imported post
grishnav wrote:
It's not that I hate cops, it's that I love freedom, and cops hate* freedom, passionately.
*Cops do love their own freedom
So you paint the entire profession by the actions of that very small fraction of a percentage who exceed their authority or disgrace the badge. Yes, that
is hate.
It is every much hatred as racism and believing all of a given skin color are equally culpable based on the actions of a few of that color. Simple, biased, irrational
hatred. Any attempt to deny this is simply a futile attempt to rationalize or justify the hatred.
May I ask your profession? Has anyone in that profession ever made a mistake or brought disgrace to the position? If so, then by your "logic", you are every bit as responsible and culpable for their actions as they are.
grishnav wrote:
And why not? Is it somehow less dangerous to die by falling off a tall building or getting chewed up in a grinder than it is to die by gunshot? Are you somehow less dead because you splatter on the ground after a 50 foot fall than dieing of an infection from a gunshot to the shoulder? Is it somehow more noble to die while stealing value from others at gunpoint under the guise protecting them than it is to die while creating value for others by working on airplanes or building buildings?
Or is it just hero worship. A cop's death is more important to 911boss simply by virtue of the fact that it was a cop that died.
That's the kind of thinking that blinds you to reality. And being blind to reality leads to bad choices and stupid posts on the interwebs.
Call it hero worship if you wish. I prefer to see it as respect. As cold as it may seem, yes some lives ARE more important than others. It might not be "fair", but it is also not a distinction made with malice, disregard, or hate. It is simply a cold, hard reality.
"Reality" is what society says it is. You may certainly disagree, but your disagreement does not change reality. Those who are not in reality are in fantasy, and it is those folks (folks like you) who make most of the stupid posts on the interweb.
When is the last time you saw media coverage of a Garbageman's funeral? A cab drivers? When did schools and businesses in a community shut down after their mailman died?
Yes, every death is a tragedy on some level. Even the death of a criminal, but most assuredly, all deaths are not equal just as all lives are not equal.
Compare the respect shown by not only those in public service, but by the
public when there is a firefighter or police officer killed in the line of duty. That is society affirming the value placed on those who give that service, that is society paying honor and respect to someone who accepted a duty few would, and even fewer are qualified to. That
is reality.
Try as you might, you can't make it go away, you can't discount it, your crazy ideals and Utopian desires won't change it. Yes some lives ARE more important than others, welcome to the REAL world.
grishnav wrote:
This particular map, for those not quite paying 100% attention such as 911 boss here, deals with SWAT raids; specifically, botched ones.
For this subset of data, 25 cops were killed or injured, but 43 innocent people were killed. That means in swat raids (or, at least, botched ones, of which there are hundreds), almost two people died for every single cop killed or injured. Unstated is how many innocent people were injured, how many family pets were killed, how much reputation destruction occurred (destroying careers and the like), and how much money was lost to property damage in the raids.
Oh, so you can play it fast and loose with the numbers, and use a "subset of data" to make the wide ranging assertion that:
grishnav wrote:
You're more likely to die in a hail of misdirected gunfire from a cop than a cop is to die of intentionally directed gunfire of a criminal. And they need to remove more of your protections to make themselves safer?
But you expect others to stay focused and within the scope of the information cited. Tell you what, you made the initial assertion, find a legitimate source to support it.
Here is some of your "math". More citizens are killed than police, and non-police people kill more people than police do. So everyone would be safer if everyone was a police officer. It makes as much sense (actually more) than your twisted and ill conceived "logic"
grishnav wrote:
You can't compare patrol cops killed on patrol to innocents killed in SWAT raids. You need to compare it to innocents killed by patrol cops to see who's more in danger.
Unfortunately, such statistics aren't yet available to my knowledge.
Ok, so lets make these comparisons:
-Number of (non-criminal) citizens killed by cops to number of (non-criminal) citizens killed by (non-police) criminals.
-Number of criminal citizens killed by cops to number of (non-criminal) citizens killed by cops
I'll bet any amount that any stats you find will weigh heavily on the side of cops posing less risk to citizens as criminals do, and cops posing a higher risk to criminals then cops do to citizens.
That my poor web-tard means that society
benefits by having cops around even with the occasional error, mistake, or even rouge criminal act by police officers. So evidently police do
"create value" much more than you are willing to give them credit for.
If you were to wipe the blind hatred of the profession from your eyes, instead of making assertions that they are, as a group, focused on
"stealing value from others at gunpoint under the guise protecting them" You just might manage to escape your fantasy and join the rest of the world in reality.
Of course that would require you recognizing and acknowledging you are wrong and I imagine that is every bit as difficult for you as just honestly admitting that you hate cops.
grishnav wrote:
You can see how many people die per cop killed (something like 3-4 IIRC), but no way to know whether those shootings were justified or not
"No way to know whether those shootings were justified or not" :shock: Are you for real!?!
Every police shooting results in an investigation, whether internal, citizen review board, conducted by another agency, prosecutorial review, coroners inquest, etc. Yes, we DO know what ones are and are not justified.
I have no doubt you disagree and honestly believe your delusion, but my "believing" the sky is green doesn't make it so. It would certainly seem to require a lot of assumptions and innumerable conspiracies for anyone to believe a fraction of what you present as "reality".
grishnav wrote:
So yeah, you can call me crazy, accuse me of smoking crack, or whatever. But the numbers just don't bear out justification for the cost, both of human life and dollars.
Again, I have no doubt you truly believe this. Thankfully you are not in charge (apparently) of anything of significance in society. That, coupled with no ability to present a rational or factual argument to convince others of your fantasies, means that reality, as the rest of us know it, is safe.
Heck, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that the root of your hate is from being DQ'd on the psych eval portion of a Police hiring process....
