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Thread: Concealed Handgun Permit Application Question

  1. #1
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    In December of 2008 a buddy of mine and I were hunting turkey and blackpowder deer in NE. We were stopped and licensed checked - no issues. However, each of us had two rounds in magazine of shotguns stored in cases under our rear seat. Just didn't occur to me that that qualified as a "loaded" gun. Learned lesson, paid fine, moved on with life. Now I would like to get a CCP so that I can carry when my wife and I travel on motorcycle. Does this ticket disqualify me for the next 9 1/2 years?

    If so, is there anything I can do? I'm not a convict, just a computer guy who screwed up.

    If this does not disqualify me, I'm assuming that I answer the "Have you ever had any violation of any law relating to firearms..." question yes and let NSP discover the ticket? Or do I answer no since the ticket was from Game and Parks? I really need clarification.

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    ToddWilson wrote:
    In December of 2008 a buddy of mine and I were hunting turkey and blackpowder deer in NE. We were stopped and licensed checked - no issues. However, each of us had two rounds in magazine of shotguns stored in cases under our rear seat. Just didn't occur to me that that qualified as a "loaded" gun. Learned lesson, paid fine, moved on with life. Now I would like to get a CCP so that I can carry when my wife and I travel on motorcycle. Does this ticket disqualify me for the next 9 1/2 years?

    If so, is there anything I can do? I'm not a convict, just a computer guy who screwed up.

    If this does not disqualify me, I'm assuming that I answer the "Have you ever had any violation of any law relating to firearms..." question yes and let NSP discover the ticket? Or do I answer no since the ticket was from Game and Parks? I really need clarification.
    Ticket, whether from G&P's, or not, will show in the system since it's all tied to your SS No.; if you answer no and it, ticket, does show up, you can be legally considered to have given "false" information, thats more trouble than telling the truth. Contact the people who issue the premits in your state ans simply ask them the question you asked here...you'll ahve your answerr...oh, and while on the phone with them, GET THE NAME of the person you're speaking to, and write it down along with date and time.

    My question though is this; it is now unlawful to have ammo in the mag. tube of a shotgun? I ask because it's been years since having lived there, and at that time "loaded shotgun" meant a round IN the chamber, not magazine. You're certain the game laws read loaded means ammo in the magazine? Just because some game warden said it's so doesn't mean it's so?!


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    AgentX,

    Thanks for the good advice. That is what I'll do and I'll post result here.

    Not having lived in NE in several years (18 in fact) was what got me in this spot in the first place. Most recently I had lived in CO (since 1997) and have just moved back a couple of years ago. The friend who was with me (also from CO) got the same ticket as we did exactly the same thing, remove the round from the chamber, pocket it, and stick the guns into cases behind the front seat of the truck. I am certain (now) that the law states that this is considered a loaded gun as I have since looked. And I refused to sign the ticket until the Conservation Officer wrote on the ticket "two shells in magazine only".

    Maybe a good followup question should be "I know that I'm required to show my hunting license(s) to any game warden that asks, but am I required to show him/her my weapons as well? Or does this type of search require a warrant?"

    What got us in trouble is that we thought that we had done everything by the book. Do we have other weapons other than the muzzeloaders in the front seat? Sure we have shotguns behind us in cases! You want to look at them? Sure, here we'll get them out so you can take a look!



    Todd

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    ToddWilson wrote:
    AgentX,

    Thanks for the good advice. That is what I'll do and I'll post result here.

    Not having lived in NE in several years (18 in fact) was what got me in this spot in the first place. Most recently I had lived in CO (since 1997) and have just moved back a couple of years ago. The friend who was with me (also from CO) got the same ticket as we did exactly the same thing, remove the round from the chamber, pocket it, and stick the guns into cases behind the front seat of the truck. I am certain (now) that the law states that this is considered a loaded gun as I have since looked. And I refused to sign the ticket until the Conservation Officer wrote on the ticket "two shells in magazine only".

    Maybe a good followup question should be "I know that I'm required to show my hunting license(s) to any game warden that asks, but am I required to show him/her my weapons as well? Or does this type of search require a warrant?"

    What got us in trouble is that we thought that we had done everything by the book. Do we have other weapons other than the muzzeloaders in the front seat? Sure we have shotguns behind us in cases! You want to look at them? Sure, here we'll get them out so you can take a look!



