knight_308
Regular Member
imported post
I took the family out to Famous Dave's for dinner on Friday. I was open carrying. I didn't really have a choice since I wasn't planning on going out and didn't have an overshirt or anything to conceal with other than a jacket (and it was in the 80s).
We had just gotten our food, when, as seems to always be the case, my daughter had to go use the restroom. I finished up a rib, wiped my hands, and carried her into the restaurant, carefully avoiding the RCW 9.41.300(1)(d) area (ie. the bar area).
We had to wait for the one stall to become available, so we were talking and hugging, doing the daddy-daughter thing. Several people cycled through, but I didn't pay them much mind and kept my eyes mostly trained on the stall - it was a small space.
Finally we get in, daughter does her business, and as we're washing our hands an employee (I assumed the manager - he was wearing a button-down shirt) comes up and washes his hands in the sink next to us. He says, "I have to tell you that we don't allow firearms in the restaurant. It's posted."
Me: "Huh, I didn't see any posting."
Him: "It's up front by the bar, besides it's illegal here; we sell alcohol."
Me: "Oh, I see. Well technically I'd only be *illegal* if I went into the area posted by the bar. Now, don't get me wrong, as a private property owner you can certainly ask me to leave and I'd be required to do so. It's just not *illegal* for me to have a gun in this part of the restaurant."
Him: "I'll show you on the way up front."
Me: "Can I at least finish my meal?"
Him: "Can't you just lock it in the car?"
Me: "Not really." I said this realizing that lots of people had seen me already. If I went to the car, locked it up, and came back, there's the risk of theft if someone was feeling opportunistic.
So we headed up front, the question of whether I'd be able to eat my rapidly cooling meal weighing on my mind. I knew that I wasn't going to end up arrested or anything, but it's still a little tense during these things. When we get to the front, what do my wondering eyes see?
Yeah, it's just the typical bar posting. The guy was speaking out of ignorance.
Me: "So, can I get a copy of your business card or your manager's card so I can follow up on this? I'd really like to get things clarified."
Him: "Hang on, I'll get him."
Hmm, OK, so this guy isn't the manager, maybe we have a chance here. Besides, they _thought_ I was doing something illegal and didn't call the cops, so maybe they're cool, just ignorant of the law. My girl began pestering me to go back to the table, but she was good when I told her we needed to wait and talk to this man first.
Jeff, the manager, comes out, and says, "So you had a question about the gun?"
Me: "Yeah, I think there's some confusion. In a legal sense, I'm only barred from carrying in the are of the restaurant posted as being illegal for under-21s. Now, as I told the other gentleman, as a private property owner you can certainly tell me to get out, and I'll abide by that, but there's no *legal* reason for you to do so."
Jeff: "Well it's posted over there."
Me: "Well let's go take a look."
We walk over to the POSTED signs and I show him RCW 9.41.300(1)(a). I think it was the first time he'd actually read the sign. It was like a lightbulb went on.
Jeff: "Well, I'll need to talk to my area manager to see how he feels about it."
Me: "That's all I could ask for. Am I OK to finish my meal?"
Jeff: "Sure."
Me: "Thank you for your time."
About the time we were looking at the bar signs my eleven year old had come over and was freaking out a little bit. He doesn't really seem to do well in confrontation. It wasn't crying or anything, more just being hyper and mouthy. He knew enough to be quiet while I was having my adult conversation though.
Back at the table, I was just reaching for my cooling meal, getting my daughter settled back in, and filling the wife in on what happened when we get approached again by a gentleman in his late-40s, or early-50s. Here we go again.
Him: "Are you law enfocement?"
Me (casting sideways glances at my chicken): "No."
Him: "Do you have a permit to carry that?"
Me: "Yes and no. You don't need a permit to open carry in Washington. Only if you carry it in a vehicle or concealed. The state constitution, I forget the cite, permits it." I fished out one of my OCDO business cards and found the cite, Article I, Section 24 of the Washington State Constitution.
Him: "I'm federal law enforcement and I've never heard of that before. So this is a keep and bear arms thing."
Wife (not quite following why he wouldn't know): "Federal law enforcement?"
Him (whips out his badge. Looks authentic): "Homeland Security," he points to the sky, "in the air."
I went on to briefly explain how while I'm something of a newcomer to the movement there's been a core of people who have been fighting to get the legality of OC recognized for the last few years, successfully. I explained how most local law enforcement was totally aware that we were OK. He responded that he was surprised to see it when I was in the bathroom, but that I clearly was familiar with carrying a gun (I guess I'm used to OCing now
). There were some other minor things discussed, but eventually he left, we finished our meal to the dirty looks of some of the other patrons, and left.
All in all not a terrible encounter. More nerve-wracking than anything - I don't like getting put on the spot. Still, I knew the law, stood my ground within the law, and it worked out OK.
Now, I need to follow up with a letter to the Famous Dave's management. Guess I better go surfing the archives to find some samples.
