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Thread: Double Action

  1. #1
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Double Action is a gun store and range in Oakland County that I've been going to for quite some time now, that has been recommended to me by numerous people. Every time I go in there however, it seems like I'm left with something to be fuming about. I've finally gotten to the point to where I feel not only the need to share my personal experiences, but also I personally have decided to completely boycott ever going to this store again.

    Once I joined the Open Carry community, I was a bit nervous to begin open carrying. My friend brought me to the site, and insisted that we should OC sometime. We decided to OC to Double Action for some fun at the range. I figured since every employee there was OC'ing, hey, we'd fit right in, right? Wrong. I got nothing but stares when I was in there by ALL of the employees. Finally one of the women behind the counter demanded to see my LEO badge. I informed her that I was not LEO or a security officer, and stated that OC is legal in Michigan. She then informed me that OC is against their policy unless you are a LEO, then told me to read their rules posted on the wall. I did so, and found absolutely nothing about OC. When I mentioned this to her, I was asked to leave.

    I decided that since DA was the closest gun range to me, I'd give it another whirl, and this time just conceal my firearm since I have a CPL anyway. I went to purchase some ammo from them since they're a gunstore, and one of the only places that regularly stocks ammunition. I figured I'd just purchase a few boxes for home defense, and also planned on getting some better personal protection ammunition, considering i'm only carrying WWB JHP's at the moment. I was informed that all ammunition sold at their store now must be consumed on their firing range, with no exceptions. Therefore, unless I planned on using that personal protection ammunition on their range, I was SOL. I left the place shaking my head once again in frustration.

    I recently decided to buy a Glock 23. I called various places, pricing out guns. Of course, I called DA. They informed me that they didn't have any Glock 23's, or Glock 23's with nightsights, and hung up on me. I called back and informed them that they hung up on me, and that I wasn't done speaking yet, and wanted to know if they could order a Glock 23 for me. He simply stated "No," then once again hung up on me.

    Unfortunately, I don't know what else to do other than inform people of the negative experiences I've had at this place. I know they have two very long ranges for distance, and their ranges are good, but personally, if I'm going to be treated this way every time I have an encounter with the store, I'll just go to another range.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    You need to try out the Pit in Lapeer.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  3. #3
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    That is too bad. However there are many gunshop/ranges that are like that ... I don't know why ... I would say the best thing to do is vote with your feet IE go elsewhere.. Join a gunclub and forget the indoor range scene.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Their policy also pertains to LE and Security Guards.

    http://www.doubleaction.com/ccw.html


    Oops!!!

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    I've also had nothing but bad experiences with Double Action. They don't allow open carry, They're prices are very high, and their customer service is terrible.

    I also swore I would never do business there again.

  6. #6
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    OK I understand where they are coming from ... but if they are not going to allow you to buy ammo for personal protection to take home... WTF?

    Also how does my shirttail make my pistol safer?? All they have to say is all loaded SD pistols must remain in the holster and if you want to try another holster go to your car unload and bring it in with a box or case. Simple and will work for any reasonable folks... Wingnuts will screw up no matter what!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  7. #7
    Regular Member FatboyCykes's Avatar
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    I've shot there in the past, but due to the terrible rules and attitudes, I haven't been there for shopping or range time in a few months. No intentions of going there for anything in the future either.

  8. #8
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Odd. They have those concealed rules on their website, but not posted in the building. The lady claimed that only security or LEO's could OC; their site says otherwise.

    I did in fact check out a sportsman club for outdoor shooting, just today.

    Unfortunately, the Detroit Sportsman Congress wants $210 for first time members as an annual fee, and I only go shooting about once a month, so that's pretty pricey, considering Michigan has winter 5 months out of the year.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    I have yet to hear anything good about this place, I don't know why people would spend money there. There are other places to spend your hard earned money.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    If anyone lives in SW michigan check out the Coloma Rod and Gun Club ... 40.00 + 12 hrs service to the club for a years membership. Also you must attend at least 6 of the monthly meetings. www.colomarodandgunclub.com
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  11. #11
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    I've heared the same complaint about DA for the last decade.

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    the500kid wrote:
    I've heared the same complaint about DA for the last decade.
    Same. I used to live near there and went there to shoot just out of convenience, until I learned that there are GOOD gun shops in SE michigan.

    I'm rather partial to Top Gun down in Taylor, now, or Target Sports in Royal Oak.

    -jp

  13. #13
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    sneak wrote:
    the500kid wrote:
    I've heared the same complaint about DA for the last decade.
    Same. I used to live near there and went there to shoot just out of convenience, until I learned that there are GOOD gun shops in SE michigan.

    I'm rather partial to Top Gun down in Taylor, now, or Target Sports in Royal Oak.

    -jp
    I've actually bought all of my firearms from Target Sports.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    malignity wrote:
    I've actually bought all of my firearms from Target Sports.
    Too expensive for me.

    I have bought guns at Lapeer Military Surplus, Dunhams, and Guns Galore. Guns Galore is nice for prices, but has among the worst customer service I've ever seen at any retail store. If you get lucky and they get around to helping you, you can get ridiculously good deals there.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  15. #15
    Regular Member dfox's Avatar
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    sneak wrote:
    the500kid wrote:
    I've heared the same complaint about DA for the last decade.
    Same. I used to live near there and went there to shoot just out of convenience, until I learned that there are GOOD gun shops in SE michigan.

