ghostrider wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
the500kid wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
I'm at the point now where I won't even stop until an officer TELLS me (not asks) to stop. A simple "No thanks, I'm busy." should suffice.
What the usual reaction you get when you tell the LEO "No thanks, I'm busy" ?
I'll tell you when it happens.
I expect that the very next thing that'll happen is that they'll compel me to stop. At which point, they MUST have Reasonable Articulable Suspicion to have stopped me.
The first thing out of my mouth will be notifying them that I'm carrying concealed (if I am), then I'll say "Since you compelled me to stop, you must have had reasonable articulable suspicion to have done so. What's your RAS for stopping me, officer?"
If he has none, then I'll respond "Then I'm sure you wont mind if I go about my business."
If he won't let you go at that point, then he's committing a federal felony (abuse of power under color of law), and violating your 4th amendment rights, which gives you the power to sue for damages.
Be careful with this. I don't think they have to tell you anything, let alone what their RS/PC is. However, if they tell you they are not detaining you... then they are not detaining you. That doesn't mean that they will just let you walk away. Remember, some of these officers are going to go to criminal lengths to infringe your rights. The officer in Ohio told the OC'er that he wasn't being detained, and also that he wasn't free to go. How we handle each encounter is up to each individual to decide. Ultimately, you are the one who is going to deal with the potential repercussions.
First....to correct the red text, it's
Title 18, Sec 242 USC "Deprivation of rights under color of law" and according to the punishment schedule, it only a misdemeanor unless or until actual 'bodily injury' occurs.
Second... Don't
ASK if you are free to go....
ESTABLISH that you are:
Am I under arrest? Open the bid with the highest card as they must 'trump' you to retain authority. I dare say 99.9% of the time this will catch them off guard and they will respond in the negative. This does two things:
1: If you
ARE under arrest, you now
know to STFU to protect yourself.
2: If you are
NOT under arrest,
you have established such through their own statements, and just trumped any future claims of 'resisting arrest' as you peacefully walk away (after the following).
Am I being detained? Same as above....
establish through their own statements that you are
NOT being detained. If they indicate that you ARE being detained,
DEMAND RAS. Do not relent. It would seem to be genereal consensus that they are not required to articulate their suspicion to YOU, just that they have it for the judge, but I maintain that if they truly do have RAS then it should be no problem to voice to
ME it in the instant matter in order for me to know that they are not playing on (my) ignorance and trying to trick (me) into voluntarily surrendering my rights secured by the fourth and fifth.
If they indicate that you are NOT being detained, do not
ASK if you are free to leave...make it a statement that you
ARE leaving:
"Thank you.
Having established through your own statements (Emphasise that line!), that I am
NOT under arrest
NOR being detained I am terminating this encounter and departing forthwith (or 'leaving immediately' if that more natural to your speach patterns). I leave you in peace, and bid you good day."
Then turn and
WALK. Any action on their part that hinders your free movement from that point on is a direct
CRIMINAL violation of 18USC sec 242. Remember....recorders are your friends.
I have had folks say that the whole "departing forthwith" and "I leave you in peace" thing was a little over the top, but I wanted to include a formal statement to establish that I was offering no resistance to any exercise of
lawful authority but simply removing myself from their presence and the olde-tyme language pattern seemed to get the point across the best.
(caveat: do the research to determine if your state has a clearly defined 'stop and identify' statute. )
)