    Todd
    As I recall all basic information regarding what is considered loaded and not loaded is in the basic hunting regs.; no disrespect meant here, BUT it behooves one to read those regs.: Read those regs.; if in fact they say the shell has to be in the chamber to be considered loaded then your ticket from back then was warrnatless. What you can do about it do is an uphill battle, however,your concern is if it will effect you in some other manner. Again I say, contact the proper agency/authority and pose the question to them. If in fact they tell you that you'd be denied a CC permit because of this one ticket, and, if in fact you determine, based on Nebr. game regs. that "loaded' means a shell in the chamber, but any in the magazine does not define loaded, then, and only then, you may have to do legal battle.

    As far as your question as to whether you have to show him, warden, your firearms, thisposes a unique question fromseveral aspects: Is he asking to see/search all weapons in the vehicle; the key word/phrase here is asking to see; asking, in whatever phraseology he puts it, is seeking your permission to see them, look at them or however one wants to phrase it. I would submit, after one has read and udnerstands BOTH the 4th & 5th amendment(s), of both constitution(s), state and national,respectively, that for him to do so requires a warrant; BUT, if you willingly hand them over, or tell him, go ahead and look in the vehicle you have given him "permission". Can he lawfully(constitutionally) enter your vehicle without your permission to search for loaded weapons? As a general rule, if this were a road side stop for a traffic stop I'd say no; courts ahve ruled many times that a cursory search, visual from outside the vehicle is all that is permitted in such a stop. However, you are out in the field, the stop is predicated on hunting rules/regs.; those regs. specify no loaded firearms; he therefore has, what he will claim, is probable suspicion, which leads to probable cause to search. he may indeed be required, even udner those circumstances, to obtain a search warrant; the question here for you is, IS it worth, at the moment, the literal hassle and escalated hostilities that such a demand of him, search warrant, would cause. Now, were I on the side of a highway, I, and I'm speaking personally here, tell the cop, no you may not see them.

    As much as I like to stand on my constitutional rights, I'd let him him see my firearm(s), in the truck;BUT, I would not hand it to him...in doing so I've, legally speaking, "given it to him(relinquished my possession of MY property); instead, I'd tell him, my firearms are in the truck; if you have can lawfully search my vehicle without my permission absent a warrant they are in the truck: BUT again, is it worth perhaps ruining or spoiling a day of hunting, if the guns are entirely legal??

    Now let's discuss handing your firearm, one you are holding,to a warden, or any officer that asks you to see it; remember here that they generally will always phrase their request in a manner that suggests "permissive" language, IE; may I see your....., can I see your..., let me have your....: If you hand it to him you HAVE "given" it to him; you have, in fact, relinquished your "possession of your proerty) under that narrow circumstance, I again, speaking only for myself, would take a step back, lay the piece on the ground, take two or more steps back, put my hands in my pockets(so that if in the event it escalates he cannot claim I attempted to assault him,..a wave of your hand and he can, if he wants to claim it, was an attempt at assault), and then tell him, the rifle/shotgun/pistol on laying there on the ground is my property. If he picks it up and checks it, thats one thing, but, if in the event he decides to write me a ticket, and in the process states he has the right to seize(confiscate) my piece as part of the game law violation, wodnerful, no argument(s) from me; because he jsut violated the 4th & 5th amendment(s). And he'll find himself with a civil suit for the unlawful taking of my property.

    We are told, and some game regs. state(I think) the warden can seize, under the law, the firearm..oh really? Laws(statues) must be written in "accord" with the constitution; simply stated, a law(statute) does NOT SUPERSEDE the constitution, specifically Bill of Rights. And the 4th & 5th states "they" can't take my "property" without a warrant or "due process"; when he picks it up and takes it with him he had neither a warrant(4th), and I haven't been to court,(5th...due process)and at which time a judge signed an "Order" to seize my property; a law enforcement officer does not possess judicial power(s); it takes a court order to seize your proeprty, unless, you are arrested(taken into physical custody), that changes the entire parameters of the situation. Depending on the warden you're dealing with he may nor may not pick it up:

    You must determine, entirely for yourself, and under varying circumstances, how much you feel you want to stand for your rights; in short, pick your fights judiciously. If i'm out hunting, I'm entirely legal I'm quite congenial with the few wardens I've encountered as they've always been civil, courteous and acted in a very professional manner; however, if i'm dealing with one who feelshis badge, gun and power weighing heavily on his shoulders and acts accordingly then I may likely shift gears.

    May I suggest, with all due respect, you guys out ther need to read ALL the regs. in the hunting pamphlets before you go ut, not just what the season dates are, and how many critters one can shoot. You personally have experienced the result of that failure. if you care to contact me off-site, as dealing with law and elgal matters is not answerable in a few paragraphs, write me at rwtast1@yahho.com. Be well, R.T.





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