    I'm rather partial to Top Gun down in Taylor, now, or Target Sports in Royal Oak.

    -jp
    Top Gun - They stoped me and my wife from going in while we were OC'ing. And they are currently only selling ammo for use at the range.
    Dave
    http://www.survivalfox.com/
    "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom". - John F. Kennedy, former U.S. President

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    Next time you're in DA ask to talk to Martin... he's a real good guy. Allen actually owns the place... he's a pretty good guy too if you can catch him when he's not busy.

    Rules are rules... private property has rights. I do agree, however, that not being able to open carry in a gun store seems kind of silly. Especially when all of the employees are doing it.

    When I go there, I just pull my shirt over or something. If it's not long enough, then I disconnect the mag and shove the pistol in my pocket. It's not a big deal for me.

    The ammo thing, however, would irk me. I haven't bought ammo in awhile... and any ammo I've bought from there has been consumed on the premises (save for one box of defensive ammo a few months back, but I also bought it with a couple boxes of plinking ammo). My advice? If they say ALL ammo has to be consumed, are they really going to run a brass and ammo check on you before you leave? Doubt it. If you're going to shoot, buy what you need to shoot... take the rest home with you. if you're not going to shoot, then I agree the whole policy seems funny.

    Again... talk to Martin or Allen. If they don't square things up, then I would suggest what others have said: Vote with your feet.

  17. #17
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    Veritas wrote:
    if you're not going to shoot, then I agree the whole policy seems funny.
    Regarding Top Gun, they have the same ammo policy - buy it there, shoot it there. They also have per-customer limits.

    Considering the fact that they've sent out several emails to their newsletter list in the last few weeks (which, for some reason, is always in all-caps, Oprah-style) complaining about the rising costs of ammo and opportunists that are "gouging" customers, it may be that their ability to purchase ammo at what they consider to be reasonable prices is limited.

    If you consider for a moment that they might make more on service/support than on ammo sales (they do rent machine guns, as well as handguns, both of which require ammo in stock for them to collect their rental fees), it makes sense that they may wish to decline selling ammo for non-in-store use, as in-store use of ammo (presuming their supply is limited, due to their own attitude regarding what is expensive and what is not) profits them more in the long term.

    Me, I'd just pick a profit margin percentage, stick to it, and continue to keep all ammo stocked in as many quantities that are salable, confident in my knowledge that gouging isn't occurring (other than perhaps on the part of the distributors or industry as a whole). Might this mean that one or two ammo-hoarders come in and buy up all the cheap ammo in a day, raising prices across the board for the other customers? Yes. But we don't live in a vacuum, and I've never understood why people expect prices in retail stores to be carved in stone from day to day or week to week.

    Or maybe I'm just too embedded in the commodity-based eBay generation to understand.

    -jp

  18. #18
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    sneak wrote:
    Veritas wrote:
    if you're not going to shoot, then I agree the whole policy seems funny.
    Regarding Top Gun, they have the same ammo policy - buy it there, shoot it there. They also have per-customer limits.

    Considering the fact that they've sent out several emails to their newsletter list in the last few weeks (which, for some reason, is always in all-caps, Oprah-style) complaining about the rising costs of ammo and opportunists that are "gouging" customers, it may be that their ability to purchase ammo at what they consider to be reasonable prices is limited.

    If you consider for a moment that they might make more on service/support than on ammo sales (they do rent machine guns, as well as handguns, both of which require ammo in stock for them to collect their rental fees), it makes sense that they may wish to decline selling ammo for non-in-store use, as in-store use of ammo (presuming their supply is limited, due to their own attitude regarding what is expensive and what is not) profits them more in the long term.

    Me, I'd just pick a profit margin percentage, stick to it, and continue to keep all ammo stocked in as many quantities that are salable, confident in my knowledge that gouging isn't occurring (other than perhaps on the part of the distributors or industry as a whole). Might this mean that one or two ammo-hoarders come in and buy up all the cheap ammo in a day, raising prices across the board for the other customers? Yes. But we don't live in a vacuum, and I've never understood why people expect prices in retail stores to be carved in stone from day to day or week to week.

    Or maybe I'm just too embedded in the commodity-based eBay generation to understand.

    -jp
    Good summation. Thinking it over, it makes a lot of sense. Profit margins and all. With the "ammo crisis" (media headline patent pending) in full swing, it makes sense that gun ranges are probably getting smacked around by people stockpiling bullets; making it next to impossible for them to remain stocked for customers who want to actually use the range.

    Again, this is all the more reason to talk to your dealers and sellers before you write them off. It took me a few years of spinning my wheels in the mud, but I eventually learned that a good one on one conversation can solve many dilemmas. Rules are generally created to prevent rampant abuse... but rules can also sometimes be bent if it's understood that you're not an abuser. Said another way, I'd be willing to wager that if you're a regular customer, or if you're planning to buy a box or two to keep after firing at the range, that most folks won't give you a hard time.

    The open carry thing though... that's just a house rule that probably has nothing to do with profitability. However there might be some purpose behind it that we're not considering... especially when you consider that most gun ranges are in uniform with this position. That's another thing I've learned... sometimes there are reasons for things that we don't consider when we're sitting on the other side of the table. Personally, I can't think of a reason why they would disallow it... but there might be a purpose for it. Again... something that might be brought up during a one on one discussion.

  19. #19
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    when ever i shoot there i just get 100 rds and only shoot 50rds, and take 50 home. They will sell personal protection ammo if they have it.

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