Abortion Doctor Shot Dead in Wichita, Kan.

imported post

Liam Neeson's wife was killed by a fall on, of all things, snow.........maybe we should outlaw snow............and skiing, snow boarding, sledding and all other related activites dealing with snow...........it is for the Safety of thechildren after all...........

imported post

curtm1911 wrote:

Liam Neeson's wife was killed by a fall on, of all things, snow.........maybe we should outlaw snow............and skiing, snow boarding, sledding and all other related activites dealing with snow...........it is for the Safety of thechildren after all...........

Click to expand...

How did we get from deaths caused by murderous intent to accidental falls which cause death on snow?

Oh, yeah, it's the ole strawman argument gambit.

Never mind.

imported post

Two words, you can look up their meanings yourself; IE: Research........

Sarcasm

Satire

I was just pointing out that damn near anything can kill you nowadays with a bit of tongue in cheek ofone or both of the two words above.



In a way, I agree with sureshot, and refer to my earlier post, "The Lord Works in Mysterious Ways". Chew on that one awhile..........

imported post

curtm1911 wrote:

Two words, you can look up their meanings yourself; IE: Research........

Sarcasm

Satire

I was just pointing out that damn near anything can kill you nowadays with a bit of tongue in cheek ofone or both of the two words above.

Click to expand...

Oh, please.





See, also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

imported post

HankT wrote:

C'mon. Around 10,000 people get shot to death every year. How many get killed with rocks?

2?

Click to expand...

Over 40,000 people get killed by automobiles per year... what's your point? The more something kills, the more dangerous it is?

imported post

^Or maybe he was making the point that as much as you'd like to make the "well anything can kill" argument, firearms kill MUCH easier than a stick.

sureshot wrote:

LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION!!!!

Click to expand...

Are you a doctor?

imported post

Someone should do a late-term abortion on this thread. You had to know this would go awry, Hank, gun angle or no.

-ljp

imported post

compmanio365 wrote:

As it was said, the guy was a prohibited person and had a gun ANYWAYS. All those gun control laws sure are doing a good job, aren't they? The guy at the abortion clinic should have been armed to defend himself.....but then again, the type of people working at such places precludes any self defense in most cases.

Click to expand...

I missed that part.

Here's a later report of Roeder's prior record. I cannot tell if he was a felon just prior to the shooting. I certainly hope he was an unqualified gun owner. If he wasn't....that would be very bad.


I agree that Tiller should have been armedor had some other means of protectinghimself and his wife. What washe thinking?!




JUNE 1, 2009

Tiller Killing Suspect's Background Is Investigated
STEPHANIE SIMON and MIGUEL BUSTILLO
WICHITA, Kan. -- The man police say is a suspect in the killing of late-term abortion doctor George Tiller belongs to a small circle of activists who believe that killing an abortion provider is justified because it saves the lives of babies.

Scott Roeder, 51 years old, was arrested Sunday afternoon, hours after Dr. Tiller was shot in the foyer of the Reformed Lutheran Church in Wichita. Dr. Tiller, who was 67, had been handing out church bulletins to latecomers at the 10 a.m. service. The church didn't employ any security, and authorities said they were unaware of any recent threats against Dr. Tiller.

Sedgwick County District Attorney Nola Foulston said at an afternoon press conference Monday that charges against Mr. Roeder may not be filed today as the investigation continues. "We will not be rushed," she said. "Everything will be reviewed."

At the time of his arrest, police said, Mr. Roeder was driving a vehicle that matched the description and license plate of the car that witnesses said the gunman drove away in after firing the single fatal shot.

Mr. Roeder had past ties to an extremist militia organization and had been previously charged in Kansas with criminal use of explosives after authorities discovered bomb-making equipment, a military rifle and a gas mask in his car trunk during a 1996 traffic stop. He was convicted of the bomb charges in 1996, but the conviction for criminal use of explosives was later reversed on appeal after his defense attorney argued it had been the result of an illegal search, state records show....

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124386263588872149.html

imported post

AWDstylez wrote:

^Or maybe he was making the point that as much as you'd like to make the "well anything can kill" argument, firearms kill MUCH easier than a stick.

sureshot wrote:

LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION!!!!

Click to expand...

Are you a doctor?

Click to expand...

Anyone who has studied basic high school biology (at least the biology they taught when Iwas in school)knows that as soon as the egg is fertilized... life begins. The DNA of the blastocyst is unique and it begins to grow.

Conception: the act of becoming pregnant; fertilization of an ovum by a spermatozoon.

Whether you value that life is a completely different matter. But you cannot argue when life begins. Most on your side gave up arguing when life begins and started arguing "When does it become human?" Which is just as silly since it starts off human... just in an early stage of development.

As for the killing of the abortion doc... it was wrong. It was murder. The guy who killed him should be put away for the rest of his life... if not given the death penalty. In spite of how much I loathed the Abortion doc... there are other ways of dealing with these people.

imported post

Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

AWDstylez wrote:

^Or maybe he was making the point that as much as you'd like to make the "well anything can kill" argument, firearms kill MUCH easier than a stick.

sureshot wrote:

LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION!!!!

Click to expand...

Are you a doctor?

Click to expand...

Anyone who has studied basic high school biology (at least the biology they taught when Iwas in school)knows that as soon as the egg is fertilized... life begins. The DNA of the blastocyst is unique and it begins to grow.