I took the family out to Famous Dave's for dinner on Friday. I was open carrying. I didn't really have a choice since I wasn't planning on going out and didn't have an overshirt or anything to conceal with other than a jacket (and it was in the 80s).
We had just gotten our food, when, as seems to always be the case, my daughter had to go use the restroom. I finished up a rib, wiped my hands, and carried her into the restaurant, carefully avoiding the RCW 9.41.300(1)(d) area (ie. the bar area).
We had to wait for the one stall to become available, so we were talking and hugging, doing the daddy-daughter thing. Several people cycled through, but I didn't pay them much mind and kept my eyes mostly trained on the stall - it was a small space.
Finally we get in, daughter does her business, and as we're washing our hands an employee (I assumed the manager - he was wearing a button-down shirt) comes up and washes his hands in the sink next to us. He says, "I have to tell you that we don't allow firearms in the restaurant. It's posted."
Me: "Huh, I didn't see any posting."
Him: "It's up front by the bar, besides it's illegal here; we sell alcohol."
Me: "Oh, I see. Well technically I'd only be *illegal* if I went into the area posted by the bar. Now, don't get me wrong, as a private property owner you can certainly ask me to leave and I'd be required to do so. It's just not *illegal* for me to have a gun in this part of the restaurant."
Him: "I'll show you on the way up front."
Me: "Can I at least finish my meal?"
Him: "Can't you just lock it in the car?"
Me: "Not really." I said this realizing that lots of people had seen me already. If I went to the car, locked it up, and came back, there's the risk of theft if someone was feeling opportunistic.
So we headed up front, the question of whether I'd be able to eat my rapidly cooling meal weighing on my mind. I knew that I wasn't going to end up arrested or anything, but it's still a little tense during these things. When we get to the front, what do my wondering eyes see?
Yeah, it's just the typical bar posting. The guy was speaking out of ignorance.
Me: "So, can I get a copy of your business card or your manager's card so I can follow up on this? I'd really like to get things clarified."
Him: "Hang on, I'll get him."
Hmm, OK, so this guy isn't the manager, maybe we have a chance here. Besides, they _thought_ I was doing something illegal and didn't call the cops, so maybe they're cool, just ignorant of the law. My girl began pestering me to go back to the table, but she was good when I told her we needed to wait and talk to this man first.
Jeff, the manager, comes out, and says, "So you had a question about the gun?"
Me: "Yeah, I think there's some confusion. In a legal sense, I'm only barred from carrying in the are of the restaurant posted as being illegal for under-21s. Now, as I told the other gentleman, as a private property owner you can certainly tell me to get out, and I'll abide by that, but there's no *legal* reason for you to do so."
Jeff: "Well it's posted over there."
Me: "Well let's go take a look."
We walk over to the POSTED signs and I show him RCW 9.41.300(1)(a). I think it was the first time he'd actually read the sign. It was like a lightbulb went on.
Jeff: "Well, I'll need to talk to my area manager to see how he feels about it."
Me: "That's all I could ask for. Am I OK to finish my meal?"
Jeff: "Sure."
Me: "Thank you for your time."
About the time we were looking at the bar signs my eleven year old had come over and was freaking out a little bit. He doesn't really seem to do well in confrontation. It wasn't crying or anything, more just being hyper and mouthy. He knew enough to be quiet while I was having my adult conversation though.
Back at the table, I was just reaching for my cooling meal, getting my daughter settled back in, and filling the wife in on what happened when we get approached again by a gentleman in his late-40s, or early-50s. Here we go again.
Him: "Are you law enfocement?"
Me (casting sideways glances at my chicken): "No."
Him: "Do you have a permit to carry that?"
Me: "Yes and no. You don't need a permit to open carry in Washington. Only if you carry it in a vehicle or concealed. The state constitution, I forget the cite, permits it." I fished out one of my OCDO business cards and found the cite, Article I, Section 24 of the Washington State Constitution.
Him: "I'm federal law enforcement and I've never heard of that before. So this is a keep and bear arms thing."
Wife (not quite following why he wouldn't know): "Federal law enforcement?"
Him (whips out his badge. Looks authentic): "Homeland Security," he points to the sky, "in the air."
I went on to briefly explain how while I'm something of a newcomer to the movement there's been a core of people who have been fighting to get the legality of OC recognized for the last few years, successfully. I explained how most local law enforcement was totally aware that we were OK. He responded that he was surprised to see it when I was in the bathroom, but that I clearly was familiar with carrying a gun (I guess I'm used to OCing now
). There were some other minor things discussed, but eventually he left, we finished our meal to the dirty looks of some of the other patrons, and left.All in all not a terrible encounter. More nerve-wracking than anything - I don't like getting put on the spot. Still, I knew the law, stood my ground within the law, and it worked out OK.
Now, I need to follow up with a letter to the Famous Dave's management. Guess I better go surfing the archives to find some samples.
