Click to expand...

fire:

You are right about businesses --- they are exercising their private property rights which may be in conflict with our 2A rights and may actually trump ours. This was discussed at length in a thread here about a year ago, and elsewhere in several places since then. There has been much made of the question of posting of signs, but from personal experience I can tell you that if a store manager wants to trespass you for ANY reason he doesn't need a sign on his door. My question in this thread was strictly hypothetical, which asked about going to a DOL office located on property of a private business, i.e. Cost Cutter. Someone pointed out, correctly, that the DOL facility in the Cost Cutter is only a private agent for DOL, though that point is a bit tangential to the main question about the private property issue with Cost Cutter. So the answer to the question about OC'ing at the DOL facility on private property seems to be Do it at your own risk of being trespassed by the property manager.