Conception: the act of becoming pregnant; fertilization of an ovum by a spermatozoon.

Whether you value that life is a completely different matter. But you cannot argue when life begins. Most on your side gave up arguing when life begins and started arguing "When does it become human?" Which is just as silly since it starts off human... just in an early stage of development.

As for the killing of the abortion doc... it was wrong. It was murder. The guy who killed him should be put away for the rest of his life... if not given the death penalty. In spite of how much I loathed the Abortion doc... there are other ways of dealing with these people.

Click to expand...

I believe the same but also this man didn't just kill tiny babies, he killed up to and beyond 26 week old babies. Don't think babies can live at 26 weeks ?

Ask this Mom

Tamika Pressley and son, Anthony Ramos at 2 months of age. Anthony was born at 26 weeks.

imported post

Legba wrote:

Someone should do a late-term abortion on this thread. You had to know this would go awry, Hank, gun angle or no.

Click to expand...

I really didn't think it would be that bad. It had a gun, a perp, a church, a self-defense event....

The politics and theology don't have anything to do with the tactical aspects of the story. I figured a couple of guys would comment on that but I didn't think they'd get all wrapped up in it.

I think I underestimated the presence of a moderator variable.

I'm still worried mostly by the possibility that Roeder legally owned his gun. I'm praying [jes kiddin'] that it wasn't the case.

imported post

Well, if his conviction was overturned on appeal, that shouldn't count against him, technically (unless he had other legal baggage not covered). Convictions make you a prohibited person, not arrests. I've been indicted and I'm legal. The system works if you work it. God bless America.

ed - sorry, that sounds terribly glib in the context of this story. Just speaking about my own experience with the courts.

-ljp

imported post

Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:

Conception: the act of becoming pregnant; fertilization of an ovum by a spermatozoon.

Whether you value that life is a completely different matter. But you cannot argue when life begins. Most on your side gave up arguing when life begins and started arguing "When does it become human?" Which is just as silly since it starts off human... just in an early stage of development.

Click to expand...

No, it's not that simple or abortion wouldn't even be legal.

"Life" and " a person" are vastly different things. Are your sperm people too? They're alive. Single cells are alive. Would that constitute killing? Should anti-bacterial soup be illegal?

Trust me, I'm 100% with you. I'm just pointing out another instance of a someone on this board making a black and white issue out of something that is anything but.

imported post

Legba wrote:

Well, if his conviction was overturned on appeal, that shouldn't count against him, technically (unless he had other legal baggage not covered). Convictions make you a prohibited person, not arrests. I've been indicted and I'm legal. The system works if you work it. God bless America.

... Just speaking about my own experience with the courts.

Click to expand...

Yep, the system is designed to work for the innocent and the guilty. We (and Roeder) are entitled to the adaptable components of the legal system. I recall that we had one high profile OCDOer get convicted for obstruction of justice. But through a judicial action involving successful completion of a parole assignment, the conviction was changed to a "not guilty" adjudication. Pretty good deal.

What appears on the record is what counts. Roeder was actually guilty of having explosives but that's not what appears on the record.

Hopefully, he had some other disqualifying offenses. That way, we won't have to answer the rather obvious accusation that any LAC with a gun can flip out and cold-bloodedly off some guy whose religion/politics he doesn't like.

I hate it when the antis make that accusation. I especially hate it when they're right!

imported post

I think a lot of separate things are getting conflated as this is jumping around.

Roeder was wrong in what he did. The law will call it 1st degree premeditated murder. Even if in Roeder's mind it was justified and he sees it as he acted to save the lives of untold numbers of babies, it at best makes him a vigilante and still a murderer. Agree with him on some level or not at all, he still committed murder (now if he had barged into the operating room during a late term abortion procedure and killed Tiller it would open up another whole discussion of immediate defense of the life of another human being so fortunately for the sanity of the forum that is not what happened).

If Tiller had been armed and had successfully defended himself he would have been within his rights to do so and I would have offered that opinion of the matter. I wouldn't be cheering, but I would certainly support his right.

I do feel badly for his children and grandchildren as they had no choice as to whom their father/grandfather was and it sounds like they loved him and will hurt and grieve for him. The widow I have less empathy for as she made a choice as it was her choice as to with whom she spent her life.

As to the man I have little sympathy. One could be snarky and say that he was merely the victim of a very late term abortion. Regardless, this man traded on the misery of others and the destruction of human life. I think that one day science will drive human kind to deem that once distinctly identifiable new human DNA is created that it is a life (isn't that the basis we use for determining life exists on other planets?) but I do not expect that to occur in my lifetime.

imported post

Legba wrote:

Someone should do a late-term abortion on this thread. 

Click to expand...

+1

imported post

insane.kangaroo wrote:

I only wish the doctor was carrying a gun, I'd rather see "anti-abortionist killed in plot to kill a medical doctor."

Click to expand...

+1

Justice FTW.

imported post

Kharma. The monster had it coming.

imported post

marshaul wrote:

insane.kangaroo wrote:

I only wish the doctor was carrying a gun, I'd rather see "anti-abortionist killed in plot to kill a medical doctor."

Click to expand...

+1

Justice FTW.

Click to expand...

It is truly a sad day in the United States of America . The murder of 60,000 partial birth 9th month late term elective abortions and the murder of a doctor with a 35 year practice .

imported post

He was a baby killer, in my opinion. I'm gladhe's dead.